dendrophobe

I'd agree. Really, even one year of constant torture seems completely impossible. It depends on whether the torture was constant or episodic, but... Nobody could last that long. Especially if Odium had any figs and mice at his disposal.

I think it's safe to say that we don't only have 500 years to play with.

This thread offers a radically different take on the timeline... It puts the Prelude at about 6000 years post-shattering. I'm not sure of its validity, but it does offer another perspective on the 10,000 year WoB.

Where did the 500 years bit come from? I must have missed the "Sanderson timeline quote" you mentioned. I remember Brandon saying that the Cosmere timeline was around 10,000 years, but the Prelude was only 4500 years ago. Assuming we have 1000 years in the future after Stormlight ends (very conservative estimate for development of FTL travel! Probably much less) that would still leave 4500 years for Desolations, assuming they start soon after the Shattering. But we (to my knowledge) don't have a great timeline for those early events, and I don't think that the 10,000 years thing has been made canon.

I went back and reread the Prelude, and I think you're remembering it wrong. So it could very easily have been than he only died once by a thunderclast. I don't see anywhere else that makes it seem like he died many times, other than his relief and disbelief that, this time, he actually survived.

I estimate in about two weeks.

Good point, but the thing now knows her. To the core. If it can manage to pry Pattern free and bond Shallan in his place, that could very well turn her to Odium's side whether she wanted it or not. We have no idea what the effect would be of a Radiant-Unmade bond. But I would think such a thing would be easier now that the Unmade knows her.

I took that as being metaphorical. Like Shallan can't quite tell that it's her true face, and instead it feels like another disguise.

Brandon has at the very least implied (may have outright said - I can't recall) that the Stormfather could bond more than one Radiant at a time. So it could be that. Besides, aren't the Bondsmiths the Order pretty much completely of Honor? The common theory is that the Nightwatcher is one of the Bondsmith spren, but she's Cultivation's equivalent of the Stormfather, more or less. Whereas the Stormfather is completely of Honor. It would seem weird if somehow someone bonded a Cultivation superspren, but then used powers completely of Honor. If all three bonded the Stormfather, that would make sense from this perspective.

Read it again. Shallan thought the same thing, but she wasn't a member of Bridge Four. Just near them. Different uniform and everything.

Possible, but part of me can't help but think we need to know Odium's champion. If it's just another dark monster to fight, there's not nearly as much emotional turmoil. Let it be someone we know, someone we love, who tragically fell. They're still in there, they could be redeemed. But in the meantime, they're doing horrible, horrible things.

That would actually be a really cool twist. I'd love seeing Shallan be the villain like that. She's not (to me) a particularly compelling hero. But her personality quirks would make a fantastic villain. Hopefully she'd be redeemed at the end though.

Hmm, now that I'd buy. That sounds... Extremely dangerous.

It is very interesting how the Unmade was trying to break Shallan's bond with Pattern and replace him. I really want to see this happen now. It reminds me of WOT spoilers I think we'll eventually see this in a similar way. But I don't know that it'll be the Champion. I think that will be unique; otherwise you could have 9 of them running around, having each having bonded one of the Unmade.

Oh. Darn. I'm not on Discord, so I was hoping that was a new theory. Oh well. But it could still have to do with Taln. If they're twisted opposites... Taln is a Stoneward. What's opposite of stone? Sky. What's in the sky? The Everstorm.

Ah, thanks for making a thread for this! We definitely need to find out if there have only been 9 Desolations in the past... The way this is set up, with the Everstorm and whatnot, this is clearly the True Last Desolation, the True Aharietiam. Which brings me to my speculation... If there is a 10th Unmade running around now, I propose that it is the Everstorm. Or perhaps an Unmade who controls the Everstorm, similar to how the Stormfather can control/call the Highstorms.

It fits so well though. Otherwise you could end up with the same Herald breaking every time. Given how tired they all were in the Prelude, I'd think that some of them would give in pretty quickly. I can envision it... "Dammit, Carl! We were only being tortured for five minutes this time! We've had seventeen Desolations in the last two weeks!"

This is a pretty awesome theory. So each new desolation had a new Unmade, and there will only ever be 10 desolations to decide things. Or maybe 10 before the Oathpact ends. Which means that we need a new Unmade since Taln broke. What if the Everstorm is the new Unmade? We know some of them are more forces, not thinking...

Any violence, I'd say. It must be an Unmade. I can't imagine what else it could be.

First on-screen appearance of an Unmade?

Ooh, Dalinar? That sounds like it could be him from the first epigraph...

Ah, you’re right on all counts. I had seen that WoB before, but it’s implications escaped my mind. Thanks for setting me straight!

I was just thinking about Bondsmiths, and their numbers. The traditional number has always been three, so we all started thinking about what spren those three could bond. Obviously the Stormfather is one, but there are all kinds of ideas for the other two. I think there’s only one more. Brandon has said (I’m on mobile so can’t retrieve it currently. Maybe someone can help with that?) that he considers the Heralds to be members of their respective orders, since they founded them. Unless I’m mistaken, we never were told that there were three Radiant Bondsmiths, only three Bondsmiths. Of which Ishar was one. Somewhat unrelated to this theory, I think both the others were bonded to the Stormfather.

You left out the most important part of the quote in Oathbringer. So it is in fact different than the ones Shallan has seen before. The only real similarity is the color. And as for the idea that a soldier couldn't get away with carrying around a bird, remember, this is Sadeas' army that we're talking about. They purposefully stay away from order so that they won't be mistaken for Kholin soldiers. A bird wouldn't fly (no pun intended...) in the Kholin army, but this is a whole different animal.

Interesting. You're the first person whose reactions of that sort I've read. Glad to know it wasn't too confusing. However, that was just a line or a few lines (depending on if you read Edgedancer as well). I'd imagine that it would be harder to assume Nightblood is just an odd spren in future books where he shows up more. Cause... Nightblood can do other stuff besides just talk like a spren stuck in sword form. Like eat souls and stuff. Then again, I could be wrong.