Aoibheann

There was a quote from the back cover: It's not only the Windrunners; all the Radiants. Except, maybe, the "Skybreakers" without nahel bonds.

I'm for it. I certainly got the feeling Hesina's family didn't approve of Lirin. Hesina saying Lirin was pessimistic, etc. does not imply the meeting with her family didn't go poorly. I think it did go poorly, at least from Lirin's perspective.

Darkness/Nalan cares about upholding the law, regardless of right or wrong. He needs a justification for each death. This is why he quits chasing when Lift is pardoned. Syl makes a comment to Kaladin at one point to the effect of, "I'm not a high spren, I don't care about the law, only what is right." In Szeth he sees a blind follower. This frightens me. Odium has taught Szeth to hate - talk about lawful-evil!

Argent, I'm totally on board with the theory. In some ways it seems the extra ability may be unique to each surgebinder. The quote about Lightweavers (from Chapter 49 epigraph) This leads me to believe that the Shallan's ability to take memories is due to the synergy between her lightweaving, drawing abilities and her transformation.

Weren't we told somewhere that Elhokar had an honorblade?

@Peter - good to know you have friends, eh? I mean that in the, "we want to keep you on your toes" friends way.

So, to put the coin to rest, I asked Brandon at GenCon. It wasn't the coin. He didn't elaborate. He distracted me by telling me we get more cosmere info in WoR I'm kinda stumped on why else it could be that Joel doesn't become a rithmatist. I feel like he needs a debriefing, which new rithmatists probably get; otherwise he'll end up with PTSD from his shadowblaze encounter. We haven't seen any other inceptions, so we don't know if what Father Stewart did with Joel was different or not.

I've been thinking that the nine Heralds are now the Nine Fools. It would be better to convert them back to Heralds, but if they are more for the enemy than not...

Thanks for the link!

Indeed. They're probably trying to decide what to release... now that we're so close to WoR.

Wow! Now I want to kidnap my husband and force him to make a 3D model of the maps for the purposes of providing cross-sections... That may take a while since his teaching semester starts tonight. I will talk to him about it. (I haven't convinced him to read the books... I did convince him to go to Writing Excuses at GenCon - He went for Howard though, not Brandon.) For modeling purposes, would 3D be useful? or are we really only looking at the 2D cross-sections and .bmp files? (I'm confident in my abilities to contribute here.) What is the maximum size (pixels) of the .bmp file? I'd love to see what would happen if we tried to model a line across the Shattered Plains, through the Pure-Lake toward Shinovar.

I know what quote you're talking about and I interpreted it as "Ruin and Cultivation are not as far apart as you would think." Ruin is an intent toward decay which seems to naturally be a part of Cultivation. Cultivation seems much more balanced than Ruin is. I don't know that Cultivation and Odium would naturally get along though.

Thank you Isomere for posting the symbols! Much better than what I had found! Wow Bloodfalcon, I hadn't noticed that... I've read the book so many times I've lost count at this point and just did a re-read focusing on Shallan and missed it. That's a great find. If there are 3 ways to access the same/similar powers, I wonder if there is a third chart. Is the chart at the Palanaeum the Heraldic/surge chart, the cultivation/(not)void chart of this thread or something we haven't seen yet? How long will it take Shallan and Jasnah to realize they need this information? (Does Jasnah already know?)

I went to high school with a number of people who had the last name Tvrdy. I would have a hard time spelling it if I only heard the name. In fact, as I try to come up with alternate spellings, they would all have different pronunciations. Taverdy, tvirdy (close), eh.

@Shardlet - You're welcome! @ AG Rooster - Someone had a thread which I can't find at the moment (Anyone help me???) This thread tied together the front chart and back chart and point out that the surges on each were very similar with some rotation to the chart. If we assume that these charts show two different ways of accessing the same surges... @Moogle If Taravangian killing bunches of people to try to see the future is related to voidbinding, that's bad. I would say he's been corrupted. We don't know yet that he's a voidbinder, But I don't think he's related to Cultivation. @Bloodfalcon. - Lift claims Wyndle is a voidbringer, but Wyndle denies it, multiple times. I tend to believe the spren rather than the child who tells people she is 10 years old because any age over 10 is unlucky. I'm not saying Lift is stupid, I'm saying she's very superstitious and not well educated.

I read this eagerly on Thursday, but haven't had the chance to type up my thoughts until now. I've read through the thread, so I'm repeating something, but I want to note things I interpreted as X rather than Y. Wow. I had read some of the transcripts and the bits from the steel-hunt; it's interesting to see from the finished work. Impressions on first & second readings: Prologue: Jasnah has only been an avowed heretic since the feast? would she have done this if her Father were already dead? What happened between Jasnah & Amaram? The shadows = an attack. Darkness? maybe? (the sword was already unsheathed, he didn't unsheath it until Shadesmar - are shardblades different there?) Shadesmar nursery tales???? Who was she considering assassinating? why? Heralds - definitely! both of them. Who is the nervous Nellie if Darkness is Nalan? Jasnah knows so much about the Parshendi. Why does no one on the Shattered Plains seem to know this information? Did Gavilar hesitate (at feast and end) because he considered giving Jasnah the sphere? This is the drive to research the voidbringers... but it means she has a reason to think the parshendi are the voidbringers before she begins her research. Chapter 1 Is the "voice deep inside her" a spren? It "sounded" different than Syl's voice or Shallan's Cryptic. I'm still trying to take in all the info on spren and realmatics. Jasnah has had conversations with multiple spren??? How many? what types? Will returning a functional soulcaster cause Balat to join the Ghostbloods? I liked Danlan - what happened between her and Adolin? Is she still a clerk for Dalinar? Did this have to do with Sadeas' betrayal? Is her father even still alive? Jasnah says, "He is handsome and well acquainted with amiable discourse." What a horribly superficial way of describing your cousin. Shallan has no idea how marriage will affect her. It will be interesting to see how this develops. Given Jasnah's apparent antipathy toward men, she may have a hard time partnering with another surgebinder. Initial thought: Spanreeds work on water? - yes, it was probably in port the night before. Is the wind spren taunting Shallan only a wind spren? Will she see more spren now? How close is Rock to bonding a spren? Can KR bond with multiple spren? what's the limit? Nice work on Shallan's immersion. was the spren of the Santhid drawn to Shallan? Jasnah? Chapter 2: who will shave the bridgemen from the other bridges? based on the Eshonai reading, what kind of spren will Shen bind with? Rind is a great character - a good person for Kaladin to interact with. since Kaladin is holding a low level of stormlight, will Jasnah see him for what he is, right off? How will Dalinar react to no longer having a Cobalt Guard? etc?

It will be interesting to see if Kaladin's eyes begin to lighten with the low level of stormlight he's constantly holding. I like the sDNA argument for carrying to children, etc.

I believe Navani is supposed to bring Jasnah in on her conversations regarding Dalinar's visions. Dalinar wants Jasnah's input and involved Navani because Jasnah was not at the Shattered Plains. I am sure that Jasnah has shared more with her mother than she shared with Shallan on paper. Chances are that Navani knows the soulcaster is a fake. She may have even helped Jasnah create it. (How the *bleep* would you solder with one hand?)

@hoser - I'm with you. Jasnah has had some negative history with someone. My first thought on reading the WoR prologue was possibly Amaram. Perhaps it was even as simple as the two of them talking about what a potential relationship would look like. He wanted a really smart clerk, she wanted to research the world. This may have made her feel like the relationship would/could be akin to slavery. @Shardbearer - Jasnah could be dressing to uphold the image she wants others to perceive. Alethi culture does not seem to react well to those who dress beneath their station.

I also find it interesting that Lighteyed men can/do have clerks read to them. It's a bizarre path to scholarship, but it can be scholarship. Imagine all the people with Dyslexia/dysgraphia (insert LD here) who may function better with those limitations in place.

Perhaps I overstated the situation with the Nightwatcher = Cultivation comment. I hope I'm not guilty of being errorgant. Shardlet's theory is convincing.

There's only one quote I know which discusses Voidbinding (rather than the voidbringers): (page 285 kindle) The only person we've met who seems to be trying to divine the future is Taravangian. There is probably something missing from Kadash's version of Voidbinding. This is (I assume) corrupted by the Hierocracy.

The radiant/surge/Honor chart can be found at: http://coppermind.net/wiki/File:TWoK_Front_Endsheet.jpg The Cultivation chart (I'm going to start calling it this): http://coppermind.net/wiki/File:TWoK_Rear_Endsheet.jpg

Oooooh Gloom! I like that idea Elithanathile = Cultivation. It ties together beautifully. I wonder if the restriction on saying the name was put in place during the Hierocracy?

So I've always been struck by how "cheerful" the "voidbinding" chart is. It's always seemed that the "surgebinding" chart is much darker and ominous. I'm starting this as a new thread because I didn't want to necro Bloodfalcon's Theory on "Voidbinding" Chart. WoB says there are 30 different magic systems at work on Roshar, or 10 with 3 different ways to access each. It's pretty easy to see the connection between the Heralds around the Surgebinding chart and Honor. I'm pretty sure that I've seen a quote about Honor "creating" the Heralds. With the Lift Interlude we know Cultivation = Nightwatcher. I believe the stained glass "Voidbinding" chart on the back endpage is really the Cultivation/Nightwatcher chart. The Surges are the same/similar and achieved/accessed via Cultivation rather than Honor. Both charts would show KR orders, and the double eye of the Almighty. Does anyone know of the confirmation via WoB that it was the voidbinding chart? or did we just assume it because we thought of Voidbinding vs. Surgebinding? edited for grammar (and an incomplete sentence).