Blaze1616

Or Sah-ree-nee.

My money is on 10th anniversary of Elantris, though a Tor release of Alcatraz would be welcome news too.

It releases in the US on the 17th at midnight, if I am not mistaken. To be safe, don't discuss it until next weekend.

Perhaps it is merely a means of hiding his involvement with the Sons of Honor. Who would expect it of him, given his lifestyle indicates his opinions do not align with them? After all, who would suspect the person who owns three dogs of being a cat person?

Can you link the WoB you are talking about?

I agree, so I will end it with one last question for Moogle to answer. If type of Investiture does matter, do you have thoughts as to why Hoid was able to use the emerald pools? If you are correct, we know he has access to Yolen's pool(s?) and Scadrial's pools, as well as most probably Nalthis's pool, but unless he somehow granted himself access to the Dor, and I don't know what he'd do for Roshar, he should not be able to access Sel's or Roshar's pools. Perhaps the pool one is entering is the only time that matters? That does not explain how he gets off of Sel, though, unless he has another means of hopping.

The ability to pick up a Sanderson book, and read it like it was your first time, every time, is just plain awesome.

For me it all comes down to storage. If I were an Allomancer, where do I store my vials? Sure, the Sanderson Store gives me a convenient vial necklace, but is one vial enough? Feruchemy, on the other hand, I just have to wear rings, earrings, bracelets, etc. and I have access 24/7. Feruchemy all the way. Also I don't have to run my reserves dry every day with Feruchemy, nor do I need to continuously purchase more metals (don't know 'bout you, but gold is expensive). And that's assuming the necessary alloys are easily locatable in our world.

I agree with you on this: I was stretching. The point I was trying to make, though, is that there are still possibilities, and we lack enough information to definitively say one does not need magic to worldhop. I think we will have to agree to disagree at this point, but I will flesh out my opinion for the sake of a fun, intriguing discussion: I am of the opinion that the "key" to the pools' "lock" is a specific investiture amount. There is a threshold, and so long as an individual is above said threshold they can open the "portal" to Shadesmar (and potentially the Spiritual Realm, I do agree with you there). We see in Elantris that one does not need to actively make use of a magic system, necessarily, to open the portal, though this may be a Dor or AonDor specific mechanism. I feel Elantris did make clear, as you noted, that intent is important. The Reod Elantrians who used the pool to "pass on" presumably went to the Spiritual Realm, with the intent to be free from their suffering. Upon passing the investiture check, the pool opened and allowed passage due to their intent. It is also possible, though, that the pool did not perform its usual function because the Elantrians were Reod Elantrians, with a "flickering" investiture amount: From earlier in this thread... If my mechanism is correct, this could cause the pool to do some weird things, but I have no idea what, because it did not simply shut the pool down; it still worked. I suppose it is possible to gain an increase in investiture without gaining access to a magic system, but I don't know how. Every means I can think of for gaining investiture involve gaining access to a magic system as well. I suppose my reasoning for why investiture is needed is the fact that everything "magical" in the Cosmere involves investiture. If it weren't for investiture, the Cosmere would just be our universe. I find it an odd concept that worldhopping is something farmer Joe can do if he happens to bathe in the wrong body of water and has a desire to visit new and exotic places.

I'm pretty sure Lopen is one of Kaladin's squires, and is gaining the healing ability as an extension of Kaladin's power. I have trouble finding info about squires though. They get mentioned here and there [example] but I can never find a place where they get described in any manner of detail...

No worries. We all make mistakes. I definitely do.

The only problems I have with your examples, and this is just a personal point of view given lack of information, is that most, if not all of them, have connections to a magic system. The kandra, for example, might not be able to use magic, but was created through Hemalurgy. Moreover, we only know of four Blessings, which make use of tin, iron, copper, and zinc. We know, though, that there are 12 other important metals on Scadrial, plus alloys of the god metals. Who is to say there is not a Blessing of Travel that is granted by one of the other metals? source If that's not enough to convince you that it is possible, this WoB does show that kandra can become Allomancers without the use of Hemalurgy: source So I simply cannot rule out the fact that the kandra worldhopper is utilizing some relationship with a magic system to hop. Nazh is an interesting point. As you note, he being from Threnody means he has no direct access to magic (I have actually not read SfSitFoH, so I'm merely taking your word for the lack of magic). But, as we know, there are other ways to gain access. For instance, though very unlikely, Hoid might have given Nazh the Lerasium bead. I am again falling back on the simple lack of knowledge we have, for until we know Nazh better, who knows what capabilities he has. You used Hoid's original lack of Shadesmar acces as part of your argument, but I never stated one needed access to Shadesmar to worldhop. In fact, it is entirely possible you don't, because I don't see a means of Awakening or Biochromatic Breath enabling one to enter Shadesmar, yet we know Vasher hopped. My personal opinion is that Shadesmar is used for all worldhopping, but each magic system has a different mechanism or means of getting there. source Emphasis Added To round out my post, though, let me continue working through your examples with Demoux. For the sake of completeness, below is the WoB that Moogle mentions, stating Atium is not related to Scadrian worldhopping. source This WoB is very interesting, for it seems to rule out Demoux being able to hop if magic is necessary. I want to start with a bit of baseless conjecture though. Perhaps the burning of Atium itself is not what allows worldhopping, but rather the mere act of burning any metal. Such a scenario would allow Brandon to answer no, but not be lying. Perhaps it is the mere act of using Allomancy, given the right conditions/environment, that allows one to worldhop. Enough with baseless conjecture though, let's have some slightly less-baseless conjecture: source Emphasis Added source Emphasis Added source I am pretty sure we have all come to agree that the three folks in the interlude described above are Seventeenth Shard members. We also know that the Ars Arcanums (Arcani?) are written by a Seventeenth Shard member, as we know it isn't Hoid. Seeing as Demoux is a member of Seventeenth Shard, it is possible that his worldhopping has to do with the organization (as AonDor also does not allow direct access to Shadesmar as we currently know it). The point, though, is that all the members we know of have access to a magic system (with the possible exception of Nazh, if he is the Ars Arcanum writer). Because of this, I can't see Demoux as definitive proof of someone not using their access to a magic system to worldhop. As for the pesky Terriswoman, you noted she could have access to Feruchemy, thereby negating her as proof of worldhopping without access to a magic system for now. We do know that full Feruchemists exist after Sazed's ascension, so it is very possible she is one: source But even if she is not a full Feruchemist, or even a Ferring, she can still make use of a Feruchemically charged metal, providing her pseudo-access: source So I know this post has been long, and all I've really said is "none of your examples are valid," mostly because of lack of information. But until said information is given to us through WoB or his books, I have yet to see any reason to think one would not need access to a magic system. As for Rock and the Shardpool argument, I currently hold the opinion that the pools are necessary to worldhop if one cannot directly enter Shadesmar, but that any magic system holds the key to opening the "portal" within the pools. The shardpool in Elantris is the only first-hand example we have of anyone accessing the Cognitive or Spiritual Realms through the pools, and the only people who did were Elantrians. Granted, they were Reod Elantrians, by they were Elantrians nonetheless. Unless Rock has access to a magic system (which is very possible given the large amount of them on Roshar), I do not think he could worldhop. Tl:dr I do not think any of Moogle's examples are valid, for various reasons. My personal opinion is that Shardpools are used to access Shadesmar to worldhop, if the worldhopper does not have direct access through Soulcasting or the like, and the only way to access the "portal" within the pools is to use a magic system in some way. More details and information are needed to further refine or disprove it.

Remember that Scadrial during the first trilogy might look drastically different than in Alloy of Law (and presumably the other two trilogies as well). We also know that Scadrial is two continents, though they are probably connected by a large, inhospitable land mass. I will reiterate the sheer size of the land masses you've drawn on both Roshar and Scadrial as probably too big, but honestly I don't care, it looks awesome.

The Mayans identified Mercury, Venus, and Mars. Though they did think that the planets were stars, this is actually a fact that confuses scientists, because the planets move through the sky very differently from stars, and the Mayans were able to calculate the time it takes Venus to orbit the sun (they said 584 days, actual is 583.92), as well as Mercury (117 days versus actual 116 days) and Mars (780 days versus actual 779.936 days) [source]. If the people's on First of the Sun are as astronomically aware as the Mayans, it is not unreasonable for them to have known about the other planets. As for knowing the order, if all the planets have orbits measuring longer than the First of the Sun year, it does not seem to be too much of a logical leap to conclude that you are the closest planet. As for them being as astronomically aware, it would not surprise me given the reliance on the trappers like Sixth, and their heavy need of boat travel. As a side note, it is interesting that the Mayans did not identify Jupiter nor Saturn.

Blaze1616 - Detroit or Flint, Michigan, USA (I live near Detroit, work near Flint, visit 17th Shard from both).

Bah, no big deal. We've all made mistakes, and we're a nice community here. No need to be ashamed (assuming that's the reason you said this).

Two things. First, this topic may have been more suited for the Coppermind Wiki Forum, located on this sites main forum page. Second, the WoB in the "Words of Brandon (compiled) x 2" was actually a mistake on Brandon's part. The Silence Divine does take place on Ashyn, and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell takes place on Threnody. Given both works have the word silence in them, it was a reasonable mistake to make. Edit: Ninja'd.

I noticed that WoB during a search minutes after I posted that. And HAHA! Awesome. I was wondering why that wasn't working. Perfect, and thank you.

In addition to what Weiry said above on the previous page, it should be up to date for those going to signings and the like, so they don't necessarily repeat questions, nor will the "library" of unanswered questions not be up to date with the latest questions we have. That's what I actually meant, anyways.

Roshar looks fantastic, though I'd be interested to learn if the continent is that large. We know it is a Pangea outside of a few more islands, but that is a vast proportion of the planet, especially in context with Earth (71% water, 29% land according to Universe Today).

Here's the three WoBs I can find that relate to the issue of worldhopping without a magic system: source source source I suppose it is an easy argument to make that non-magic users could worldhop, especially with the use of shardpools, but every worldhopper we've recognized so far, other than Mraize and Iyatil, has access to a magic system. I feel the lack of evidence in and of itself condemns the argument (for now, anyways).

Specifically someone we have met given his currently published works, according to a WoB from the Orem signing. Source is post #46 Editted to fix link thanks to Weiry!

Awesome! Thanks!

See, when I read that post from Peter I got more of a sarcastic or joking vibe, given the discussion prior to his post. If true, then Mraize has access to Rosharan magic (one of the many), or worldhoppers can taxi others with them (answering yet another question I have).

This was answered during the Orem signing, in which Brandon said that Shadesmar has no version of space, but rather just "jumps" to the next location where there is life. As a side note, someone should really keep this updated. The OP has not been updated since March...I understand it is a bit of a hassle, but staying diligent shouldn't make it too hard (though now that its 9 months to update it will be a pretty large task).