Kasimir

THE TOWER Karnan shrugged. "Why not?" he said, laconically. If everyone wanted to cheat, he supposed he was up for a game of solitaire. 'Course, the way these things went, probably someone would play a card, break the tie, that sort of thing. Or they'd change their mind at the last minute. These things usually happened. Didn't always trust everyone to hold their nerve, and if cheating Voidbringers wouldn't even play by the rules of a simple game of cards, why expect them not to cheat a gentleman's agreement like that? Edited to add: [OOC: Smh smh Elims you aren't entertaining her enough!]

THE JACK OF SPHERES Would Karnan do such a thing? Absolutely, absolutely yes. [OOC: I'll have you know Eiwlil tried to bully me in the GM PM and Lotus had to stop her. I praise the beneficence of the GM Lotus and bite my thumb at the mean Eiwlil! >:( ] "Just as well," Karnan said, absently. "I'm not sure I'd like to try on any of your principles, Jake." Seemed like the other Jack was a bit of a bleeding heart. Karnan rolled his eyes. Last thing he needed was another of those. That was how you started, and then the world took you and ground you down and then instead of restoring the Heralds to the world, you wound up playing cards in a corner of Urithiru. "Pressure, lad? How amusing." He shuffled his hand again. Heron had a neat trick, the sort where he made one card look like another. The trick was in making people look elsewhere, then slipping a card out from your sleeve. Karnan had the speed for it, but it'd been years since he tried that, and it seemed to go against the point of a nice, quiet posting, with a nice, quiet, boring game. If he wanted to deal with cheaters, he'd play Heron. Lady of Sorrows, Jack of Spheres. The Queen bearing the Swords, and the knave who thought he held the world in his hands. Old tricks, Karnan thought, and he swallowed the grief and played.

THE JACK OF SMILES "Maybe you should've bet on that," Karnan said, allowing himself the faintest smirk. "I may be an old hand at this, but I have some principles. You channelling Eiwlil now?" [OOC: Unlike Karnan, alas, I am new but I too have principles! And if you don't like them, I have more!] "Bet," Karnan said, absently, and marked out the clear broam. Might as well go for it.

TEMPERANCE Karnan stared severely at the guard who had spoken. Quiet enough, but you never knew. It was always the quiet ones. Next thing you knew, your branch was compromised by the Ghostbloods and everyone you knew was bleeding out. Cheery thought, that. "If you could simply whisper to anyone you wanted," Karnan said, patiently, "This wouldn't be much of a game, would it? Of course, cheaters like Voidbringers wouldn't care about that. You a Voidbringer, Valimar?" [OOC: No PMs ] He wasn't serious enough about the accusation, and he dropped it in a few moments. 'Course, man like Valimar couldn't resist a tie. Man after Karnan's own heart, really, even though Karnan rather thought he was less keen on ties than Valimar sometimes was. [OOC: :eyes: Are you sure] [OOC: Drake] Thing was, as much as Karnan wanted to make Honest Jake sweat, he didn't feel right about it. Honest Jake'd had a pretty rough run of it, the last time they played, or so Karnan thought anyway. 'Least he could do was to wait a bit instead of accusing the man of being a liar and a cheat on the first round of cards! Karnan raised an eyebrow. At this rate, they were going to nest permanently in his hair. "Yes, old guy," [=Araris] he said, patiently. "We know it's the old hands like you that are full of tricks." Old soldiers were the worst, even if Karnan wasn't sure if Aralis was a soldier. You didn't underestimate someone who'd been around, though, and seen enough, and a man who could hold a thwacking stick with the best of them wasn't one to be thought of lightly. Edited to add: [OOC: Drake, here's a bet That there will be at least two separate Oops Awards in this game before the other concurrent game ends, judging from the number of animals checking this thread out.]

[OOC: Have to rush off so breaking my RP trend hopefully just this once, RIP me. I will justify this later before lack of justification makes me twitchy. Honestly before you edited, I was gonna pull my vote from you and probably go Elan or Araris, giving us a huge one-vote tie. I like ties in specific contexts, this is one of them. But of course you would not know this as I am new and so are you. And I had that great son of a cow meme react ]

THE JACK OF CARDS "Two weeks latrine duty," Karnan said, calmly. At least he wouldn't need to hear from Greyhound Jack or that other Jack about getting their names all confused and booking them for extra latrine duty. He had guarded before, he supposed, if being a guard to an Alethi Brightlord and a Son of Honour counted. Really, that was a far more exciting business than Karnan had wanted to have to deal with. He studied his cards again. Jack of Cards, Lady of Swords. There was that legend, wasn't it? Lady of Swords, Lady of Sorrows. He shivered, and covered the card firmly with the Jack of Cards. Luck be with him, he hoped. The stormlight in the piled gems flickered for a moment and Karnan scowled at them, and pulled a clear broam out of his pocket. "This one," he said. "How about a bet that we can get you up to a month's cleaning out the armoury and two months of latrine duty?" [OOC: Drake, if the banter feels a bit too mean-spirited for you, let me know and I'll pull it back.]

This reminds me of/is similar to the LG2 set-up, I think, or one of those back-up roles type roles. Players had a % chance of Snapping throughout the game and IIRC that's partly affected by losing a role. The one issue I have with this policy is it saves the Village from losing key roles but the problem with inactivity is also the free wincon progression for either team, really. It only gets very blatant in games where you have, say, five inactives, but it's worth pointing out anyway. RIP I promise I am literate. Edited to add: In that case, I'd just be cautious? We used to do an Awards system given by the GM, but I can't remember why we got rid of it. Likely to do with concerns it was making people too competitive or made players feel left out - I do know some of the awards were a bit eh, like naming one award after the first player to get C1ed repeatedly and giving it to a player who got C1ed. But figuring out why it was gotten rid of is probably important before thinking of reinstating it.

THE PRINCE OF MASKS Karnan sighed. Evidently, Honest Jake was about as honest as a Kholinar horse-dealer. Should he have expected something else? He wasn't even disappointed. "I decided I needed a change of scenery," he said, deadpan. "A nice, quiet posting." Heron had told him what he really needed was a trip to the Purelake and some good Herdazian cooking. Storming crazy man. "If you're calling me a cheater," Karnan said, with just the slightest trace of a smile, "There's a week's latrine duty with your name on it faster than you can say 'abuse of power', 'Honest' Jake." It was the same polite smile he'd worn, shadowing Brightlord Terneas at the functions he attended, when the bodyguard's duty was to blend in, to be almost invisible. [OOC: Apparently the exe is just kind of getting booted from the gaming table - I asked for RP reasons so IDK how to write this but I tried okay.] He'd had the strangest feeling that Honest Jake used to run a gambling den. He reminded Karnan of some of the men he'd known, back when he'd worked for Brightlord Terneas. Back when he'd thought he'd worked for the Sons of Honour. Then again, they were already playing for spheres, what was a little more betting? "You keeping track of the bets?" Karnan wanted to know, sighing inwardly. "Bet a broam that one of 'em is Honest." He didn't know, to be honest; he just agreed with Gostan that it'd be funny which was good enough for Karnan. [OOC: Why wait for a dead doc to start a betting table? We're already gambling as it is ]

THE ARTIFABRIAN [OOC: Be amusing if 'Honest' Jake were Honest, Matrim's Dice were lucky, and ... Yeah, no, I got nothin'. Hello Matrim's Dice! I, a new player, have no idea what this shuffle squatting of which you speak is, but you may engage in it at your own pleasure because I'm just here to play a mean game of cards and have a good time. I'm sure a veteran like yourself can read me soon enough ] Gostan, thought Karnan, irritably. That was the name. Of all the names, that name? It meant 'go back' or 'go backwards' in the slang spoken in certain obscure parts of Alethkar, which Karnan had the dubious pleasure of visiting because...Well. It always came back to Brightlord Terneas, didn't it? [OOC: Yep, I did laugh. It's slang shared in Singapore and Malaysia, have at it ] He wasn't really the sort to engage in speculation about the rules of the game. Karnan was more interested in playing the game. It was an interesting break from his duties in Urithiru, at any rate. Heron'd warned him, but of all the dangers of the quiet post, Karnan hadn't thought that getting bored to tears would be one of them. Just yesterday, he'd had to listen to the quartermaster natter on about the difficulties of procuring regulation-length uniforms for the guards. Of all the blasted things! Gostan was asking a bunch of questions about the game. Karnan listened with half a ear, and tuned him out. [OOC: Okay, I have no way to RP this one, so direct comment it is. This is a good question and I would expect the wincon to be a bit more complicated because in theory, nothing except the grace of RNGesus stops all Village from acquiring a Shardblade card, which would mean that outnumbering wouldn't quite be enough for the Elims. Normally outnumbering/parity is a "when Village can't resist" con so I'd like to hear the answer to this.] [OOC: Edited to add title because I forgot again :/]

THE FOOL OF SWORDS Karnan stared at the guard who'd spoken up. He didn't remember that fellow's name. Slipping up, he was. "I assign patrol schedules, handle logistics with the quartermaster, ensure the security of this sector of Urithiru," he said, eyebrow raised. He glanced down at his cards again, and kept his expression steady. "I train you sorry lot at swords," he glanced judgmentally at the old man - who'd let an old man onto the guard, even in a relatively quiet posting such as this? "And apparently, play a mean game of cards." Interesting the guard had asked. As if he was emphasising how raw he was, how much of a fish he was. Karnan shook his head and shuffled the cards in his hand idly. Wasn't about to buy that, no he wasn't. Jack of Swords grinned at him. Jack of Swords, King of Swords, maybe Fool of Swords, depending on where you asked. He hid his grimace and hoped it wasn't a sign. He added, a beat later, deadpan, "Oh, and evidently, you lot love me enough to let me off the first time you decide to expel me from the gaming table. Very kind of you." [OOC: Ex proof, good for one shot.] [OOC: Edited to add title since this is apparently the conceit I am using. Matrim's Dice whom I certainly don't know as I am a new player, nothing directed at you, just making sneaky card and Tarot refs.]

THE KING OF SWORDS Guard captain. Karnan wasn't sure which gods he'd offended to end up with that sort of job. All of the responsibility, none of the fun. He'd been responsible, once. He wasn't really sure it suited him. Discovering that your blade had been used for fell deeds did that to a man. Now he just played the cards that life dealt him, nevermind what Heron said. Heron wasn't the one who had to look himself in the mirror in the morning, was he now? Thing was, he hadn't really expected to be made guard captain. He'd figured he'd go for a nice, quiet post, maybe somewhere they wanted an old hand who knew which end of a sword was which. Urithiru had Radiants, didn't it? Working for them was a nice switch, maybe, from the Sons of Honour. Bloody Heron. They'd taken one look at the fact he'd worked for Brightlord Terneas and decided he had enough talents and made him guard captain. Sure, he was pretty good with a sword, and he knew his way around intrigue and Brightlords and all of that stuff, but Karnan thought he was an old dog, really, just bound for the scrapheap. He fanned out his cards, careful to shield them from the gaze of the other guards. Never knew, with this lot. Karnan didn't trust anyone he didn't vet personally, and unfortunately, the only person he'd personally vetted in this batch was...himself. Awkward, that. "Well then, Honest Jake," he drawled. "I hear you're new in these parts, as am I. Tell me, how does a jack like you come to work for the guard here?" [OOC: Psst, GM Almighty - signed up previously as Karnan, lighteyed swordsman, formerly working for Brightlord Terneas.] Edited: Apologies, welcome the IM to confirm this, but I made a slight edit here as I had an old man brain moment and Karnan's backstory has him working for Brightlord Terneas. Sorry about this! Would appreciate/request for a playerlist edit

Hello new player, I am new player too! I also cannot draw it seems. Let's hope I can play this forum mafia game better than I can draw :S @Lotus: Asking for fellow new player DrakeMarshall here: does he have to give his tell if he is Honest?

This one definitely has to be done carefully, I think. There was quite some controversy about the Breath rewards in LG4, and AFAIR, Maili gave out one-use shields and a Shardhammer (the mACE of Ace - long story...) to players who solved his codes. That sort of cemented a consensus in terms of stopping mini-games. Shardhammer wouldn't have stopped my team from losing in LG5 but it sure was a nasty surprise to encounter.

Hello fellow new player

THE JACK OF SWORDS "How would you like to die?" Karnan paused. It was not a question he was used to being asked. He fanned the cards out and shrugged. The other man placed a hand on the first card, and Karnan eyed him warily. Archer, not much of a swordsman. You could see that from his shoulders, the way he moved. You could train a man to know the sword, but you couldn't always make it sing in his grasp. "Well?" "How would you like to die?" Brightlord Terneas had asked, and then, Karnan had laughed and said, "In your service, Brightlord." A different life, then. He'd thought himself one of the Sons of Honor, working for the return of the Heralds. But Terneas had lied to him, had used him, had used his blade ruthlessly, and now... He glanced at the man across the table. Heron, he'd called himself. Knife man, maybe. Many archers were. Figured if it came down to it, he'd flip the table, and then buy himself seconds to draw. Of course, it all went to Braize if Heron was a Shardbearer. Somehow, Karnan didn't think so. Life was like that: you worked with what was in your hand. You had to know when to hold your cards, and when to fold them, and to always, always play them close to hand. "Old," Karnan said, casually. The other man's smile didn't reach his eyes. "Friend, you're in the wrong profession." He flipped over the card, and of course it was the Tower, struck by lightning, those plummeting from it. Fallen from grace. Karnan supposed it could be worse. He flipped over the next card, and then it was worse: the King of Scythes, grinning from the painted face of the card. "All men die," Karnan said, quietly. "Retirement suits you," Heron said. "Best stick with it, yeah?" Karnan gestured expansively. "It's a quiet guardpost, in Urithiru of all places. I'd imagine the worst I'd have to fear are ulcers from all that sitting on my arse and losing all my spheres at cards. "Don't say it." "What's the worst that could happen?" [OOC: Been a bad series of work weeks, I need something fun, this looks like it. Shuffling out of retirement for this one. Going to try to stick entirely to RP for this one. Cheers ]

I think this would work better. If so, the reveal of the Elim as well would more or less be an Elim 'penalty' rather than punishment for them doing well. It's a little stronger than a one-shot Seeker because it guarantees an Elim reveal - but the Elims also get a say in who gets outed by it.

Off the top of my head, I'm guessing the best way to work the randomisation would be to build it into a game simulation and then keep running the simulations until you reach a balance of probabilities you're comfortable with. The one scenario the GM'd want to avoid would be the one where that one compulsory Elim reveal just snowballs into a Village victory. It shouldn't, because teams should distance, ideally, but we do know ideal things don't always happen. Randomising which Elim is revealed could be an option but I'm not really keen on that as I feel it takes away agency from the Elim team, making it a bit of a punch to the face for an Elim team that has otherwise been faring relatively well in the game. The team shouldn't feel punished for success I guess is what I'm saying.

My question would be what you need an experienced GM for. If you just want someone on speed dial / to panic dial if things go wrong or to doublecheck stuff, I can help. I'm too burned out for anything on write-ups but I don't think you'll have a problem with those. I don't think I can actively GM three games in a row, even as a co-GM, but if it's just panic dial, admin, and "how do you do X/Y" stuff, happy to help.

I like this idea and it seems interesting to me for the mindgames it could foster. My question would be if you expect Elim teams to game this by appointing a fall guy beforehand and then just refusing to interact or interacting minimally? (I know, it's still data and zero interaction is sus, but just thinking aloud I suppose.)

Make sure you get this group and you should be fine. ...Excluding me, I'm only in the screenshot as I sent the PM.

Hail, I bring you old memes from LG78 once again! If the Durian had actually stopped a kill: GMs telling me about my Durian: Everytime Kas and Wyrm brawl in thread apparently: Also:

Cheers, glad it worked for you, Araris

Post-Mortem/AAR: -Little extra to be said. This is essentially a vanilla game and standard distro demands a three Elim team. Given standard Village performance in QFs and especially vanilla QFs, I feel as though a two Elim team might be possible but I think that would tilt the difficulty against them a bit too much. Ultimately, as Devo said in the dead doc, it's just hard to balance for twelve or eleven players. -Village gave up a vast advantage by being low discussion early on, enabling Team Evil to grab thread control with more ease than they should have had. @Archer— in answer to your question, apart from Mat's PM to Danex, you were in all PMs. That's how little communication was going on. -While inactivity filters can unduly penalise the Village, I feel as though there was little justification for four pinch-hitters in a QF of this size, and it's often difficult to ensure timely replacement in a QF anyway. -I don't really want to have to talk about this, but as was apparent in the dead doc and Elim doc, I became aware early on that a banned player was participating in this game under an alt. It shouldn't be the GM's responsibility to vet every player participating but I will say for any prospective GM going forward who might find themselves in this same position that it is helpful to talk to your IM to ensure compliance on the GMing end, especially if you have been given cause for concern.