Blaze1616

Nonsense. All ideas are valuable in a situation like this. Some are gold nuggets of wonder. Others are turds. Just because you've crapped a few out doesn't mean you won't be the one finding the gold later on.

Could a pro-airstriker please post their thoughts on why an airstrike is preferable over the ground assault? This isn't going to go farther until we start this discussion. Though it is a good idea, I think we've passed that exit. Even if we manage to get another communication line with the Chargers, their threats to kill any who attempt to enter the barn says they don't want any info from inside the barn to get out of. As such they'd likely just refuse our request. How are we to capture any of them if the team is unarmed? They are armed, with what I've imagined as large, bazooka sized weapons. Sending in anybody unarmed is going to result in everyone on the team dieing. I think the question now becames 1) Do we send an assault team or an airstrike, and 2) If we send an assault team, do they go in with lethal weapons.

Well, to preface I'd like to say that I really dislike the omniscient POV that Herbert uses. That's not what I'm referring to in my previous post, but I just want to preface by saying it's already got points against it going in. My main complaint about the book was that all of the mind blowing revelations occured together, all at once, in a short burst, and the reader is just expected to cope. This normally isn't a problem (I love the Sanderson Avalanche), but something about Dune's method was just...off-putting. Dune Spoilers abound.

I'm not bored. I'm actually quite enthralled with the concept of this thread. It is like an RP, but we're not roleplaying. We're legitimately discussing what in gods' names we'd do if Elephant militants took over a town and were threatening to re-enact it on a global scale. Pretty exciting. I worry later installments won't have much variation though, due to many of us lacking specific expertise. For example, we really couldn't do a situation where we are trying to aid a Space Station from imploding, as unless we know how Spacey things work, none of us would really know what we're talking about... This has me chuckling. It's rather sadistic though...

I have a feeling we'll use more than 10 more pages. I think we're reaching a point where disagreements will be had, and we'll potantially start getting split votes, rather than unanimous ones. That'll involve some discussion, extending post counts. I doubt we'll reach Question levels though.

I'm not continuing beyond Dune. I'm afraid to, to be honest. I enjoyed Dune, but I didn't LOVE it. The book had some issues that I tolerated, but when I hear people who LOVED Dune talk about how they weren't too pleased with the rest of the series, I doubt I'll like the rest of it at all.

Though you are correct, it might be a trap, what other choice do we have? We have no leads whatsoever as to where they've taken the hostages, where their "base" is, or even if our technology can stand up to theirs in battle! With zero data points, zero conclusions can be made. We need data points. Otherwise we're just sitting and waiting for the Chargers to make the next move. That's not a position we want to be in. All an airstrike would do, if it does kill them all, is leave us in the same position we're in now, but with a destroyed barn, rather than one ripe for the picking.

Unless there is video of him that we've dug up, there's nothing to compare it to other than the previous call. As for the airstrike, I am still personally against it. We don't want to accidentally kill all the Chargers in the barn.

I've always had a pet theory that plasma investiture exists, which is not really an answer. If you are correct and the Dor is separate, I wonder if the Dor is the power of creation that powers all the magic systems. Sel is supposedly the most Realmatically aware planet, according to Brandon...

So you're suggesting there is a force, located somewhere, that is independant of the solid, liquid, and gaseous inestitures we see?

Though that might normally stay within the realm of possible actions, the Chargers original statement to us is something that needs to be kept in mind: This was mentioned earlier, but just because official militaries don't engage, doesn't mean militias or individual citizens (particularly in the US where everyone and their mother seems to own a gun) won't engage. So likelihood is that at some point the Chargers will be enraged enough to say "screw it, KILL THE APES!" and then we're all dead. Might as well be proactive rather than wait for impending doom. Edit: ninja'd

Although I suppose we don't have definitive proof that the pool is the same essence as the Dor, I doubt it any different than that which powers the other magic systems, as it must fit within Brandon's unifying theory. Seeing as the other systems all have investiture in the form of the states of matter, I've presumed such a "rule" is involved in his unifying theory, and as such the Dor must fit into it as well. Mm, good points. I still have my doubts, but the possibility definitely exists.

Dang it! I was trying to edit, not post. My apologies.

Mmm, I'm thinking deploying with lethal weaponry. If they go in with non-lethal weapons in hand, the time it takes to change over to a lethal weapon could be all the Chargers need to kill the group. I vote have them enter after the EMP and LRADs with lethal weapons in hand and orders to not shoot to kill unless deemed necessary. If more rogueish individuals start killing without proper provocation, they can be tried for their actions later once this is over, as we will have video and audio footage of the assault. So, to be clear, I vote lethal weaponry over non-lethal. Edit: Bah, I wouldn't worry about it. Like I noted, stuff like that will be ignored by me in terms of making decisions, regardless of whether conclusions they lead to are pertinent or not. You always exhibit good prose techniques, so there's no reason to strain for a game such as this.

All right, I'm going to begin with my reactions and thoughts to the update, then move on to responding to some of the comments since then as well as giving my own opinions on what to do next. It's clear to me the hostages have been moved. They've potentially been harmed as well, given that the sobbing sounded "sickeningly." This also all but confirms warp tech for me. It does not, however, reveal the size of their warp tech. I'm still of the opinion it is "personal" sized, but we simply don't know. I'll discuss where I feel the hostages were likely moved later in the post. I want to make note, however, of how quiet Kyle is after everyone has been moved. Before we were hearing mostly rumbles from the Chargers, but there were other sounds. After we hear nothing except for some rumbles. For a kid who stumbles through his speech on the phone, presumably out of fear, he's rather quiet. In addition, the fact that we hear "a few low and indistinct mumbles" tells me that the majority of their force is gone with the hostages. To top that off, the fact that we still get audio after everyone has been moved means they've left behind their cell phones. Two minutes! That tells me they weren't expecting another call, but rather that we either meet their demands, or break them. It's a shame we didn't hear the whirring during the phone ringing, for that would have revealed they had the ability to communicate possible vast distances instantly. It would also reveal more information about their warp tech. Ah well. Kyle's comment that the First Lord is listening tells me that the Chargers understand our language. Given Kyle is a U.S. citizen, I've been assuming we're speaking English with them. The kid doesn't mention any translation device, so either it is too small that he doesn't know it exists, or the Chargers simply naturally understand. The fact that First Lord laughs is, first off, hilarious. Well done Kobold. Second, it tells me that the Chargers are cocky. That tells me they've done this to other planets with little hassle. It also tells me that other planets have tried rebelling, and been crushed. We should not take their military capabilities lightly. Also, to nitpick Kobold's specific wording, Kyle himself interprets the First Lord. So Kyle understands their language. How? When Kyle revealed his name, we did the digging necessary to learn he's an average 18 year old boy. But I'd like to note we do not have anything other than his voice telling us he's Kyle. There's no video to compare looks, just audio. Is Kyle really Kyle? Hmmm.... I'd also like to say that the only reason I can make these observations is because we're reading this. If such a situation were to actually occur, we'd have no idea whether Kyle can understand or not given all we hear is the audio, so I'm dropping this from my knowledge base for the sake of realism. Well, Kyle clearly gets assaulted, though to what degree we do not know. Given that the line hangs open for a minute but we don't hear more cries of pain, or even whimpering, my guess is he's dead. Sorry Kyle. So what does that "P" mean? Plan? Plane? Path? Person? Pink Gorilla? Hmm... Now on to what some people have said since the update. Science. You come across a new planet, what would you do? Particularly from a military perspective? Check out the competition. They are confident they can beat us, likely due to the warp tech (which would probably decimate us, we likely don't stand a chance). They've also probably been watching us, planning their Charge, like any good military minded people's would. So their confidence is probably well founded. So what would I do given that? Capture specimen, study them in the event they can stand up to us, learn their weaknesses and how to exploit them, etc. It makes perfect sense to me, and doesn't make me feel like they're hiding something (though they definitely might be). It probably would, but that doesn't help, really. If the warping tech is "unadvanced," and they are using, say, paired platforms (think of the oathgates on a smaller scale), then yes, this would inhibit them from warping. I feel we have enough evidence to rule out this kind of warp tech, though, because if they do require paired platforms, how did they get into Snowey in the first place? They couldn't have without being dropped off, and either placing or building the platform within the building. Highly unlikely given no signs of space ships have been detected as of yet. Advancing the warp tech to the point of un-paired platforms, or any advancement beyond that, makes disabling their warping a bit pointless. All that'll do is prevent Chargers from escaping, but won't keep them from bringing reinforcements. Given the militaristic attitude, I doubt they'd be trying to escape anyways, it's likely dishonorable in their culture. So disabling the warp tech, though a possibility, likely won't help us in any way. I agree with this. More on that later, though I do want to note that we don't know the whirring is definitely warp tech. It's just the most likely possibility given our knowledge of the situation. Though we should definitely try, I doubt we'll get anything useful. As I mentioned above, our phone tapping continued after the hostages were moved, and the phones seem to have stayed in the barn, given we hear no more human noises. Tracking the phones will likely just ping the barn in Snowey. We're not at war yet. Rather, we are trying to avoid it if possible. In addition, given TWTCH is above the jurisdiction of nations, and seem to answer to the UN, information reaching the countries of Earth is already happening. No worries there. While I agree the hostages are gone and Kyle is likely dead, I don't think an airstrike is a good idea. We have no idea what kind of natural defenses these creatures have. They may have developed Parshendi like bone armor, which they then accessorize with additional armor, which we know they have. How strong is this armor? Do bullets even have a chance of harming them? And airstrike could kill everything in that barn, or do absolutely nothing to the Chargers. We just don't know. Given there is much higher value on capturing a live Charger, I think an airstrike is not the correct first move in this game of chess. My initial thought was that he wasn't on the ground, and came back to recieve the call, which would explain the near two minutes of waiting. But lack of the whirring noise during the wait pretty much shoots that idea down. So my next thought is that, this is a militaristic culture, and as such they might view it as necessary for the Commander to be on the front lines. They likely gain leadership by being great warriors, and so not being on the front lines is likely an act of cowardice. To delve deeper into their possible culture, the reason they have any soldiers on the ground could be due to a rule of the Charge. Given they came in advance, gave us advanced warning, and are offering us a chance to survive the onslought tells me they have rules for this. Perhaps one of them is that once a Charge is initiated, personel must be on the ground at all times. Or perhaps the commander must be there at all times. My point is, it is likely a cultural issue. That's my guess, anyways. Warping tech means they could attack anywhere. Spending the time and resources to evacuate Naples just to have them attack Berlin would be a waste. With warping capabilities, cloacking seems a little overkill, though very possible. I'm not sure why they'd be using it though, given warping doesn't imply a mothership. They could easily be warping to Earth all the way from their home planet, wherever that may be. They may also be a terrestrial threat, having lived beneath us since the dawn of humanity. We have no idea. Regardless, I think we're screwed with or without cloaking. If they use their warping tech the right way, we stand no chance. I thought of this too, but I think it is unlikely. Though it would explain why they aren't attacking until tomorrow, it is slightly contradicted by the fact that they are constantly jumping soldiers back and forth from Earth to wherever. If a cool down time or recharge were required, I'd expect they'd conserve for the attack, and perform the attack as soon as able. All right, so now what I think we should do. First and foremost, track the cell phones. I'm convinced they are still in the barn given our audio feed, but it would be foolish and just plain stupid to not at least try. As for where the hostages were taken, I'm betting off-planet, wherever the rest of the Chargers are. Second, we send in the assault team. Hook them up with cameras and mics (which the military already does) and send them in. Have a team of engineers, a team of zoologists, and really any other useful teams watch the footage of whatever goes down to come to conclusions. There's no point in sending non-military personel anymore. They've taken the hostages. It's time to act. Equip this team with LRADs and preceed their assault with an electromagnetic pulse, as Lindel suggested. If we're lucky our Earthly weapons will harm them and we can capture at least one of them, preferably First Lord (though we have no idea which one he is). If we're unlucky, they'll wipe the floor with our assualt team and we're all doomed. What's the worst that could happen?

When you're trying to explain something, usually. It is essentially the answer to the question "Why?" regardless of context. Example: Why is the sky blue? Aliens. Why do sirens sound louder when approaching than when leaving? Aliens. Why are fake sugars no more healthy for you than actual sugar? Aliens.

Yes. Given Sand should be Ground, which you had originally, you are correct. For those not able to follow the mess of posts that is all that, the answer is: Fire Water Grass Electric Flying Fighting Bug Ground Rock Ice Poison Dragon Normal Ghost Psychic Dark Steel Fairy

You are too kind! I did find a loop hole though. I have to copy the red "X", and paste into Word. Somehow the computer is fine with that The five you missed were all in gen 2 (gold, silver, etc) and on . Edit: to further give you a hint, of the five you missed, Dragon was one of them. So you are missing 4 now. 1 of them was not in the original games, and the other 3 were. Gah! We're editting our posts at the same time. With your addition of steel and sand you've officially gotten one wrong. Sand is not a type. Steel was though. That means you're missing 3, all from the original games and on.

Err, was trying to edit and it double posted. My Apologies.

You're short by 5. There are 18 total. Edit: I'm saddened by the fact that my computer won't let me see your picture Edit 2: Nevermind. I found a loophole!

Toothless - How to Train Your Dragon Mieu - Tales of the Abyss Puppy Repede - Tales of Vesperia: First Strike Pearly Fey - Ace Attorney Rowdy - Scrubs Wallace Wells - Scott Pilgrim WLIU Name all the different Pokemon types (Freebies: Water, Fire, etc.)

I do not believe a Feruchemical Savant can exist, as the power is End-Neutral. I would bet savants can only exist with End-Positive powers, given the nature of a savant, what it is that makes a savant, and the like.

That's a good point that I hadn't considered. I'll edit the OP. I do think it is safe to say it would fuel Allomantic powers only. Aside from Brandon naming Allomancy when he talked of the gaseous form, take into account that consuming the solid form, lerasium, only makes one an Allomancer, and not a Feruchemist. If pure investiture from Preservation could be fuel for other systems, why would the solid form be so biased? My issue with the thought process that Elantrians must use Aons no matter what is that the other three major systems involve some form of instinctual-ness. As the Ars Arcanum excerpt you posted notes, Allomancy is in itself instinctual. With Breath, holding enough to reach the upper Heightenings makes Awakening instinctual. With Stormlight, it only took Kaladin some slight practice with thinking outside the box for his powers to become instinctual. So for AonDor to not have some means of becoming instinctual would make it the oddball.

I'm with Lindel on having the reconnaisance team focus on locating warp technology. I'd comprise the team as such: 1 zoologist - no specialties necessary. Just because they look and behave like elephants does not mean they don't have wings. 1 engineer - mechanical & electrical dual degrees. These two engineering types fit the "jack of all trades" for the two "halves" of engineering. It might turn out that a computer engineer or chemical engineer is more useful, but by sending in a mechanical & electrical dual degree engineer we increase the odds of the individual being useful. 1 diplomat - the individual needs to be authorized to speak on behalf of all humans. If this cannot be cleared with other governments in time, at least on behalf of the U.S. due to the attack being in Snowey, FL. 3 military personel. Due to Snowey being landlocked, I'd say army rangers or green berets. I have next to zero knowledge of the inner workings of our military, though, so a different branch/specialty group might be more appropriate. I do not think we need to send in a translator. Whether it be from a device, telepathy, or Kyle having a nefarious role in this plot, the Chargers can communicate with us with near immediate translation. Sending in a translator is a bit of a waste, and an unnecessary risk of life. As for whether they go in armed, I'm torn. On the one hand it seems silly to not leave them at least one weapon, however small, in the event that things go south. On the other hand, sending in a team with the purpose of peace negotiations (from the Chargers' perspective) but have them armed is a clear indication that we are not taking the situation seriously. My vote is to send them in unarmed. From the Chargers' perspective they are likely showing us an act of kindness. Rather than trample all over our entire species into extinction, they are offering us a chance to survive. They've likely done this to other planets, as they seem rather experienced with the situation. Not taking the situation seriously, or at least giving off the impression that we don't, is probably a very bad idea. We'll have the assault team in place to move in, so I vote the reconnaisance team be unarmed. Also, their equipment should include hidden video and audio devices. Audio won't help much due to the cell phone tapping (though quality might be better for analytical purposes), but video is desperately needed. I also would like an earpiece on at least the diplomat, if not the whole team. This way, if they aren't checked for bugs, we'll have two way communication rather than one way. If multiple earpieces go, but not enough for the whole team, my priority list proceeds as such: 1) diplomat 2) engineer 3) zoologist 4-6) military folks Other than that, I'm with Joe's plan of calling in ahead to inform them we'd like to send diplomats. My only worry about this is if they say no, and we send the team anyways, they'll attack. It's tempting to send the team in to "stumble" upon the Chargers, but I ultimately think that communication ahead of time is the best course of action. I also want to reiterate that sending any more military presence than what we've already got in the area around Snowey is likely pointless. Sending navies, air forces, armies, none of it matters at this point. We do not know the travel potential of the Chargers, and evidence points toward warping. Sending in everyone within 1 day's travel could leave many major cities defenseless (Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, etc.). I do not think that the risk involved in the gamble over whether they have warp tech or not is worth removing any defenses those major cities have.