Pathfinder

Point of clarity for both sides. The only person that attempted to send Shallan to the bottom of the ocean was Shallan herself. The plan of the ghostbloods seemed to be to kill all on board, and then make an appearance of a ship wreck (I believe about the ship wreck part, but that I will need to confirm). Shallan was the one that soulcasted it to water sending everyone to the ocean floor. edit: @Bigmikey357 actually the diagram did predict Kaladin. It said to look to the one that survives when they should not. edit2: sorry one last thing @Bigmikey357 before I dig to pull up the scenes I referenced. Skybreakers are all about holding to a code. That personal code does not necessarily have to be the law of the land. WoB backs that up. Also Nale admonished a skybreaker that acted recklessly regarding Lift by killing Gawx. Yet that individual was still considered a member of the skybreakers enough to follow around Nale, and he did not have powers much like Heleran. So I do not think Helaran's possible hotheadedness would exclude him from membership of the skybreakers.

Ah my bad. I misread what you were saying. I thought you meant he never met the parsh that raided the grainary to verify whether they were in war form or not. I pulled up the earliest mention of Sah and am re-reading the scene. Will follow up when I get a description of them. Oathbringer page 154 "They looked different from what he expected. For one thing, their skin was a different shade - many parshmen here in Alethkar had marbled white and red skin, rather than the deep red on black like Rlain from Bridge Four. They didn't wear warform, though neither did they wear some terrible, powerful form. Though they were squat and bulky, their only carapace ran along the sides of their forearms and jutted out at their temples, leaving them with full heads of hair." So definitely not warform. Kind of sounds like workform to me.

I would need to go back to the scene to check, but I thought the parsh that Kaladin meets up with were in fact the ones that raided the grainery? I thought that was the lead he used to track them down, and he had to explain to them about milling grain to eat it instead of trying to eat it as is, and about preservation of their stores. Though I admit I am going off a hazy recollection so I could be totally wrong.

Regarding the former, although I concede to the speed, I think a scientific team could find ways to observe the process with cameras and scientific tools. You would just need a willing donor, which is what your premise depends on, to be willing to try it out while there is a team waiting in the cognitive realm with the equipment ready to record. It would not require conversation to see someone in pain, or disfigured. Regarding your later point, although I still maintain that theoretically just because Jasnah and Shallan were not in the state needed to be able to view it, does not preclude access to said state, or developing a means to observe it, I do concede it would be a significant hurdle to the issue I present. Since all of this is theoretical, I do think it is a valid concern, but I do acknowledge your point that if it is not readily observable, then the knowledge would not be immediately accessable, and it could very well result in the practice being employed for years before the full effects and repercussions are discovered. Much like many of our own technological advancements or materials having lethal consequences that were not discovered till years after the fact (cigarettes, radiation, etc). So in summation, I could see it still being an issue, but I do concede that is an excellently referenced WoB that would make said issue harder to come up, if at least initially.

I agree with you on this. I feel the questioner was asking because for a little while people thought that the skybreakers in the books were unpowered individuals who took the name. When it was discovered/confirmed that the radiant order of the skybreakers were very much still a thing, people were wondering if the "mundane" skybreakers were linked to them, or only claimed the name. This to me confirmed they were one in the same, and Helaran's membership was not disputed by Brandon in this WoB, so although not explicit, it is good enough for myself. Though I recognize it would not be enough for others.

All that information is great, and thank you so much for going through the trouble of researching it and typing all that up! Now I will be completely honest, I am reading up the links you provided, but it will take me a bit to wrap my head around it to comment adequately but I always do work better with seeing something, or doing it myself, so I thought of a way that might help process this information. Given all you said, and given what we understand of Kaladin's powers and how they function, could you describe a means, or how Kaladin could accomplish that? For instance first could just increasing the pressure in a defined area around Jasnah result in the higher concentrations of oxygen that you are referring to, to result in the effect you explained? Second, if Kaladin could attain such concentrations of oxygen due to the localized increase in pressure, would the increase in pressure keep the higher concentrations of oxygen contained in that area? Third, is there a way through manipulating pressure, that Kaladin could create a fire piston, or would he have to actually have or make one to employ it? Finally, if all of the above could be accomplished, save the third, my understanding of using a rock to strike a spark relies on the material of the rock being strong enough to maintain its integrity for the friction to cause the resulting spark. Would the resultant combustible nature increase the likelihood of the spark regardless the composition of the rock? Hope I didn't overwhelm you with questions. Just trying to understand the function better and how it would apply to the scenario. Thank you!

My main issue with this is the same as on the other thread. Assuming such technological advances, I would assume Scadrial would grow in awareness of the cognitive realm and learn the way to transfer to it. Exploration of the cognitive realm would allow them to actually see and study what happens to these "donors" on their death bed after they "donate". Now just like in the other thread, let me be explicit, I am not speaking of the beyond. I am speaking solely of the cognitive realm. It is confirmed via WoB that I will be happy to post again that hemalurgy horribly destroys the donor's spirit web that during their brief appearance in the cognitive realm (from holding less investiture than they did originally), their maiming can actually be seen. So for me if the donors become aware that by "donating" a portion of their spirit web, they will get to experience a moment of horrible pain, or horror of mutilation before they transition to whatever may be after (whether it be oblivion or an afterlife), I think the number of donors will decrease dramatically and it will become a human rights issue. Attempting to define whether or not a cognitive self that exists briefly after death is still considered a "human being" with all the rights and legal protections inherent to it. At which point cruel and unusual treatment comes into play which would come into conflict with the practice regardless if the donor voluntarily signed themselves over despite the knowledge. So in summation because of the cognitive realm, unless there is a means to prevent or mitigate this issue, I do not see hemalurgy being as prolific and accepted as posited. Hopefully I did an adequate job explaining what I am referring to.

I agree. To me the biggest advantage of plate is its durability, and strength increase, which would be become a hindrance rather than an aid in a grapple to me. I agree. In the case of the three soldiers, she touched the lead one and shoved him transforming him into crystal that then hit another, transferring the momentum to him and transforming him to them hit another and transforming him. So he most definitely did close on her. I included the page number in a prior post, please give the scene a read so we are on the same page as it were lol. Secondly we are saying Jasnah would be soulcasting the air around her, not Kaladin directly, in which again in that scene we see her soulcast steps while running up them, and soulcast a wall easily without pause so I do not see how Kaladin would change that. See again, you are saying Kaladin is grappling Jasnah, but then magically grows a third arm to do this to a stone while holding her? if you mean he does this after she slips out, again as I said in a prior post Jasnah can then dismiss the fat just as quickly as she changed it as we see her do in the novels. Also again, the stone would have to be a specific type of stone to accomplish this. So is the entire ground flint or is kaladin just insanely lucky to break up the exact rock he needs to lash at her to cause a spark? Because otherwise all he would accomplish is breaking the rock. My point is the plate would not provide any real potential advantages and in fact could potentially hamper such a strategy as in judo choke holds, and joint manipulation is the goal of their grapples which depends on the experience to target them over strength. If you theoretically cannot reach such vulnerabilities, I am not sure how you would capitalize on them, regardless your experience.

Jasnah didn't seem to have any problem peering into the cognitive realm while fighting at thaylenah before the effect of bringing the realms together kicked in. As I mentioned in a prior post she soulcasted steps from the air, soulcasted three men in succession with the "disease like" soulcasting, and soulcasted a wall away to smoke without pause or difficulty. Then Renarin felt the effects of the bringing the realms together. It is not like she cannot see the real world any longer when she soulcasts. What she does is kind of half "dip in" getting a form of double vision. This double vision was even easier during the realms being brought together, but she can still certainly do it (as per her own thoughts) outside that event. As to providing Kaladin with a combustible, how many arms does our dear bridgeman have? Basically the order of events I am gathering from you would be: 1. Kaladin gets in close and grapples Jasnah 2. Jasnah soulcasts fat to attempt to slip out 3. Kaladin while still grappling Jasnah, creates a pressure effect to pull all the near by oxygen in close 4 Kaladin grows an extra hand to then reach out and lash a stone with enough lashes to have it hit the ground creating a spark (which as explained in a prior post would require certain types of stone such as flint, so any old stone wouldn't do) to then blow both Jasnah and himself up So I do not see this being possible for a myriad of reasons. First he would need to get close to her and grapple her. Second she would have to be unable to teleport away which I do not think would be the case. Third, Jasnah soulcasting a layer of fat around her to escape, she could then just soulcast it to smoke or air right after she escapes, like she did with the oil she used to burn the fused. Fourth assuming Kaladin could create the pressure effect that would pull all the oxygen towards them (which I do not think would be possible either), that would be a massive pull on Kaladin's stormlight. Fifth, as shown in a prior post, the amount of lashes it would take to cause a stone to move with enough momentum to create a spark would be yet another massive pull on all of Kaladin's stormlight. Sixth, the likelihood of having the right type of stone nearby to lash to create said spark is incredibly low resulting in just breaking the rock and not actually igniting anything. Finally assuming Kaladin some how accomplishes all of these things, by grappling Jasnah he would also end up blowing himself up, and given all the stormlight he had to use to accomplish all these feats, it is more likely that he would end up burning himself to death than her. Now a separate question is the environment in which our two combatants meet. I was going on the assumption that both parties start in a clear large open stone field. I assumed such a scenario would end up benefiting Kaladin because of his flight capabilities. If however you would like it to be in an enclosed space, I could see that actually benefiting Jasnah. Imagine the opening scenes of Szeth in the castle going for Gavilar, but Jasnah was there to create barriers behind him, above him, below him. Boxing him in. Even if they were made of stone and he had to cut them to get through, that would still slow him down, hamper his maneuverability, and help Jasnah own the battlefield. Grappling, to the best of my knowledge is always more dependent on experience than strength. Judo being a prime example of this. Joint locks and choke holds I am not sure would be as effective on a power armored opponent, regardless if both involved are similarly armored. But I am in no way shape or form a judo expert to know.

So although I do not have concrete evidence to back up what I am about to say, there are two things I feel support it. I believe a radiant using the surge of transportation can exclude anyone they wish when they transport. In other words I do not think just because Kaladin is touching Jasnah, that he would automatically be brought along for the ride. Now as to the two reasons I believe this. First, there is a WoB where an individual asked about the scene where Adolin sees Jasnah throw the fused the length of the alley. That coupled with what she did to the three men (soulcast and push one, that then pushed the next with the same amount of force, that then pushed the next with the same amount of force) led the questioner to wonder if transportation also allowed the wielder to control inertia and do a kind of "force push". Brandon responded that it is possible to move someone else with transportation, but not in the way the person is thinking. I believe Brandon was implying that you could teleport someone away, without also teleporting yourself. I am having some slight difficulty finding it because I cannot think of the wording the person and brandon used and I do not have the time right now to dig properly. If anyone recognized my description, please feel free to post it. Second, the oathgates can transport enmasse, or be selective. Now true it is the difference between the entire platform, vs inside just the control building, but being able to select when people are still on the gate platform denotes to me the ability to be selective. And that is with a fabrial. I would imagine a radiant would have greater proficiency, if not number (be able to be even more selective, even though they probably cannot transport as many as the oathgate). So in summation, I believe that Jasnah could teleport herself away without having to carry Kaladin with her just because he is grappling her. As to using soulcasting, since Kaladin could not lash Jasnah without using a massive amount of his own stores, theoretically jasnah could just soulcast oil/fat all over her own armor to slip out of his grasp.

Hmmmm, maybe water would work best with dustbringers? Split the molecular bonds of H2O, and you get two hydrogen atoms which is highly combustible. In that case then all you would need is the friction portion of abrasion to set it alight. Be careful not to catch a Dustbringer on a rainy day lol

But he is speaking to them and treating them as if they are autonomous entities. I am not saying that to argue whether or not what is going on with Adolin and Shallan is good, bad or in-between. Just adding a bit of info. He goes out drinking with Veil, and I think (going on recollection so am probably wrong) does further sword practice with Radiant.

Glad to hear. I am as well. I did some more reading, and from what I understand O2 and O3 by themselves aren't combustible and would not fuel a flame as it were. As in from what I am getting, just having O3 in the air, and creating a spark is not going to result in all that O3 being engulfed in flame. All it will result in is a larger spark/flash of flame immediately around the spark. In order to get a huge burst of flame, Kaladin would need a combustible fuel source to begin with, such as oil. Then the increased oxygen levels, or O3 would result in a big explosion of fire when the oil was ignited. So as I am reading I am getting more the sense that pressure would not be able to accomplish what Karger is positing, and I am not sure it would even accomplish that with Division (assuming that is how division functions, creating O3, then applying friction for a spark. not saying you are saying that is how it works, just thinking aloud). I love these kind of threads too! So would the liquid oxygen still require to a spark to explode? Also is my understanding that I wrote above to Calderis accurate? I want to make sure I am understanding the concepts correctly. Well Brandon has confirmed that there wouldn't be an avengers style coming together team, but I do think I recall him confirming various magic systems would meet and there would be potentially conflict. So assuming I understand things correctly, then the issue I mentioned in my discussion with Calderis would come up here. oxygen by itself, regardless the concentration (except perhaps liquidification as Quantus mentioned) is not combustible by itself. It only seems to enhance whatever inherent explosive or burnable traits of whatever fuel you are burning at that time. So Kaladin would still need materials outside his own powers to create the kind of explosion you are talking about. A spark alone (seems like) wouldn't do it. Basically when I said the Karger above. The flame itself would be greater, but Kaladin would still need materials to fuel it. Increasing the oxygen content and then sparking it, seems like it wouldn't make the effect you both think. It would make a stronger burst/spark effect, but that would be the extent of it. All the oxygen in the air wouldn't suddenly combust and go up in flames. True, but you would still need the materials to get that started in the first place which a spark from two rocks alone would not (seems to me) accomplish that. Karger already replied with a lot of what I would have said below. I will add a bit myself. Agree on all points regarding Jasnah's capabilities. Those same capabilities is what makes me think it would be very difficult for Kaladin to get the kind of power in the stone lashings, or close enough to accomplish such a hit.

Don't have the time to reply as fully as I wish I could, but in the scene with jezerin and kalak at the very beginning of way of kings, it is mentioned there is still skirmishes going on. This is supported in one of Dalinar's visions when he sees the shin approach the left honorblades. Those skirmishes could be humans aligned with odium, could be non fused listeners, or could be remaining fused lingering before the heralds returned. My point is we don't know. You could be very well right but with the info we have right now, it is a theory, not a foregone conclusion. Each time you quote the stormfather, please quote jasnah shortly after stating the stormfather confirming it weakened, not destroyed, and could still work. edit: apologize if i sound curt, i am on the go. not meant to sound antagonistic or anything if it is read that way.

I may need @Calderis to ring on this a bit because he seems to understand the functions of pressure better, but pressure affects oxygen density. That is why it is harder to breathe the higher up you are. So from what I understand, increasing pressure would increase oxygen content but I do not think it would result in oxygen bonding as O3 instead of O2. O3 being explosively flammable which is what I think you are going for? So that is why even if that was possible, I think Jasnah just soulcasting it to the pure essence of vapor breathable air would negate that. But again, I readily admit there is a lot I do not fully understand about pressure, and I am not sure I fully understand what you are getting at. Regarding dropping a rock, the type of rock matters. theoretically all rocks could create a spark, but the reason certain ones are selected is due to being able to hold up enough to the force to allow the resulting friction to create the spark. Most rocks would end up crumbling or just breaking. So the action of lashing a rock at a the ground really fast would not by itself cause enough of a spark to cause ignition. It would need to be flint, or in a similar family. Also back in oathbringer, Kaladin used several lashes to hit the fused resulting in a blow that just hurt the fused, so by extension I would imagine to create the effect you are offering, the number of lashes would have to be vastly greater. I could see Jasnah potentially fooling Kaladin as we see her do exactly that by hiding infused gemstones sewn into her clothing that enabled her to survive her encounter with the ghostbloods. As to the rest, I still disagree but like I said, I do not really see us meeting in the middle on this. I would love to, honestly I would, but I just do not see Kaladin based on how I have seen him act would do so. You feel based on how you have seen him act he would. At this point we would just be repeating our same arguments as there isn't anything beyond what we have already said that would be concrete enough to convince the other. So I respect your belief that Kaladin would learn to employ his stormlight in the way you posit, I just disagree. I wish you luck with your theory! Who knows, we may see exactly that in the next book with Kaladin attaining his 4th oath. That is why in that post I mentioned about being able to soulcast the alloy. I believe I was the one that posted that WoB. The default is the pure metal. You have to intend to soulcast the alloy, but it is possible. So I was suggesting she would soulcast an aluminum alloy a foot thick on each wall. Brandon has said a thin sleeve of aluminum was enough to block. I think there was also a WoB that said the rough amount of aluminum would not need to be much but I would have to dig for it to be sure.

Lol you are right, herald returns first, then the fused. Though my point still stands regarding the end of the desolation and the oathpact. Maybe when the heralds give in to the torture, they are all transported back to roshar, while the voidbringers then have to gather and make the transition? I do not know why, but I keep getting this feeling like the thread from the dragon riders of pern.

ok let me try again. The only thing we know for sure regarding the oathpact is in order for the desolation to end the heralds have to return to torture whether through death or voluntary right? So you and @Scion of the Mists are saying because the fused are returning via the everstorm, that shows the oathpact isn't working. Except the heralds are on roshar. They haven't returned yet to seal them away. If the heralds returned for torture to seal the fused away, but despite that the fused kept returning via the everstorm, then I would totally agree with you. Thing is, they haven't. They are all on Roshar right now. Taln returned remember? Taln showed up before the everstorm was a thing. So we do not have any evidence that shows conclusively that the everstorm jumped the oathpact yet. What the stormfather said is not conclusive because Jasnah says right after that the stormfather said it was weakened not destroyed. We have WoB confirming it was not destroyed. So I still do not see anything yet that conclusively proves the everstorm makes the oathpact useless.

So then the implication based on what you are saying is when Malata made the etching in the wood, she was using both surges, not just division since it smoked and smelled of burning? Hmmm, makes me wonder then how the skybreaker division would manifest since they wouldn't have abrasion to ignite it. Not sure how that surge would benefit them while flying in the air. This also causes a problem for my idea that a dustbringer or skybreaker would be able to take on jasnah, because whatever they "break" she could just soulcast into a non-flammable composition.

Ok, could you point to me to the page in the books, or a WoB that says in the original desolations that killing a fused was enough to lock it away before the heralds returned? Basically the implication I am getting from you is you are saying the process is this: 1. Fused return 2. Heralds return 3. fused is killed, it dies for good 4. when all fused are killed, heralds return 5 end of desolation 6. fused return (rinse repeat) The fused have no problem returning, and seem fully confident they could repeatedly. I see no indicator that confirms unequivically that what you posit is true. As far as we know the process is: 1. fused return 2. heralds return 3. fused are killed but continue to return 4. function of herald when fighting back the fused ultimately seals them away 5. heralds return Basically what I am saying is we do not know that during the prior desolations that the fused couldn't return after dying. As far as we know the heralds have to push them back to a point where they can accomplish something, sending them back. Basically we do not know how the oathpact functions, nor how the everstorm functions to know conclusively that the heralds going back, dying, or well anything would not accomplish anything. I also think the fact that Odium is making a point to kill the heralds for good says there is something to what Jasnah is reasoning. Edit: got a whole lot of WoB to post, and then will add my reading of those WoB. if you end up responding while I am typing this, I will refer @Scion of the Mists back to this. here we go! I tried posting this but when I pasted the WoB in, the formatting got a bit wonky. So I will write my interpretation here. The oathpact exists as long as the Heralds are alive and visa versa. The desolation ends when they return for torture. No mention of stopping the fused from returning by killing them. The herald has to return to stop it. Otherwise it continues. The oathpact is still in effect since the heralds are mostly still alive. So again, we do not know enough to say that the heralds could not stop the fused from returning by going back. it is reasonable to consider that that function could still be in place even despite the everstorm. Questioner (paraphrased) Was Odium able to Splinter Honor because the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Good question. Um, their abandonment of the Oathpact is related... but mostly tangentially. If I was pinned down on that, I would say no. Questioner (paraphrased) Is there any of the Oathpact still functioning because of Taln's continued participation? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, indeed. Questioner With the Heralds we know that there's only one left... one Herald that's still bound to the Oathpact-- Brandon Sanderson OK, only one Herald was about, was abandoned-- You'll find out the mechanics of that in the next book. Questioner So are we going to see more of Taln... Brandon Sanderson You will see more of-- the Oathpact is not completely broken, the others are still bound to the Oathpact. Questioner Even though they kind of sort of said they were abandoning it? Brandon Sanderson Yes, so there's still connection there, so you'll find out more about all of this and how it works. luke.spence (paraphrased) What caused a Desolation to end? Was it just the defeat of Odium's forces? Because the Desolations start when the Heralds break under torture. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Because the Heralds can no longer be in existence. There is a certain period of time that they can be there, and after that, if they're there, they will start a new one. So the Heralds do need to leave for a Desolation to end darkanimereal1 (paraphrased) Oh. So they've got a time limit. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) They do. Otherwise the Desolation will start again. What they discovered is not all of them have to. As long as one remains, the Desolation will not start again. luke.spence (paraphrased) So, by the nine leaving, did that actually break the Oathpact for them? Did it change the cycle of Desolations? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) They have not completely broken the Oathpact, despite what they may think. Questioner So Odium is trapped on a planet near Roshar. Now that Talenelat is no longer being bound wherever he's at, does that mean that Odium's imminence is-- Brandon Sanderson Taln still is keeping to the Oathpact. So there is that. But [Odium's] being bound is greater than the Oathpact. luke.spence (paraphrased) How many parties were there to the original Oathpact? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) The Heralds and Honor. They thought that by walking away from their oaths, that it would break the Oathpact. They're going to find out that it's not quite as broken as they had previously thought (meaning the Heralds). Questioner Are all of the Heralds still alive? Brandon Sanderson The Oathpact has not been broken, so yes. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Is it possible for a Returned with sufficient knowledge, to sacrifice themselves to mend the Oathpact? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No, not without work. It just wouldn't work naturally that way. So no, I mean technically any Investiture... with that amount of Investiture, there's like, a chance they could do something like you want to do. But I'm going to say, kind of, would be no.

Not being critical, I am asking genuine questions because I would like to understand the function better. So you are saying an external ignition source needs to be introduced when a dustbringer does their thing? How does Malata do the burn etching on the wood, and Amaram seemingly ignite the air when battling Kaladin? Or are you saying the mixture would be so volatile, that just a normal temperature level would be enough to ignite it?

Thing is from what I have seen of Kaladin time and time in the book, I do not see any time that he has realized he has a problem. All I see is the same issue coming up time and again, and Kaladin still doing the same thing afterwards. But regarding this point it looks like we have reached an impasse so I will agree to disagree. I readily agree Jasnah's means of teleportation is not precise. For her it would more be used as a get out of jail free card than as a means to actively attack. Willshapers on the other hand I think could potentially have nightcrawler like teleportation. That is why in a prior post I could see a willshaper getting the drop on Jasnah and stabbing her through the eye hole of her helm with a shardblade to kill her. The problem would be the willshaper would need to leave the blade in long enough to exhaust her stormlight, but I think there is enough potential ways of accomplishing that (wiggle the blade around once inside to do more damage, have the blade be reverse barbed so as to cause more damage when it is moved, make the shardblade a hammer and bring it down on her head with all your force, etc) that a willshaper could win doing so. To hopefully clarify things. My purpose in this is not to say Kaladin is weak, or his powers suck. They do not. I am however saying that the advantage of the versatility of soulcasting coupled with transportation, and finally Jasnah's capabilities with both powers would lead to her being able to counter and defeat Kaladin's uses of his powers. For instance Kaladin's skillset would be more effective against a truthwatcher, an edgedancer, stoneward or willshaper. All of those require getting in close to kill in varying degrees which as you said Kaladin benefits from. So whereas the willshaper would trump the elsecaller by getting in close before she could stop it, the windrunner would trump the willshaper by not being affected by cohesion by flying, and could hold off the willshaper when it teleported close. Hopefully that explained why I am going about this the way I am. Again, I do not think we have enough information to say that lashing intrinsically takes less stormlight than soulcasting. Lashing also needs to overcome the object's investiture to lash it, otherwise you would be able to lash shardplate. As to what makes me think he wouldn't learn is because as I said, to me, there is no difference whatsoever (in tone, in circumstance, in stakes) between the battle at Theylenah, and any other instance that he burned through his stormlight. So I do not see a reason for him to suddenly change tactics/view after that moment, when he did not for all the other moments. You see there is one. That is why at this juncture I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. This portion confuses me, you wrote: "Kaladin will use more Stormlight than Jasnah in a given battle." then "In most battles he will run out before Jasnah will." but then you say "and if he can run her dry even as he runs dry himself he wins". If Kaladin would drain himself before Jasnah, then that would mean she would still have stormlight left over, which means he would be uninvested (or at least less than when holding stormlight) for her to soulcast him away. So the sentences seem to contradict themselves to me. One says he would blaze through it, but another says he would conserve it and outlast her. I'm starting to get lost here. I believe it was mentioned in a prior post of mine, but the aluminum box idea was originally just towards a non-shardplate using version of Kaladin. That is why it switched to aluminum coarse dust going right in the face to be inhaled and get into the eyes. Though as long as jasnah understands enough about the metal, she could soulcast aluminum alloys, and soulcast a very thick box. Shardplate increases strength, but there is still a limit. I do not think shardplate could punch a hole through a wall of metal a foot thick. Maybe dent it possibly? Kaladin has made plenty of tactical mistakes in combat, and has been caught flatfooted on numerous occasions. So he is just as fallible as Jasnah in that regard. But that is more opinion than something definable that we could reference. Thanks for the info about pressure and how it interacts with the human body! Always love learning new things! Very interesting! But then Jasnah could just soulcast the ozone into breathable oxygen. Interesting! I think burning takes a bit longer because you have to regrow brand new flesh vs sealing prior wounds, or expunging toxins. That is part of the reason why I think a dustbringer or skybreaker would have a better chance against an elsecaller than a windrunner. If you are saying the burns by changing the ozone in such a way as to be flammable, then I refer again to Jasnah just soulcasting it to fresh oxygen preventing combustion. The surge of division on the other hand breaks molecular bonds that (although I do not fully understand the process, so if anyone can better explain it, I would love to hear it), some how allows you to literally set anything on fire. Which I could see working against Jasnah.

We do not know this for sure. The stormfather said it was weakened but we also have WoB that say it is not as broken as the heralds think. Jasnah believes there is a potential for it to still accomplish something. We do not know how the heralds accomplished sealing the fused away in the past to assume that just because the fused return in the everstorm means the heralds cannot seal them again. Also there is the point that Odium is trying to kill the heralds for good, so that implies they are a potential threat. Whether that is from them regaining their sanity and joining the fight, or being able to seal the fused away we do not know. So I am not saying the Everstorm can't be a loophole around the heralds, but at this time we do not know it is a loophole. We know very little about what the Everstorm exactly does.

From what I understand the production of air aiding in space travel is to prevent explosive decompression of the oxygen in your body. So Kaladin would still need to continually produce air to breath, that is then pulls away into the void of space. Same would work in reverse. I do not believe he could create a strong enough vacuum regardless his power that could swallow enough oxygen to counter the fact that jasnah is in an open area. At the end of the day we aren't even sure if kaladin would be capable of this ability at all as the closest we have seen is a weak gravity well effect that at its strongest pulled arrows towards it. Also in book confirmed that it has to be in flight because otherwise the objects tie to the ground would make it harder to pull. So since we are just spit balling around at this point, I have no problem agreeing to disagree on this.

Because in an open space you would need to remove oxygen from the entire area? Air would rush in to fill the vacuum you are placing around Jasnah. If they were both in a sealed room sure, or if Jasnah was in a sealed space then totally, but if they are out in the open, I do not see that working the way you think it would. edit: maybe this illustration would help. Take a 10 gallon tank of water. Puncture a hole in its side. Water goes out that hole till the tank is empty. Great, if that was oxygen and Jasnah was trapped in there then great, you accomplished your goal. Now take the same idea, and puncture a hole in the ocean. How long do you think it would take to empty the ocean? So too, how long do you think it would take to remove all the oxygen in the atmosphere to then suffocate Jasnah standing out in the open?

To the best of my recollection the bends is the effect of a change in pressure effecting the oxygen in your lungs/in your bloodstream. That is why deep divers surfacing fast need to exhale the oxygen in their lungs as they go to prevent the bends. It is to try and keep equilibrium. Now let us break down this scenario. Has Kaladin somehow gotten Jasnah into a small enclosed place? If not, then creating a vacuum will not do much because the surrounding air will rush in to fill it. So now you are saying Kaladin is somehow expelling all air in the space directly around Jasnah and maintaining that long enough to go through her stormlight and then suffocate her?