HoidsRock

I've thought about this subject a bit. First off, Moash seems to blame the king more than Roshone. In WOR, it could be blamed on him not knowing Roshone's name but in OB, his hatred for Elkohar is an obsession. Perhaps now that Elkohar is gone, it will switch to Roshone. I certainly don't see Moash going after Lirin but I could Lirin, Hesina and Oroden caught in the crossfire. On the other hand...what about Ialai going after Kaladin's family? In WOK, Kaladin was an unknown troublemaker but Anaram could have connected the dots for her and point that Kaladin has family in Hearthstone. Ialai does not have much of a motive beyond maliciousness but she did seem to suspect the bridgemen. Kaladin's family could provide leverage, revenge, etc.

Also, that would obviously make Ico's deadeye father Timbre's grandfather:

Actually missed it the first time. It is very helpful. Thank you. Moving into crazy theory time, the lesser Spren for Skybreakers are passionspren. They show up three times in Oathbringer, and twice the context is romance. The third time is more ambiguous when Dalinar contemplates killing Gavilar: As to why they are associated are with Skybreakers, I only have two references: And then on Szeth's 3rd Ideal

Excellent guess. I am updating my chart. Makes sense but I assumed they would be aligned with Ashspren.

I like it. These appear as little stormclouds in the physical realm (which is amusing) but we know that Kaladin could not recognize windspren in Shadesmar so maybe logicspren appear differently there. And geometry makes sense for logicspren.

Looking back on this I realize my chart never uploaded.

Hi everyone, I am hoping that I can get some help filling in this chart with either facts or educated guesses or wild speculative guesses. Corrections are also welcome. This post assumes that related but lesser spren become shardplate (e.g. Syl’s cousins, the wind spren, become Windrunner shardplate). However, the comments about Jasnah and Dalinar have me wondering. Note 1, does the following refer to Jasnah's potential shardplate? That makes it sound like Cryptics are her shardplate? I am sure this is not right but would love other explanations. Note 2, doe the following refer to Dalinar's shardplate? If so, are these lightspren? Is there some sort of non-evil stormlight spren? Is this the same light as: Channeling my inner Pattern, both truth and lies in response to this would be appreciated.

You would be right. Here is the WOB and words of Isaac: https://wob.coppermind.net/basic_search/?query=kaladin+kalak However, they point out that his name was chosen in-world by his parents because it sort of sounds like Kalak.

I was thinking about this relative to Kaladin's family. While I have little pity for the high-ranking light-eyes of House Sadeas, they are devoid of both leadership and soldiers. Kaladin himself is worried about it. Presumably, Dalinar will begin to deploy his troops if only to protect the unconquered parts of Alethkar. Who goes to Hearthstone? Do the residents of Hearthstone flee to Herdaz?

For me it was this exchange: The interchange is of course hilarious but it is also sweet and inspiring. The moment Dalinar thinks he's alone, the moment she steps up beside him. The Urchin Radiant is all he's got against the overwhelming force. Lift realizes all this and doesn't back down for a second. I laugh, cry, and stand up straighter every time I read this passage.

I have: Reread WOK and WOR Brushed up on Ars Arcanum, Khriss notes on the Rosharan system, and all the epigraphs. Followed the Edgedancer reread on Tor. Nothing to do now but wait. Oh, and I also am anxious to see how Jasnah reacts to Kaladin. Previously, when Shallan expressed shock that their powers were given to women, Jasnah responded with: So in theory, Jasnah won't have a problem with this independent darkeyes. But we all know when it comes to our own prejudices, they can be harder to overcome. So you have a darkeyes who commands her cousin that is fourth in line for the throne? Who is not particularly deferential to her brother? And downright insolent to Anaram? This is the scene I want to see.

Definitely plays there as she does picture Pattern in Shadesmar form. I think it is also taking place in the physical realm. She does feel the need to touch Midnight Mother to at least establish the connection. That's why I took the first "clinging" as physical. I suppose it's possible that Shallan removes glove, touches Midnight Mother, and recalls Patternblade. That last step proves to superfluous as all three are transported to:

Certainly not initially as she uses the freehand to pull off the glove. I don't think she recalls her Patternblade: That could be a metaphorical/spiritual "clinging" except that we also get Which seems to imply to me that the first "clinging" is physical. Contra this (i.e. in support of the idea that she did recall her Patternblade), Pattern speaks in her mind. Has Pattern, versus Patternblade, ever spoken directly into Shallan's mind?

Why does Shallan use the safehand against the Midnight Mother? Shallan obviously has the proper Vorin inhibitions about it. As best as I can tell, unlike Navani, "Shallan Davar" (as opposed to "Veil") has never worn one. Furthermore, in chapter 32: Mentioning it here again so soon struck me as important. I went to the new Arcanum (an absolutely awesome resource!) and all of the WOB on safehands are roughly the same. Men, by declaring swordplay a two-handed art and that two-handed arts were masculine while one-handed arts were feminine, effectively kept shardblades to themselves. There didn't seem to anything about a secret power, purpose, etc. with the safehand. So why does she pull off the glove in the middle of a group of men? So she could summon Pattern to her right? Maybe, but not only does she not use Pattern that way in the encounter that files, it seems more instinctual than that. It is so instinctual that it overcomes her ingrained Vorin social mores. My starting theory is that Shallan knew she had to open herself to the Midnight Mother (which she did): in order to fight it. Initially, this is Shallan fighting Re-Shephir with Pattern and her true honest self (she of course has to lie about who she is later in order to win the confrontation). Removing the glove was an instinctual way to open herself up. I am not satisfied with this theory but wanted to throw something out there to start the discussion. Other ideas?

Kaladin's is at least tied to his secondary attributes of Jes in Ars Arcanum (leading). Dalinar likewise has a link with Ishi (guiding). But I have to resort to mental gymnastics for Shallan/Shash (Creative/Honest does not seem to link to memory). As for Lift/Vev, the two stated attributes are loving/healing which do not necessarily link to language (a theory I otherwise like). Thoughts? Mental gymnastics welcome.

Oh this is so awesome. Is that a mink or a lion? Let's ask Adolin This is of course right before he kills Sadeas so he probably didn't revisit the subject. Anyway, that makes me think that this is lion (what I thought when I read WOR) but that the "minkness" of the drawing is similar for the reasons described above. Artists started with what they knew (a mink) and added what should be there for a lion--bigger, fiercer, and a mane. November 14 is arriving at a pace usually reserved for Christmas.

Wow! What great chapters! Initial thoughts: I am in the camp that Shallan and Renarin sense the unmade because of illumination. Why does Mraize sense it? His Aviar? Furthermore, since this seems to be the "lightweavers unmade," can Renarin sense it because of the surge of illumination or because of a shared surge with Shallan (which just happens to be illumination)? In the first case Jasnah (or any other elsecaller) would not be able to sense it, and in the second she would? Renarin, however, knowing the name is I believe due to his Truthwatcher status. Speaking of Renarin, we got plenty of him, plenty of Bridge Four, plenty of him as part of Bridge Four, and still got him as Radiant! All with being a minor character in the two chapters! Speaking of Mraize, I remember his last scene in WOR: And I remember yelling, "You don't know what you are talking about Mraize!" (he didn't answer). But, now seeing Shallan with her multiple personas and her desperation to keep Veil from Adolin, well, I don't know. I don't have a theory, just a general creepiness.

Meant to quote you in the post above. I agree with Seawolf regarding this being Ishar and Ishar = Tezim.

Agree with Ishar and much more inclined to believe Ishar = Tezim.

Do we know the timeline? Does the novella take place before or after the Lift interlude in WoR?

My mother-in-law is an OSC fan in particular and a fantasy/sci-fi in general (30 years ago, I became the perfect man for her daughter when I mentioned that my favorite childhood book was The Witches of Karres). She was the one who introduced my son and me to WOT and we have tried unsuccessfully to get her into SA--this in spite of the fact that she liked how BWS finished the series. So I sent her the review because I think it is positive enough to get her to read. That said, I agree with the comments made above. I found the comments about making sure BWS has good notes in case he cannot finish the series rather patronizing. Really? The publisher responsible making WOT got finished and the author who pushed over the finish line are probably aware of this possibility.

About Moogle's comment I was about to argue against it on the grounds that Kaladin himself was not charged by the Everstorm. The idea was that since Kaladin couldn't be fed off the light of Everstorm, I found it doubtful that "useful Stormlight" could be stored in the gems. But before posting I wanted to check if the consensus is that KR's can directly feed off Stormlight. That is, put Kaladin in a storm without gemstones and he can feed off the stormlight, he just can't store it. I was thinking yes on the grounds that when Kaladin entered the highstorms while fighting Szeth (and yes his "reserves" burst alight), BWS states that being in the highstorm "energized Kaladin." I also thought that it might explain while Shallan was almost hypnotized by the highstorm at the wine cafe. Thoughts? Do KR's feed directly off Stormlight? And if so does that shed light on whether the Everstorm can recharge gemstones? Also, I just noticed I have made enough comments to have been promoted from Darkeyes to Skaa. Not actually sure that is a promotion.

Regarding the weeping, from the reading, "As much as he despised the Weeping he was not happy to see those rains go, they should have lasted another seven days but the wrong windstorm had disrupted them." So the rains are at least temporarily gone, but the Weeping as a season still has seven days. This could be important given that Kaladin currently has no way to surge bind or heal himself. That said: Is a great question. If it circles the globe at the same rate as the Everstorm, it should be approaching Kaladin soon.

Regarding Kaladin's character arc, I have wondered if his first real challenge in this book (and therefore his first chance at progression) will be the desire to take revenge on Roshone. Or maybe differentiating between revenge and justice?

Great question. I would say yes, Parshman have to be outdoors. I am guessing obviously but why do the red spren need an Everstorm at all? Do they need the combination of the storm and the red spren? I wonder if one difference between Parshendi and Parshmen is that the former have to "let" the spren do the transformation? My two reasons for wondering are 1) Eshonai has to convince the Parshendi to be transformed as opposed to just gathering them and exposing them to the red spren, and 2) the four Alethi armies were briefly exposed the Everstorm right before being transported to Urithiru and Rlain did not transform.