Pathfinder

Personally I disagree. Breeding creatures whose claw is the size of an entire person does not sound easier than using radiant surges coupled with fabrial science, and heralds who used such technological marvels for ages to provide a leg up. But to each their own.

Way of Kings page 87 "Well, let us move on to science, then" Jasnah said, tone displeased "What can you say about yourself there?" "I have the reasonable foundation in the sciences you might expect of a young woman my age" Shallan said, more stiffly than she would have liked. "Which means?" "I can speak with skill about geography, geology, physics, and chemistry. I've made a particular study of biology and botany, as I was able to pursue them with a reasonable level of independence on my father's estate. But if you expect me to be able to solve Fabrisan's Conundrum with a wave of my hand, I suspect you shall be disappointed." Brandon has said Scadial is further along in technological advancement regarding metallurgy than they should be at their period of time due to the importance of metals in allomancy and feruchemy. Personally I do not feel it would be farfetched to feel Rosharans would place a greater importance on finding additional ways of producing gemstones considering their entire infrastructure depends on it.

High heat like the surge of division? Pressure like the surge of well.....pressure? lol

And @Truthwatcher_17.5 was referring to the power itself. Renarin did not consciously activate it. That makes the effect passive. Whether or not Renarin acts on this information does not negate that the power itself is passive for most of the books. Now whether or not Renarin will learn how to use it more actively remains to be seen. As to whether Renarin knowingly urged Shallan to go with the intention of her being present confounding Odium, I do not personally think is the case. Renarin tried his best to warn of the storm in the only way he knew how, and the storm still came. He was genuinely shocked that the future could be changed with what happened to his father. Keep in mind, the most we have seen of Renarin trying to warn people of something was the coming storm, and he thought that didn't work. Otherwise he doesn't warn anyone of anything else he sees. He is trying to be a "normal" radiant. Focusing on trying to use lightweaving like Shallan. I do think because he saw the future, his unconscious actions, and reactions to the knowledge resulted in changes, but I do not think they were intentional. To illustrate. Lets say I knew someone was going to die of a disease that cannot be cured. I feel I cannot change the future. By result I could be distraught and upset or do my best to focus and enjoy the time I have left with that person. The people around me will notice this, and end up taking actions or doing things they would not have done originally. As result a totally unrelated scenario never comes to be. The person still dies of the disease. I still think I cannot change the future, but in the background a whole bunch of stuff has changed. A number of things I will not notice, till everything comes together, and suddenly a massively different outcome occurs. At least that is how I read what was happening with Renarin. Now where things will go now that he realizes he can change things, I do not know, but I can't wait to find out!

We don't know if chasmfiends could be raised in captivity. Also remember they have a rudimentary understanding of molecules (axi) and quantum mechanics (the ardents observing and measuring spren). So they are not as backwards in knowledge as you think.

Once the effects of chasmfiend hunting ends up like the whales on our world, research into producing synthetic gemstones might accelerate rather quickly. It already has happened to a degree with the lanceryns. Add chasmfiends to the list, and the potential limitation on gemstones of the size desired could lead into some scientific break throughs. I would liken it to what will happen with the discovery of aluminum through electrolysis. Huge game changers. Not saying it will happen overnight by any stretch. Just I could see it coming up, and I could see it developing quickly in ways that will shape the rest of roshar.

Well his advisors are the Skaze, who need a figure head to do what they want so.......lol

I agree on all points.

There is a grand tradition of people owning shards and lending them out to others. As per Vorinism, if you win them, you own them. Doesn't matter whether you are light eyes or dark. Full stop. Anything else on Amaram's part is purely rationalization in an attempt to excuse what he did. Which was stealing and killing. The lighteyed archer got the plate because he got the kill and thereby won the shards. Kaladin pointed out that Jost's father was no where near the right region where shards were being employed in battle so Jost's father lied. Regardless I feel like this is taking an awful lot a tangential information, and trying to string it together to mean something completely different. As per the tradition, if you win the shards, they are yours, and you can do whatever you want with them. There isn't any fine print stating a 5 second rule like when food touches the floor. Amaram doesn't get to say "hey he is giving them away to the wrong person! I get to call dibs!". Its not his right to say. It is not his call. Kaladin said "Those shards are mine". And they are. He could bequeath them to a snail. The snail would get to have fun trying to defend itself from others trying to duel it, but it doesn't change that the ownership would transfer to the snail. Nothing in Vorinism (and by extension the Sons of Honor) says otherwise.

Once synthetic gemstones are developed, the cost of producing fabrials could be reduced.

Here's another one. People saying that Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher to forget Evi. That did not happen. Dalinar went to ask for forgiveness, which confused the Nightwatcher. Then when Cultivation stated she would have to remove the memories of Evi, Dalinar at first refused, but then accepted because he felt he was not worthy of her. People can feel free to dislike that Dalinar accepted the terms, but that does not change the specifics of the event. I will update this post as well with the quote in a bit. Oathbringer page 1077 "What would you like?" she asked "Renown? Wealth? Skill? Would you like to be able to swing a sword and never tire?" "No" Dalinar whispered "Beauty? Followers? I can feed your dreams, make you glorious." Her dark mists wrapped around him. The tiny tendrils tickled his skin. She brought her face right up to his again. "What is your boon?" Dalinar blinked tears, listening to the sounds of children dying in the distance, and whispered a single word "Forgiveness" "Perhaps it is possessions you wish" she said "Spheres, gemstones. Shards. A blade that bleed darkness and cannot be defeated. I can give it to you" "Please" Dalinar said, drawing in a ragged breath "Tell me. Can I.... can I ever be forgiven?" "A boon and a curse" the Mother said "That is how it is done. I will take these things from your mind. And with them, I take her" "I..." Dalinar tried to speak as plant life engulfed him "Wait!" "Speak" "You'll take...." He spoke with difficulty. "You'll take Evi from me? "All memories of her. This is the cost. Should I forbear? Dalinar squeezed his eyes shut. Evi..... He had never deserved her. "Do it." he whispered.

Having your eyes change color takes time from bonding. When Moash was gifted the shards by Kaladin, Adolin stated Moash immediately gains the standing associated from owning plate and blade. Once you win them, they are yours, period, to do with what you wish. There isn't some "transitional" stage where you have them, but you don't technically own them. Kaladin said it himself. He claimed them. He then chose to bestow his claim to another person. He did the exact same thing with Adolin and Dalinar. There was no discussion of him not being a light eyes then. So I do not see how what Kaladin did with Amaram, is any different in any way than with Adolin and Dalinar. Words of Radiance page 781 "Fine" Adolin said, striding back into the room "You. Moash, was it? I guess those Shards are yours, now. Congratulations. You now outrank ninety percent of Alethkar. Pick yourself a family name and ask to join one of the houses under Dalinar's banner, or start your own if you are inclined" Literally Kaladin won the shards. He owns them and holds the rank. He named Moash. Moash now owns the shards and is of rank. Pretty cut and dry.

True true. Amaram did remark how Taln's dark eyes must be a disguise. A dark eyed herald does not fit in with the vorin narrative. Ah gotcha. Though my intention was more to respond to the other's suggestion that Amaram would accept Kaladin claiming the plate and blade because he is a warrior, when to me, Kaladin did claim it, and Amaram did not respect his decision upon claiming it. Yeah, consciously acting to bring about the end of the world is a pretty big problem I have with Amaram.

Personally I think until the point Renarin realized the future could be changed, he was unconsciously changing it in tiny ways. Basically just the knowledge of something changes how you will react to it. That is the whole principle behind atium. Renarin seeing the future, regardless if in the short term his actions do not change anything, further down in ways he cannot predict he has changed other things. So for instance, whereas Renarin's goal about warning about the storm was to prevent it, and he failed, it could be argued his warning could have inadvertently driven Kaladin forward in his oaths by bringing Elhokar's near assassination to its head. It afforded Moash the perfect opportunity that he may not have taken when he did. Basically I am saying Renarin's future sight acted like the butterfly effect. The shear fact he could see it, changed things in tiny ways no one could predict. Now that he is conscious of his ability to change it, I think he will become more proactive.

Nope. As far as I am concerned, it read it exactly as intended. If the argument put forward, was that Amaram had a problem with it only because Kaladin rejected the Shards, then Amaram should, as per honor, vorin tradition, and society, respected Kaladin's choice in picking what Kaladin feels is the most effective fighter to use them. I would argue right back that if it was not for Kaladin, Coreb and the rest, Amaram would have been dead. Amaram and his troops broke before the enemy. It was Kaladin's men that saved them. So I do not think Amaram has a leg to stand on (literally as his horse fell on his leg) to say that he is the better fighter. A warrior of great skill that earned the plate that Amaram set up a lie in order to be seen as the legitimate owner. Doesn't matter if it is fun or not. The honorable, vorin, cultural thing to do would be to take them (as we see mentioned numerous times as per tradition), and if Kaladin asked for them back, to give them back. It is said at least 5 times. Amaram would have no recourse to refuse, unless he dueled Kaladin which would bring shame upon him. So instead he did the equivalency of a back alley stabbing. But again, this is in response to the point you and @Grytorm posited. That the reason Amaram did what he did was: "And I have always had this idea that Amaram might not have stolen the shards if Kaladin had taken them" Kaladin did take them. He bequethed his ownership to Coreb as the one to take them. An individual Kaladin named as a great fighter and capable soldier. As per tradition, vorin, and culture, that is valid and binding. Amaram stole them for himself. Can you please quote me something where Amaram says this? I quoted the book and to me Amaram stated very clearly "You see, the men must believe that I killed him." And once again go back to all the other quotes. Where Amaram says Taln can return to glory. That Amaram and Dalinar should go with just Dalinar's army to face the parshendi for glory. That Jasnah stated Amaram would tear their armies apart just to be seen as the savior (yet again glory). The religion he wants to bring back to power, its main tenet is gaining glory through following your calling. When you do get your WoK, please let me know, because I would prefer quotes to support that view. At this rate I may really have to block off a chunk of time to write that thread where I pull up every Amaram quote, because what I have seen so far, definitely stresses glory.

Helaran was aiming to join the organization of the skybreakers, and was provided a dead shardblade to use by them. So you could belong to the organization, but not the order at the same time and thereby be able to wield one.

Updated to include quote for reference.

That Jasnah killed the four murderers just to teach Shallan a philosophy lesson. That is not the reason. Shallan assumed that. Jasnah responded and spelled it out clear as day from her own lips. People can feel free to have an issue with the morality of the action, but the fact of the matter is that was not Jasnah's reason for doing it. Way of Kings page 530 “Philosophy in action. An important lesson for you.” “You did all this just to prove a point,” Shallan said softly. “You did this to prove to me that you could. Damnation, Jasnah, how could you do something like that?” Jasnah didn’t reply. Shallan stared at the woman, searching for emotion in those expressionless eyes. Stormfather. Did I ever really know this woman? Who is she, really? Jasnah leaned back, watching the city pass. “I did not do this just to prove a point, child. I have been feeling for some time that I took advantage of His Majesty’s hospitality. He doesn’t realize how much trouble he could face for allying himself with me. Besides, men like those …” There was something in her voice, an edge Shallan had never heard before. What was done to you? Shallan wondered with horror. And who did it? “Regardless,” Jasnah continued, “tonight’s actions came about because I chose this path, not because of anything I felt you needed to see. However, the opportunity also presented a chance for instruction, for questions. Am I a monster or am I a hero? Did I just slaughter four men, or did I stop four murderers from walking the streets? Does one deserve to have evil done to her by consequence of putting herself where evil can reach her? Did I have a right to defend myself? Or was I just looking for an excuse to end lives?” “I don’t know,” Shallan whispered. “You will spend the next week researching it and thinking on it. If you wish to be a scholar—a true scholar who changes the world—then you will need to face questions like this. There will be times when you must make decisions that churn your stomach, Shallan Davar. I’ll have you ready to make those decisions.”

Quote shown below: Way of Kings Page 702 "Look" kaladin said "Those Shards are mine. Well, I said to give them to Coreb. He's the highest ranked of my soldiers, and the best fighter among them." ...... "I couldn't risk them telling what they saw. This is what must be, soldier. It's for the good of the army. They're going to be told that your squad helped the Shardbearer. You see, the men must believe that I killed him." "You're taking the Shards for yourself!" "I am trained in the sword" Amaram said "and am accustomed to plate. It will serve Alethkar best if I bear the Shards." "you could have asked me for them! Storm you!" "And when news got around camp?" Amaram said grimly "That you'd killed the Shardbearer but I had the Shards? Nobody would believe that you'd given them up of your own free choice. Besides, son. You wouldn't have let me keep them." Amaram shook his head "You'd have changed your mind. in a day or two, you'd have wanted the wealth and the prestige - others would convince you of it. You'd have demanded that I return them to you. So Amaram is caught multiple times in a lie here. First he claims he is doing it because he is the most skilled, yet just a few moments earlier Kaladin, as owner of the plate and blade, gave them to Coreb, who he stated was the highest ranked and best fighter on his team. So it is not about skill, because it would have gone to the person Kaladin deemed the most skilled in the fine tradition that kings and rulers even follow. The king or ruler owns the plate, but a battle worthy individual wields it for the king or ruler. Then when Kaladin says he would have given Amaram the shards, Amaram claims it is because nobody would believe that he would have gotten them honestly from Kaladin. But then he back pedals, and says how Kaladin would want them back anyway. If Amaram admired the warrior Kaladin is, and would have let Kaladin keep the shards, then why wouldn't he give the shards back if Kaladin asked for them if Kaladin was the better warrior? So to me, what it comes down to it is the one sentence in all of this that was the truth "You see, the men must believe that I killed him". Amaram had to be the one to win the shards. He had to have the glory.

And to no ones surprise, I disagree lol. If that was the case, then Amaram would have let Kaladin bequeath the shardplate to one of the darkeyes, which is exactly what Kaladin said. That that guy (forgetting his name at the moment), would be more effective in the shardplate than him. It is then that Amaram claimed to rationalize that the plate and blade would be better used by himself than a dark eyed. (will add the quote in a bit)

I was referring to these WoB, which are more recent: Coltonx9 Why do the gems in Jasnah's Soulcaster break when she is using her own ability in the first book? Brandon Sanderson Jasnah is very good at fooling people. Footnote: This may be a mistake. Shallan has also caused gems to crack when Soulcasting in Words of Radiance chapter 7. Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 22, 2018) The Forumlurker (paraphrased) If a Radiant tried to Soulcast directly with the Stormlight from the Highstorm, what essences could they create? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) They could basically do whatever they want. There wouldn't be any limitations, but only for Radiant Soulcasters. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) Darkness (paraphrased) Further on in that… do different gemstones hold a different flavor, or different "frequency" of Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Umm…. Nnnnnnnnooooooo… But kind of? Here's the thing: So with the gemstones on Roshar… scientifically some of these gemstones are just really close to one another. Like chemical formula and whatever. But, their cognitive selves and their spiritual selves are gonna be very different because of human perception, right? (sure) And so, the answer is both a no and a yes because of that. So people's perception has sort of changed how the magic works, to an extent… but it's the same amount of investiture, just with slightly different flavorings. Darkness (paraphrased) Right, so… is it easier for a Soulcaster to turn rock into smoke with a smokestone as opposed to a ruby? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) So… Soulcasting… is gonna really depend on whether you're using a soulcaster. Darkness (paraphrased) First is for a Soulcaster, second is for a Surgebinder. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) A Surgebinder is far less constrained than someone using a device accessing surges, right? A Knight Radiant is far less constrained than somebody using a mechanical means of accessing magic, and I would include Honorblades as a mechanical means of accessing a surge. Darkness (paraphrased) Cool! So with the whole Jasnah scene, she inhales Stormlight, for using Soulcasting. So how is it the Soulcaster appears to glow more fiercely instead of growing dimmer in that scene? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Um… heh heh heh… So… this is perception on Shallan's part, watching and kind of resonating with the Soulcasting, and some weird things are happening that she sees, and not necessarily anyone else is seeing. Darkness (paraphrased) I love that! Alright… Also, did Taravangian recognize that Jasnah was not Soulcasting traditionally? Like was it the hand sinking into the rock that gave it away? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Taravangian knew and already suspected. Supanova 2017 - Sydney (June 16, 2017) and finally a WoB regarding soulcasting materials that may be pertinent to the point of the original thread. GreenRover Can you Soulcast things into plastic? Like, from the oil Essence? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, you could. You could Soulcast things to plastic. You'd need to work with the magic, but you could. Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

Honestly I think you are underselling the gains of an aluminum body versus a shardblade. Killing the limb requires you to sever the "trunk" of the link. Same thing with organs. So if you have an aluminum alloy that strengthens the durability of the metal to withstand the blow, then the kandra would receive shardblade wounds, but wouldn't lose as large chunks of flesh as you posit. I could easily see a scenario where a shardblade wielding person, swings on a Kandra, just for the blade to get blocked by the arm, and the person being so stunned that an arm stopped the blade, the kandra would knock it out of the wielder's hand, requiring it to be resummoned, during which the kandra could theoretically have already killed the wielder before then.

Lol just got back from Canada yesterday. Picked the Black Eagles. Love me some mages! @Jaywalk and @Wyndlerunner looks like the black eagles are a very popular class, both here and according to nintendo lol

But my point, (as @Quantus eloquently puts) is why is mushrooms in particular, out of all the things on Roshar, so much more complicated than anything else a soulcaster can make? Shallan says you can soulcast mineral deposits into rock to then be mined. Jasnah, had she been better with organics, could have soulcasted the jam, removing the poison. That means she had to soulcast a complicated foodstuff, which was produced, not natural (puree of various fruits, sugar, pectin, boiled, skimmed, then boiled water around it) and completely transform it into itself all over again, to remove the poison which permeated the jam. The poison wasn't just a film at the top that she skimmed away via soulcasting. It was mixed in so any bite would be lethal. So that means remaking the entire thing. Just because Jasnah is not as skilled at organics, does not mean it isn't possible. Then lets look at what happened with Shallan. As mentioned further down by @cometaryorbit, Jasnah soulcasts the blood in Shallan's body to get rid of the poison. So now you are having to focus on an extremely intricate and extensive system to soulcast it all to blood, to remove the poison, all without killing Shallan. For me, if a soulcaster can do all of that, and we also know for a fact via WoB, that you could make plutonium, the only limiter being knowledge and understanding, then I would imagine mushrooms would certainly be capable of being soulcasted. I agree on every point. It is still a system of magic that takes skill and training to use. Jasnah is extremely proficient in the art, and we hear her wax on to Shallan about the tricks she learned to better employ it. That doesn't speak to me of a system without limits. But also take into account as per WoB, Stormlight is written with the intention of it being a highly invested planet, and the resulting effects of that. Only point of clarity, is there is a WoB that, to me, strongly implies that Radiant Soulcasters do not require specific gemstones to soulcast. The fabrials are the ones with that limitation. As we discuss this, I find it interesting that @subvisualhaze sees changing an object's composition, or creating something is being seen as a magic without limits, but we have radiants that can burn anything, change the direction and force of gravity on anything, can heal almost any wound no matter how grievous the injury is so long as the brain is not dead, turn paper into as strong as steel to use as a shield, turn solid rock into putty, and completely remove friction from anything. Personally I think all of those are in the same league of soulcasting, and none of the above is without limit. Interesting points regarding soulcasting Ice, and what essences are associated.

It could be said that since the glasses allow Renarin to have normal vision, in his head, normal vision is the norm. So stormlight just made the norm, permanent. Perhaps if he was in a situation where his vision was failing, and he did not have access to corrective lenses, then he would have had to adjust to living with the poor vision, and thereby stormlight would not heal it. I would extend this theory to being blind as well.