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I dont think so, a dynasty implies multiple generations of a bloodline and at the time Gavilar was just another Highprince of the Alethi Princedoms, but still one of the more prominent ones. The Sunmaker united the nation for one generation only, before that it was the Heirocracy, and before that was silver Kingdom territory that is basically myth to most Rosharans. Well, the original Highprince bloodlines were formed by the Sunmaker's ten son's, so techncailly all Highprinces should be able to trace their bloodlines directly to the Sunmaker. Unless there had been a coup in one of them and a new bloodline installed. If so, it could make sense that Navani was part of the Ousted Bloodline, acknowledged for the Sunmaker lineage but booted from actual power long ago.

You know what, I looked close enough to to actual table's phrasing catch that distinction. Everywhere else it was just said to make the accosted Misting, but the table does indeed imply that creating Mistings is not the only effect a Lerasium alloy might have. Which my extension means that Lerasium alloyed with non-allomantic metals will sometimes still have an effect. Soooo....Who else desperately wants to know what a Lerasiumn/Silver alloy would do?

Creating Mistborn and Mistings is indeed a Side effect, but to my knowledge there has been no evidence that it offers other, non-allomantic benefits (outside of the foreign Godmetal Alloy case). Can you point me to an example where buring Lerasium or Being Mistborn offers non-allomantic effects?

BRAAAAAAAIIIIIIIINNNNNNSSSSS.............................

I think you getting stuck on a semantic issue. Regardless of what they may have been called, per WOB there existed "Original Elantrians" that predate the city and who built it, who were actively using and studying AonDor, and thus who did not require the city for their access to the magic. At some point the city was abandoned by it's builders and rediscovered by the more modern Aonic peoples (my best guess is that the Originals all migrated to Ire). That's precisely my point, all Elantris the City does is amplify the effect of AonDor by virtue of all the spells cast there big in close proximity to a massive Rao amplifier Aon. It's not supposed to be th Elantris didnt break, Arelon (literally) broke, which made Elantris no longer longer functional as it should have. But that's just another side of the same "What" without a "Why" that I am looking for: When the city become a Non-Aon, why did that prevent things from going back to the way they apparently were before the city was Built? Once it stopped being a correctly drawn Aon, the city should have returned to just being Architecture, rather than causing the...blockage issue (for lack of a better description) that caused the Reod. So you are saying that the creation of the city Fundamentally Altered the Magic System? That is still a big ol' Why? So far even the Vessels Death (itself) doesnt accomplish that, the only thing that will is a conscious Change imposed by the vessel, and being that Preservation/Harmony has done it a few times at least but cant think of other examples, it might be something only the planet's Creator(s) can do, not just a resident Shard. The vessel Dying doesnt necessarily change it, but the Shards Investiture being yanked out of the Spiritual Realm and shoved into the Cognitive Realm does; Sel is specifically the other end of the bell curve you are talking about.

All sentient People Everywhere, you dont even have to be from Scadrial to burn Lerasium, it does all the work for you. And yes, Lerasium Mistings arent a thing simply because lerasium doesnt really operate like any other Allomancy. Alloys just create Mistings rather than Mistborn.

How? It's based on the shapes of the metaphysical blood splatter of their murder, and function like No other magic ever has with fundamentally different rules by virtue of being sourced in the Cognitive Realm rather than the Spiritual, with a corresponding Cognitive Focus (symbols). The subset of Seons that are involved in Elantris, Elantrians, and the AonDor. Wasnt trying to imply that the entire species was part of Elantris, if that's what you mean.

Technically true, but we know of at least one example of it being done with a Spike. And Ruin did manage to participate in the Creation of a whole Planet, so if he thought there might be a Ruinous payoff for that Spike Function, it might not run afoul of the Intent.

Yup, pretty sure we saw precisely that at the end of OB Eh, this community is the one that maintains the Coppermind and at the end of the Dya it's still a Wiki, so while valuable we cant really take it as surface level Gospel. We know for a fact that "there was a Point" Heralds were powered directly by Honor, that is was similar to how Preservation directly Powered Vin with the Mists, and that the Honorblades where the part of the Equation that gave them direct Access to Honor's Essence. However, it is also true that in every mention of hte Heralds being directly powered, it's in the Past Tense. Which puts me back to the same Question: Have we seen Nale draw Stormlight without Gems present, or conversely have we seen him carrying Gems or otherwise actinig as if he needs to have a store of Stormlight? Had. "Has" is still unknown, that's what we are talking about. The Heralds were previously powered by Honor directly, but there is no more Honor to perform that. There is WOB that he did it similar to how Preservation was able to directly Power Vin with the MIst, which we know required the Shards conscious intervention.

Hmm, hadnt considered that, lets chase it for a moment. As far as we know currently, being an Elantrian is the only way to access AonDor at all. We know from the Annotations that it was built by "the original Elantrians" (so at the very leas the name doesnt come from the City itself). Now, if the "original Elantrians" that he mentioned as the builders were not Elantrians as we know now (some weaker Proto-elantrian instead), and the modern Elatrians were an Imposed transformation made by the city iteself, I dont really see how it could coopt the entire thing: The question becomes "Why did the rest lose out", why would that prevent the original template from still manifesting? Best answer I can come up with is for the same reasons that Aons still worked even though the City was broken, or the reason that Aons "tied to ELANTRIS and Arelon, yet would work without them". If the City is not necessary for Aons or it's users, then shouldnt there still be the occasional Proto-Elantrian? How would the Amplifier/concentrator of the city make an unlimited thing become a Limited thing? And if they were Limited all along, why? Because it's the only such example I know of where there is a hard Max of how many users the Magic/shard can support at any given time. Not impossible, I dont really see how that could work. The AonDor is fundamentally based on Aons&Seons, which were literally created by the act of Devotion being Shattered. For her to have designed the system, she would have had to anticipate Odium, her death and Shattering, AND the fact that he'd shove it all into the Cognitive Realm. That seems like a whole lot of Foresight to have still been killed.

But the Elantrians predate the City itself; they had to get access to and begin studying AonDor to be able to design the city as a Dor Amplifier. I could see the same idea applying instead the whole Arelon map symbol that Aons are based on, and so the Elatris Rao amplifier being entirely able to increase the limit, but it still doesnt explain why there is a limit in the first place. For now all I have is "Shenanigans because it's in the Cognitive and not the Spiritual", but that's more of a hand-wave than a real explanation.

All Dor magics came about after the shards were shattered and shoved rudderless into the Cognitive Realm, and the Seons of elantris in particular were created by that event itself. They will be connected with that mass (if that was you meant), but Im not sure anything will have survived the actual Shattering of the shards.

Interesting thought. I doubt it, but only because this was mentioned as a specific power of the Heralds that went away when Honor Died. And we've seen that even the native shadesmar spren dont have that sort of Connection to Honor, they still get renewed by the passing Storm/Perpendicularity, so I dont see it would form entirely as part of the 5th without something to build on. Relates Question: Have there been any mention of Nale keeping gems for Stormlight in all his various travels? He's the only 5th Ideal on stage so far.

If the coppermind still says that I believe it's incorrect, we have WOB confirmation that it is a conscious decision by an admittedly erratic Entity (Ie Endowment). Per THE SAME WOB, she doesnt have a specific Task to fulfill, persay, but she does have "certain things she is looking for". Being some kind of "Embodiment of Endowment" might fit that, though I dont think all the Returned we've seen really fit that mold, personally. The theory Ive seen is that she takes a look at their Spiritual Might-Have-Been's, examining their Fortune/Destiny, and occasionally decides to give them a chance to Make some Change to what they/she sees. At least, that's a common interpretation of what we got from Lightsong's experience. For what it's worth, I think most of the shards are going to have this ability, unless they feel it is counter to their specific Intent. Fused are an equivalent example, as are Heralds in my opinion (though details of the Oathpact that made them are still scarce), and somebody managed the same effect on Kelsier with a Spike. I could see this happening on Sel pretty easily, though it vary wildly by region. As a general statement it seems like one of the common traits is that it grants abnormal access to the local magic (auto-5th heightening, Fused Surges, etc). Maybe for AonDor it would be more or less Elantrians? I could see it making immortal Super Dakhor Monks fairly easily. Forgery's a bit harder, though if you had a premade stamp managed to use it immediately after a person died, you might be able to bring them back but he Stamp's investiture would be all that was keeping their soul anchored.

I stumbled across this WOB today. "The number of Elantrians had certain thresholds and upper limits." My question is Why? No theories come to mind, so Im curious if you all have any.

What do you mean?

hehe, that was guaranteed as soon as hemalurgy got involved, by definition. But your point is valid, Hemalurgy takes Knowledge, so for this they need magic shenanigans or lots and lots of bloody experimentation.

(pzzt, the topic is which character in the Cosmere is the equivalent of Internet Chuck Norris. Nobody's getting transformed into anything, because any proper Chuck Norris equivalent would laugh at such feeble attempts. Which is Stick's Shtick) Stick's Shtick...try saying that 5 times fast...

Oh god I hope not. That sounds way too much like one or the other loosing their own Self entirely and being subsumed into the other. Also, I dont know if that's entirely possible: spren will often think in fundamentally Alien ways (varying by breed) and I dont think their natures could shift so much that they'd be guaranteed to agree with everything their Radiant thinks and does. Dalinar is not going to be able to shift the Stormfather's way of thinking to full Human without impacting the Storm itself. Not to mention the catch-22 that if they always agree then they will always agree on any rationalization of their Ideals, regardless of how perverted they might become, circumventing the checks&balances that the Ideals are supposed to offer (making it more like the Honorblades that the Spren fear so much). Now, as a test case, we know it is possible to Steal the Bind with Hemalurgy, with the cited limitation being that the Spren could still freely end the Bond. If the theory is accurate, they might not still be able to do so if the Bond stolen had reached the 5th.

OP, Im sorry to say that the Role of Cosmere Chuck Norris is already taken by the almighty Stick. But Stick is Stick, and does not mind or care if others approach his divine status. Sooo: When the 16 tried to Shatter Adonalsium, they first had to get Taln's permission; Nothing breaks without his say so Taln breathes Breaths Taln is Adonalsium's predecessor (Retired)

Most likely yes, since those bloodlines were already established. However, if is confirmed that Atium is not longer being created since Ati died, so most of them will never have an opportunity to learn they had powers. This would be a modern equivalent of the various Mistings/Ferrings of unknown metals in Era 1, or any Duralumin Gnat: they could have had power (and are still targets of Hemalurgy, I suppose) but they cant really do anything useful with it. The Atium Mistings are called Seer's, while Atium Ferrings and Malatium users have not been given canon names. We also have no canon names for any uses/alloys of Lerasium, though since it's a permanent effect and not a lasting one that needs more Lerasium, the whole name idea may not apply. We have no confirmed Idea what Lerasium might do for Feruchemy, though the most common theory I see is that it would store any Feruchemical Trait the way Atium can substitute for Any metal in Hemalurgy.

At the time they were speaking specifically about the Skybreakers as an organization. Granted they are the only Order that has survived since the Recreance, so it might still be technically accurate, but they dont have any way to know for sure one way or the other. Granted they've been hunting them for a while now so they have at least been trying to keep an eye out. Master Ki said there hadnt been a Skybreaker to reach the 5th in centuries, but that would still been relatively recent compared to how long Nale has been running them covertly, so I highly Doubt he he's been killing the competition since Szeth went to the "other side" and he's still planning to train him. I suspect he simply outlives them all, and they operate with at least slightly more autonomy while they are around (a separate, but probably not a "rival" faction). To the OP, the only aside from the general Scale of getting more efficient with Stormlight as you progress, the only specific effect of the 5th Ideal we have confirmed is that whatever process the Spren know to forcibly sever the Bond between spren and Radiant will not work once they've sworn the 5th. I think that means they have finished the merging process and have solidified as a two-part combination Being. No Idea what other implications that may have, though Im curious if the Spren can still freely Choose to end the Bond or if they are more locked in at that point.

Proving it false is almost as useful as Proving it true. What confirmation?

I'm not saying the cremlings themselves are some sort of manifest spren, rather that there might be a spren possessing a group of Cultivated and specialized but still basically animal crabs, which they return to being if they get too far away from the collective

Arguably though, that could be compared to a Kandra that lost their Blessings: not actually Dead, just basically brain-dead.