little wilson

It's....difficult...to allow more anon games. I want to do more, but we can only ever have one going at a time, since we only have enough accounts for 1 set of players (unless we have smaller games). Right now, the goal is to get up to 6 games in a year, but for this first year where we're still getting our feet under us with them and the timing and stuff, we'll probably only have 4-5. Which I think is fine. The other thing is that the anonymous games, at least these first few, require a lot of moderation. Far, far more than regular games. Going straight from one anon game to another with no break would get tiring after a while. The abbreviation, by the way, is AN.

Yes. I was in contact with a person claiming priest last cycle, and I believe they might be evil. I'm approximately 95% certain about this. However, if I am right, Joe would certainly have to be evil as well. I'm hesitant to lynch the priest claimant without checking Joe's alignment first. I need to talk to someone else before saying anything more, but there's a very good chance I will shed much more light on precisely why I was just attacked (or my guess about this, anyway, since I don't think it was because of the village reads).

It's mostly gut read from both comments in the thread and a PM I've got with him. It's not a major village read, but it is a bit of a village read.

I'm pretty sure I watched him do that. I believe it was around that same time he made someone The Dragon Reborn, and I think I might have a screenshot of that one lying around somewhere. Troll!Rubix has much fun on the backend with rep when he's feeling like it.

Let me be clear that when I suggested a Jeskeri Elantrian, I was not proposing that we go through and lynch all the Elantrians. I am generally rather opposed to lynching/killing based on role only. That said: It's not speculation that's the problem. There's nothing inherently wrong with starting from a group of players like [Elantrians] or [Princes/Princesses] and looking closer at them to see which, if any, look suspicious. The problem occurs when you become convinced there's someone evil in that group when you have no actual proof for that and start actively killing them one by one, and never bothering to rethink your theory. I've done that at least twice before and neither ended terribly well for me (#lifelesscommandersneverforget #ripvillagesmokers). So yeah. Using that group as a jumping off point is fine, so long as you're careful about it. Just don't go advocate killing anyone for the sole reason that they belong to said group and someone in said group must be evil. That is what can cause the village to lose more often than not. Anyway. I know who poisoned Aman and I'm currently debating sharing it. I think those requesting that information make a valid point and I don't think it's information that hurts. However, I will give the poisoner some time to share of their own volition. I will say that I'm currently leaning village on this player.

I hope you stick around to play more, Bort. And I want to be clear that I'm not just talking about Bort. The specifics of his deaths are not relevant. He is simply the latest in a long line of people who have returned and experienced this, so he made an easy example to point to. But this problem is bigger than just Bort and these two games, so I'd prefer not to focus on them (plus, they're currently running so we really shouldn't). But this general issue is definitely something we should discuss so we can fix it.

Steel, Badger dropped out. Walin took his spot. : P As for suspicions/votes. Um. I'm not sure. About Arin, he poisoned himself, from what Aman told me when I contacted him. Can you be more specific about his ties to Araris that you're seeing?

I'm disappointed right now. This community is usually very, very welcoming to new players. We generally give them multiple cycles of game play, even if they're being a little suspicious. (There are a few exceptions to that rule, but not many). This is good. I fully support this. So why am I disappointed? New players come in all shapes and sizes and backgrounds. Some are brand new to this forum. Some have been on this forum for years but only recently found SE. Some have played mafia in real life. Some have played it online. Some have never played it at all. Some were pulled in by friends/family who play here. Some don't know anyone. There is a certain subset of "new" players who we as a community do not welcome. In fact, we do quite the opposite, and it ends up sending many of these new players running away from SE permanently. This subset of new players are people who once played SE, over a year ago (sometimes a couple years) but left. They are no more familiar with the current meta than other new players. They know about as many people as many new players. They are about as familiar with the game as some new players who come from other online mafia forums. But they are not treated like other new players. Just look at the most recent example: @Bort. The last game he actually played before he recently returned was AG2. That was over 2 years ago. He was killed within the first two cycles of both these recent games. Bort isn't the only one either. I've seen a number of people return, giving SE another shot because they have time and remember how fun it once was, and they get almost completely ignored in the game, killed, and then disappear for good. I can't really blame them. I remember how things used to be and what they're remembering. The games are very different now, and they'll never go back to how they used to be, and that's fine. I don't think those prodigal son players expect the games to be exactly as they left. I'm sure they know things have changed. They expect not to know hardly anyone. But they're still getting their feet under them, just like any other new player, and getting reoriented to the community and the games. Yet they're treated like they never left and when they do something that an R&R player wouldn't do, they're killed, usually early in the game, before they have a chance to readjust. This might happen for a couple of games in a row. And then, they leave. What if you leave for a year? The only way to stay connected to this community should not be to never leave after the first welcome. That's not maintainable. I want these games to be welcoming to everyone. Not just people who have never, ever played here before. Any ideas on how we do that?

I've just asked Drought about that. His vote was Prince'd.

Yeah, I get off at 8:30 on Thursday, so I'll change and head straight to BYU, I think, after work.

Yeah, I can reach out to that contact. Also, I'll just say here and now that Lopen's posts since I accused him and the PM I created with him last night have mostly assuaged me of that suspicion. I didn't say anything last night about this because I wanted to see what other people said and if anyone else jumped on Lopen with little reasoning beyond my case. I still agree there was a weird tone with that Araris post, but him being Jeskeri is not the only explanation for it so I currently am choosing to look elsewhere. Edit: one thing I'd like discussed is the possibility of at least one Jeskeri Elantrian. Yes, Aman was a priest and yes he had only been poisoned, but that makes him not a threat to non-Elantrians for at least another cycle. Yet they killed him on his first night in Elantris. Why? I think it's because he was still a threat to them. Which means there is a Jeskeri Elantrian (or two, depending on if one got taken by the Shaod/poisoned). This fits with LG12, where there was a starting Jeskeri Elantrian.

I actually started with my own Seon too. Didn't realize it until Cycle 2 though, when I inherited Bort's. To my knowledge, there is one more Seon holder, and they are the player Aman scanned last cycle.

Okay. Since I'm bored and this night hasn't been very lively, I'm going to try to liven it up a little more. I think Lopen is a Cultist. In fact, I'm rather convinced of it. Here is my case: Loren tried to stay the bandwagon on Eternum, and when it shifted to Rand and multiple people voted with the clear reasoning that it was just a bandwagon vote with no real reasoning behind, Lopen still feel the need to put suck a detailed explanation. To me, this feels like he know Rand was going to flip village and he felt he needed to explain his middle-of-the-pack-perfect-place-for-an-eliminator vote so it wouldn't come back to bite him. Even though he'd wanted a bandwagon. Feels too excited. Additionally, he'd the first to mention at this point that Aman targeted Araris. Everyone else before him had been wondering who Aman targeted. Now, the cultists aren't the only people who would've known that Aman likely targeted Araris, and I believe a village Lopen would've known as well, but this post feels like he's intentionally trying to ingratiate himself to the village by offering this information and clearly a Jeskeri would never do such a thing to their own teammate. I've already mentioned this before, and while Lopen had said that he feels Len is village from it and wasn't trying to say anyone either way, I get a very strong misleading vibe from this post. The tone of it reads, to me, like "I know Len is village but I don't want others trusting him so I'm going to try to make people think that this comment makes Len more suspicious rather than less." I dislike how he's saying we can trust most Jeskeri scans here. We started with about 3 Derethi pendants, which makes sense since the pendants directly correlate to the Derethi win con, so you don't want more pendants because things will be easier for the Derethi. Balance says a lower number. Korathi and Jeskeri, though, can be a little higher. I suspect that at least half of the Jeskeri have Korathi pendants. This explains why they weren't worried about Aman. They did not poison him (probably). But they also didn't attack him, which says that they do not view him as a threat, and that tells me that they have sufficient coverage to protect themselves from priest scans. So anyone saying that we can trust scans that show up as Jeskeri seem suspicious to me, since they could very easily be writing to get themselves and most of their team trusted while killing off villagers with Jeskeri pendants. In terms of numbers, by the way, I think we have one or two more Jeskeri pendants than we have Jeskeri, for the exact reason Lopen pointed out: the pendants some kill Jeskeri. They kill villagers. And while the vigilante success rate is higher than the lynch success rate, it's still less than 40% last I checked. So the odds are high that villagers will be killing villagers and helping the Jeskeri out. Maybe it's just me but I've never really liked jokes like this. They feel false, generally. I hinted at this during the day when I said this probably wasn't the best idea (which Lopen conveniently just quoted), but to expand on that in the case on Lopen. As I said, it's not the best idea anyway, since eliminators defend villagers all the time, but it seems like the perfect way to get villagers trusting eliminators. He fits the group he's talking about. He admits he does. This makes him seem village, and I believe that's exactly why he did it. So he could seem village. But there's a difference between someone doing something to seem village and doing something because they are village, and it's that distinction that's important. To sum up, most of Lopen's posts are either indicative of him having more knowledge than a regular villager should have (particularly knowledge about alignment) or they are geared to make him seem more village and get people trusting him/other players who likely aren't village. I will be voting for Lopen during the day. Thoughts?

I want to make it clear that Aman did not request that I not share that information with the thread. He also didn't tell me to share it either. I unilaterally decided not to, though if Aman would like it shared (I don't think he will), he can say so. Also, it's not like he asked to have multiple people start PMs with him. He didn't request to have people in place to relay information to the thread, and honestly, I didn't contact him to do so. I contacted him because I remember LG32 and the short time we were able to work together in that game and decided to reach out to him first when I got Bort's seon. The reason I have relayed info to the thread is because it seemed like the thread was held up on info that I had. It doesn't help to discuss "what if Aman didn't target Araris?" when I know that he did. Or "what was Aman's second action's results?" when I know the answer to that too. I don't like discussion stagnating and it doesn't help the village when it does. I'm....not sure that's a wise course of action, actually. Through Aman's comment alone about how obvious it was that Bort was village after he outed Aman to the thread and that the lynch needs to change, that's enough to get some villagers looking at Bort and judging him for themselves. At that point, the Jeskeri could easily have decided they'll kill him during the night and then they could say in the thread that he's village and try to move the lynch, looking like village when doing it. Therefore, looking at who were active proponents in saying Bort was village is not a surefire way to find villagers. But I would say it's a good way to trust an eliminator.

I suspect it was because he was mostly confirmed village to most villagers due to the interaction with Aman, and he was also very unlikely to be protected.

Aman did tell me who he scanned, and I considered sharing that with the thread, but decided that with the pendants, we shouldn't get into the habit of trusting whatever the scans say, even to the point of soft-clearing a person. If Aman wishes the person's identity revealed, I will inform the thread, but for now, I think it best if we don't rely entirely on Aman in all things.

If it were only open to BYU students, I could not have come to any meeting, and I've been to almost all of them. So you are most certainly welcome to join.

Also, sorry for the double post, but since I feel this is additionally relevant and not as an edit and also I don't want discussion to stagnate with votes piled on Araris: I feel that Elenion is more likely to be village (or at least non-Jeskeri) right now, since Aman gave an option to the thread about who to throw the pendant at. Len almost immediately answered with Araris. If he were Jeskeri, he wouldn't be throwing his own teammate under the bus. It wouldn't have hurt anything to mention someone else, and it would've kept his teammate in the clear for longer. Also wouldn't have really been suspicious to say Joe or Eternum either. Aman had no preference. Also, Len's post and Aman's edit were done at the same minute, so it's rather unlikely that Len saw Aman's edit and said Araris to gain village cred. Far more likely that they both just had the same idea at the same time. Personally, I think it should be somewhat obvious that this indicates Len is more likely to be a villager, and I find it strange that Lopen almost seems to be trying to cast suspicion on Len for it. Ditto to Pyro for saying that he's more suspicious of Len. If I were going to vote on someone other than Araris right now, I'd probably vote on one of these two, though I'm not sure which. I really don't like the tone in Lopen's post there, but Pyro seemed very interested in figuring out who Aman threw the pendant at. Almost like a Jeskeri concerned for his teammate. Plus, he has a Seon and I believe the Jeskeri started with at least one Seon, if not two. I'm not advocating lynching based on item distribution, especially since we don't know all the original Seon-holders (nor do I advocate all the original Seon holders claim), but it is a consideration for me.

I don't have time to whip up a painting/any RP right now, so I'm just going to say that I inherited Bort's Seon and I've reached out to Aman. He's confirmed that he threw the pendant at Araris. So Araris. Guess you didn't have time to go back under the radar there, huh?

Kainae stared at her latest painting. It was unlike anything she'd ever done before. Her work was more in the abstract realm, open to interpretation, but this. This was....not. And yet, she found she rather liked it. Landscapes. Maybe she should try more of them. Okay. I really dislike that Aman is now outed and I think the reasoning behind it was terrible. Even if you're wary about someone, you don't reveal them C1 when they've roleclaimed Priest. And honestly, I don't know many people who would waste a scan like that just to prove their role when there are others they can scan and also still prove their role. I get wanting to be certain, but even if he's lying, it wouldn't be hard to fake if you're asking him to scan you. If he's lying, he'd be Jeskeri and therefore he'd know his teammates and know that you are not one of them. So that's Jeskeri crossed off right there. And I don't think the priest scan sees converts, since being a convert doesn't change your alignment. You'd only be Derethi if you were the Gyorn or Odiv. So therefore, if he's guessing, he's guessing Citizen of Arelon, and if he's wrong, you're only one person and you have no ability to kill so... Aman's life now had a very short timer on it. We will be losing our Priest by cycle 3 at the latest. I highly doubt we have more than one village Jindo, because there were two in the first game and the two were broken together since they just protected each other and kept foiling the Jeskeri kills over and over again. I know that was one of the things Hero wanted to fix this time, and therefore, the village likely only has one. Assuming the Jeskeri attack Aman tonight and the Jindo saves him, the Jindo will be recovering tomorrow night and Aman will be open to die. Bye bye priest. And I doubt there's a second priest, though I suppose it's possible, particularly if there's only a single Jindo. I definitely do not think there are two priests and two Jindo. Anyway, assuming Aman is the only priest, we're not too bad off on the Jeskeri side. Sure, village analysis catching eliminators has been somewhat lost, but bring forced to analyze to catch them can help that. Honestly, though, it's not the Jeskeri that worry me. They're a normal elim team. We've had plenty of practice finding those. The Derethi though? Right now, there's a single Gyorn and catching 1 in 25 is difficult. Even with the Odiv, it won't be much easier. Even worse, they can convert two a night and their win con is merely to convert all players. Converts stay secret unless they reveal, and the only way to slow down their win con is lynch converts, it now the Jeskeri to kill converts because if we don't lynch converts an the Jeskeri don't kill converts, that's at least 4 people toward their goal every cycle. Now, my math may not be great, but I'm pretty sure that means they win by cycle 7. I fully plan on trying to catch Jeskeri, but I'm not at all confident about catching the Gyorn and if Aman is the only priest, I think we're going to be in trouble.

As I said, Rand's post there felt off to me, so I'm down with a lynch on Rand over Eternum.

I've done two sketches this turn and there's more going on so I shan't do more this turn. My views of the Eternum lynch are basically like Seonid. I would rather lynch Eternum than Bort, but I would rather lynch Rand over either of them.

Kainae couldn't get the Imperial Mint out of her head. It was like one she painted one thing for him, she couldn't stop. She had a problem, an addiction, and she needed to break it somehow. I'm not proud of the above sketch, btw. I literally threw it together in less than fifteen minutes when I saw what had gone on in the thread in the last 4 hours. The bandwagon on Bort is raising all kinds of red flags to me, and I shall be looking at basically everyone who voted for him, whatever your reasoning. There's nothing substantial going for him as a lynch candidate and it's D1. Bandwagons on D1 for no good reason are rarely purely village. I don't have reads on everyone in the wagon, but I'm not really liking Rand or Araris right now. I got a very off vibe from Rand's post voting for Bort and a couple others of his posts. I do not have time to analyze that more in depth right now because I am at work and won't get off until long after the turn ends. Araris could well just be paranoia because Araris tends to fly under the radar no matter his alignment and I do not wish to fall for that again. Beware, Araris: I will be watching you closely. I'm okay with the Eternum lynch, as well, so for now, Badger , Eternum .

Kainae wasn't precisely sure what his Monarch, the Mint Imperial, was requesting of her, but it was her duty as an artist to deliver. She struggled all day on her painting, and when she'd completed it, she still wasn't happy with it. He'd wanted something that drew people to his area (whatever that meant) and she supposed that there was a sort of minty sunrise (or was that a minty explosion? She couldn't really tell, now that she looked at it closely) that could draw the gaze of viewers. That would suffice, right? She sure hoped so. But once again, some burst of white had made it into her art again, though at least this time it was off to the side and not completely dominating her work. Yet she still didn't know what it meant. Ah well. So, sorry for my lack of posting. I've been keeping up with the thread, but I want to RP every post I make this game, and I want to have a picture in every RP, which means I have to find time to draw said picture, and between work and other things with life (I discovered shortly after signing up for this game that I have to move and I'll be doing that this weekend so yay), finding time for that is a little difficult. Though if others want to commission work like Stink did, that'll give me inspiration for what to draw and should help. But anyway. Game talk. Most of what I would've liked to say has basically already been said. We can't trust anyone who's said they're not a convert, because it's nigh-certain a convert would lie, and I would wager that at least one of the converts has actually already said that they're not converted, so....yeah. For now, I shall not say one way or the other whether I'm converted (at least to the thread), and I don't think I'll change my mind on that. I agree with almost all of what Aman said, and I'd offer my own deal to people who contact me, but there's not really much point: I'm generally honest and open with my PM contacts so...yeah. I really just like talking to people in PMs. It's the part of these games I love the most. There's been an awful lot of RP, which is great, but I've noticed that most of the people RPing a lot aren't really contributing any game talk, which is a problem. Not a terrible problem on D1, but if it continues past D1, I'll probably end up voting for one of those people. For now, Badger. @The Honey Badger, it's great to have you back, but I'd hate for you to forget about the game since it's been so long since you've played. Care to join us?

I'm down. That's also three days before my birthday (31! ) so we could even do cake or brownies or something chocolate. If we wanted.