Pathfinder

So found it, but its not a WoB. It is Jasnah speaking to Shallan in Oathbringer page 1179: "Not too far" Jasnah warned "You can't bring your physical self into the realm, as I once assumed you could, but there are things here that can feast upon your mind."

So I have my own theory regarding Adolin and Maya. I have gotten a lot of flak for this theory because people feel it is taking things away from Adolin. I do not feel that is the case. The title of this thread is "Do you think its possible for adolin to bring mayalaran back from the dead". I do, and I am going to say how I think it is possible. If that does not work for anyone else, I respect that, and wish you luck, but that does not change my belief in my theory. So now that that is all stated here is my theory: What we know via WoB: 1. just stating the oaths of the order, if you are not the original knight radiant, is not enough 2. something extra must be done 3. dead spren have something ripped out of them. The equivalency is having a jack in your head be forcibly ripped out, chunky and all, leaving a gaping hole. So how do we fix that? The bond with a shardblade I believe is a faux bond created with the aid of stormlight in the gemstone placed in the pommel. It is not a radiant bond. It is taking a third thing, to mimic it, and provide minimal functionality. I believe Adolin has strengthened this faux bond, so he gets a little more out of it, but it is still not a full bond. Dalinar has had the same exact (to me) experiences with oathbringer as Adolin and Maya. Adolin felt an urging from Maya. Dalinar in Way of Kings while fighting the chasmfiend felt an urging from Oathbringer. Maya remembers Adolin and demonstrates increased sapience. Dalinar when holding Oathbringer as a radiant, heard Oathbringer not scream as loud, and stormfather explained that Oathbringer remembers Dalinar and his actions. That demonstrates increased sapience. The reason Adolin was able to experience this while not being a radiant at the time was because the realms were closer together. Brandon confirmed that distance does in fact matter regarding the number of heartbeats to summon a shardblade, just normally you would never experience or notice the discrepancy. Spren are beings of investiture. They had a huge chunk ripped out of them. The current connection is not enough (for me) to forge a full bond, as Brandon has said something more is needed. Investiture interferes with other investiture. A radiant cannot manipulate another radiant's surge or plate. For myself, I believe that chunk needs to be restored in order to awaken the spren, and bond it in true. Who has investiture manipulating powers? Dalinar. Who had connection manipulating powers? Dalinar. Who can bypass the investiture interference to manipulate another radiant's surge? Dalinar. So what does all this mean? I think Dalinar in his capacity as a bondsmith using the "scaffolding" that Adolin's strengthened faux bond has created, can force through a large infusion of investiture, healing the huge gaping hole in Maya, allowing her to become a living spren once more than Adolin can then bond. That without Adolin increasing the faux bond, this could not happen. Without a bondsmith, this could not happen. Which is why in all the thousands of years, it has not occurred. We have seen Shardbearers increase their connection to shardblades in the past. What has not been for thousands of years, is a real bondsmith radiant. I do not feel this takes anything away from Adolin as it requires Dalinar and Adolin to work together. I do not think this takes anything away from Adolin as it would require him to then teach others to deepen their bond to their shardblades. And finally I think this is going to lead to an arms race in grabbing up every shardblade that they can so they can awaken them and increase the knights radiant numbers, while the enemy tries to prevent it. That is my theory. I wish everyone luck with their own.

As per WoB, when the heralds and co traveled from Ashyn to Roshar, they used magic that was instantaneous like the oathgates. His words. So there are other options than walking through the cognitive realm. We just have not seen them on screen yet.

The OP said future books. In the future Odium may not be a problem, or leaving might be preferable. I agree. I personally at this point in time do not feel we can come up with a precise set of criteria. One could say world hoppers would either need the power set, or the knowledge, but then that discounts the possibility of running into and being recruited by an existing worldhopper (Hoid, Mraize, etc). So outwardly an individual could have none of the hallmarks of a worldhopper you mentioned, but because of something that occurs later, run into an existing worldhopper, gets recruited and now is world hopping. There are to me too many variables. There are multiple magic systems that can get you off planet, in addition to ways without even needing a magic system to do so. Just because the currently the individuals do not have access to it, does not mean they never will. And I am not even speaking of just Rosharan magic. There could be other magics from other planets that could be used to get off Roshar for all we know. Yep. Whole lot of ifs, which is why I feel like trying to set criteria is limiting. He could go that way and go bad early, or he could become king, Jasnah leave, and then he go bad. Or he could stay good and become a great king. All are possible. Which is another variable we just do not know. As per Brandon worldhopping is built into the Elsecaller power set. The only limiting factor is the spren and a power source. Both of which we know can be handled, it just needs to be figured out. So when talking about future world hoppers, I do not think we can dismiss the possibility. They think it is a shardblade that acts differently (like how shardblades act differently than spren blades). They do not see it as an alien artifact from another planet. They know that they originally believed the voidbringers cast them out of the tranquiline halls. Now they find out that is incorrect. They may reason the nearest planet is their home (which it is). That does not necessarily open the entire cosmere, and that does not naturally extend to Adolin of all people. None of which speaks to Adolin being the one in particular to do it. They do not know of other planets and that they are populated. None of that was revealed during Adolin's trip in shadesmar. If you can recall where, then please reference because I cannot. Azure never revealed she was from another planet. They were focused on survival and getting from point A to point B. I could however see a prime liason between the cognitive and physical realm in the elsecallers through discussion with the spren finding out there is a greater cosmere. Not a highprince with a dead blade. The battlefield is regarding his office as highprince. If he decided to lead from the front, (as some, not all, highprinces do), then that makes sense. But if the people of kholinar do not need to flee to another planet, Adolin's responsibility until old age is his princedom. Jasnah conversely is holding the place for Gavinor. That still does not answer why Adolin in particular would feel the need to explore further planets. I already acknowledged through Taravangian that Adrosteia could learn about the cosmere, but I said the second criteria would prevent it. Possible though the same question pops up in my mind as with Adolin, Why Adrestia (or however you spell her name) in particular? She is near the same age as Taravangian. They grew up together, she is an elderly matron with no powers of her own. Wouldn't she be better off researching locally, and send someone else? Which goes back to my earlier point. As per your criteria, Rysn is disabled. Rysn refuses her babsk about the ship because she feels she cannot travel on Roshar, nonetheless another planet. Could she potentially find a magic, or mechanism to allow her to travel while still lacking the use of her legs? Sure! But until she herself renews that passion in travel, and desires it (which she potentially could, but that goes into my earlier point of we just do not know), she will be going no where. She can be expendable as you want her to be, that still does not mean she can accomplish their goals, or will even want to. They could grab some elderly person that can barely walk with a cane. They are at the end of their life so they are expendable. Person steps through, trips, and dies. Or steps through, gets two steps, and gets winded. Maybe they will get information in how many years it takes for that old person to walk? Or take a criminal on death row. Expendable. But what is to prevent that criminal from finding some kind of magic to let them escape and never hear from them again? Just because someone can be "expendable" does not automatically make them effective and desirable. To who? He does not know whats out there. Most of his stories are embellished. How does he send his stories back? It risks access to his fan base. I acknowledge it is certainly possible, but I personally do not see it.

So the terms tend to vary from person to person, but from at least from Brandon's own mouth Jasnah is meant to be an atheist, Dalinar a theist, and Kaladin an agnostic. Questioner I have to say, I find more gospel conversations after going through The Stormlight Archive with people than any other fictional book I've ever read. Does that intentionally bleed in, or is that just part of who you are? Brandon Sanderson It's a little of both. I don't preach in my books. What I am determines part of what I find heroic. But I'm very fascinated by religion. So I like to have lots of different people in the books who have lots of different viewpoints on religion that talk about it, like we kind of do in real life. So, you know, you have someone like Dalinar, who is kind of very... almost revolutionarily faithful. And you have Kaladin who's just straight-up agnostic, "Don't know, don't care." You have Jasnah, who's an atheist. You have someone more like Navani, who's a classic conservative faithful. I just like having all of these different people interacting. Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018)

Brandon confirmed in a WoB that there were Elsecaller worldhoppers in the past, so it has to be capable for them to learn how.

In Words of Radiance page 71 Jasnah and Shallan discuss exactly this, and Jasnah says exactly how she would view the situation (I have posted this so many times I have the scene practically memorized) "You're so sure he isn't real" Shallan said "The Almighty" "I have no more proof of him than I do of the Thaylen Passions, Nu Ralik of the Purelake, or any other religion" "And the Heralds? You don't think they existed?" "I don't know" Jasnah said "There are many things in this world that I don't understand. For example, there is some slight proof that both the Stormfather and the Almighty are real creatures - simply powerful spren, such as the Nightwatcher" "Then he would be real" "I never claimed he was not" Jasnah said "I merely claimed that I do not accept him as God, nor do I feel any inclination to worship him." Personally I do not understand the need of Jasnah being proven or disproved. Sanderson has said repeatedly that he intends the existence of an all mighty deity to always be a question so people like Dalinar (theist), Jasnah (atheist), and Kaladin (agnostic) can all co-exist, discuss and be equally right.

The one robardin references Yep that is the one. Well Gavinor surrounded by a torturing corrupted spren, and a Unmade Mother I would say unwillingly was a suckling child of Hatred. Kaladin held a blade when he found the child, but used it on the spren instead. That had the child been killed, instead of potentially grow into whatever he could grow into in the back half of the stormlight novels, would have bought them more time. Not saying this is concrete, and not even saying I fully believe it myself. Just I think there is enough hints and links that it has potential.

Going on your criteria (which I do no wholly agree with but for the purpose of this response, lets go with that) The OP stated in future books. Gavinor is heir apparent. When he comes of age he will become king, so Jasnah would not be held back by those duties. We know it is possible for radiants to world hop, they just have to learn how. That would cover the limitation. Jasnah would have plenty of incentive to investigate and finally due to the Elsecaller's propensity for the cognitive realm, she would interact with individuals from other worlds so would know of their existence. So I believe in future books (much later in the stormlight series, or another series entirely) Jasnah could be a world hopper. It is literally built into her power set. By your criteria he does not know there are other worlds. Azure hedged about such information when they traveled together. I see no incentive for Adolin to investigate them. He is the highprince and ruler of the Kholin princedom. That would seemingly no change till he gets an heir of his own, and said heir grows up to take it over after Adolin either dies or retires, which would mean he would be either dead and unable to travel, or too old to travel. She does not know from what we have seen of the larger cosmere. She could theoretically learn in her interactions with Taravangian and Odium but that leads to the second criteria. Incentive to investigate them. Her entire arc is allying with Taravangian to help humanity survive Odium. If her outlook is verified, then she would spend her entire life keeping humanity safe while Odium reigns. If it is not, then she is potentially killed or loses with Odium. If that happened, perhaps she flees Roshar so that could be incentive to explore. As to duties and limitations, she has no powers to assist her, so she would be entirely dependent on perpendicularities, and it would also require her to no longer serve the diagram in preserving humanity on Roshar. She does not know about other worlds. She does have an incentive in so far as she likes to explore, though her limitation of being wheelchair bound prevents her due to her believing it prevents her. She does not believe she can travel even locally due to her disability, so unless she gets past that (which I hope she will), I doubt she will go outside of Roshar. Marasi I agree. MeLaan I agree With the limited information we have on her, sure. Lol him not so sure. He would be inaccessible from his adoring fans, and income.

Just to go against the grain, there are two things I find ironic about Gavinor. Keeping in mind when we found him he was being tormented by a corrupted spren, and around an Unmade infused Mother for who knows how long: 1. Gavinor could very well be what the death rattle spoke of (I know there are those that disagree with it and their reasons, but it is still a possibility) 2.People complained about having to read a 13 year Lift (I personally enjoy Lift) due to her immaturity and lack of seriousness. Yet people are excited and want to read about a 4 - 8 year old child. Personally I do not think Oroden nor Gavinor will be a thing in the narrative till the back five of stormlight when they reach 15 to 20 years of age.

I would liken it to They feed on investiture, any investiture. The byproduct on the other hand is unique

-more information on how transformation works -more information on how transportation works -more information on how division works -images of what all the radiant spren look like in the physical and cognitive realms (I know we will get to see drawings of the spren, but I am greedy and want images of them in both realms) -Urithiru awaken -Fabrial tech with Navani spearheading it -more information on the fused and their powers -more information on the unmade and their powers

I confess I did not re-read skyward before I read starsight, so I could totally have missed it, but I did a quick search of the book, and the only mention I see is M-bot off hand mentioning he has camouflage holographics, and that was probably why he has not been discovered all this time, though it ran on backup power which ran out just when Spensa discovered him. I have to check but I do not believe it was actively used in the first book. Now of course by the end of the book they can now work and fully power Mbot without hiding, but I am pretty sure holographic changes to Spensa was not mentioned in book 1, and became a "oh by the way I can do this" which shortly flowed to "oh gosh that is just what we needed!" in book 2.

We never actually hear it from Renarin's mouth. The first is Dalinar when he is in Thaylenah. He realizes he should have brought Renarin to help with the wounded to begin with and explains that there may be some Renarin cannot heal because the soul gets used to the wound, like what Dalinar did (his words, I quoted it earlier in this thread). Then much later, Rysn's babsk shows up. He asks her why not get healed by the radiant and she says bitterly back its because its been too long. Here is the quote: "Have you tried that Radiant who-" "Yes. He can't heal my legs. It's been too long since my accident, which is appropriate. This is my consequence - payment for a contract I entered into willingly the moment I climbed down the side of that greatshell" She does not even specify that it was Renarin that said it. So we have two "testimonies" if you will. One is Dalinar. I believe what he says because he is referring to healing Renarin has already done at Urithiru, and to me sounds knowledgeable. The other is Rysn. I believe her response is colored by her own understanding and ignorance. She feels this is what she deserves. You conversely feel Dalinar is going on old information and is assuming something based on his own experiences that does not include healing, so is unreliable. You believe Rysn because you believe there was healing done on those people in Thaylenah, causing Renarin to realize the numerical time limit, and thereby told Rysn her time limit ran out and she cannot be healed. Again, it would depend (in my opinion) on how the character acted about their disability. If Rysn still carried on the same way, then yes I would agree her healing with stormlight would be evidence. But I think even squiredom requires a level of self examination and growth (see Hobbler) that if Rysn showed, would be the reason for the healing, and would not validate the time limit. But given such growth would be subjective (see our disagreement on her view on her disability for example), it would be difficult to conclusively say between us. Which is why I presented two such extreme circumstances. I do not feel I am saying it can be so easily changed. Otherwise anyone would do it. But I do think it is possible. Now whether I think Brandon will ever have Rysn healed (either via progression or stormlight) I do not know. People have made great arguments for her remaining disabled, and great arguments for her healing. So that for me is a RAFO.

Lol (laughing because of how this all got so confusing, not laughing at what you wrote). That is why I said I did not see aon healing as pertinent to the time limit discussion. None of the instances it was used in the book, or mentioned in the WoB is the kind of information that would give us an indication whether it has a time limit or not. So it would not be applicable in discussing whether there is a time limit or not. Glad we confirmed I understand your theory/perspective. One thing to add to this (and I completely acknowledge this is subjective) is that I do not think Renarin thinks there is a time limit. Like I said I am still going on what Dalinar said before. That when the soul adjusts to the wound over time, it will not be healed. That is what I think the premise Renarin is operating on. You disagree for the reason you put below, which I will reply to further down. Not writing this to further argue the point. Just that I understand and acknowledge your view, and I still have my own. Totally respect and get your view regarding soulcasting. Personally as I mentioned earlier I do not see anything healing regarding soulcasting. It was no different to me than taking 100 year old merlot with dirt in it, and soulcasting it to merlot without dirt in it. The merlot is no longer 100 years old, because you transformed it into new merlot without dirt. Which is another point we disagree on which is why we agree to disagree. I see what is holding Rysn back is her being ashamed of being a cripple. That that is the reason she cannot travel. She sees herself as useless due to her disability. If what I said is true, then that would be enough in my mind to prevent healing. I acknowledge you view her quandary differently I understand, but I view about Rysn and Renarin, as a doctor coming in and saying he cannot provide a blood transfusion to someone because the blood type they have would be harmful to the person. The layperson then turns around to a family member and says they cannot transfuse because the blood is bad for them. I give less credence to what Rysn said, over what Dalinar said. You think something happened in the background in that time frame, and thereby give Rysn more credence than Dalinar. And that is ok. We just disagree. That's all. (the example I gave was not to be dismissive of your view. Just finding an analogy to convey. That was my intention with the rain, and I am sorry if I offended you with it) Thing is unfortunately I do not think even option 3 would resolve things. Lets say Rysn, bonds a spren and heals with stormlight. Depending on how she bonded, I could point to the bonding as showing she grew as a person and moved past her disability, which is why she was able to heal with stormlight. Which from my perspective would not prove the time limit, while from your perspective it would. Unfortunately I really do feel the only way to bury this hatchet is if Renarin said "Storms! You were wounded 21 minutes ago! I cannot heal you now!" or Rysn rolls up to Renarin "Hey kid, I am feeling extra good about myself today. Heal me!" Renarin heals, Rysn jumps up and does a jig. (wrote it that way for humor, not mocking) Same here.

I have included the image search link below for what a railgun would look like. So I am not talking hand held. https://www.google.com/search?q=rail+gun&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS820US820&sxsrf=ACYBGNTCSucmfp-V2WPjyLaySdY46F6RGg:1576612718851&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi1sbiIvL3mAhVKc98KHV3fBc0Q_AUoAnoECBIQBA&biw=1440&bih=797

So I think where the confusion came in is this. Quantus (I use the older name before the ooklaness for sanity sake) and I discussed on another thread a little while back about the difference between personal healing and external healing. Quantus argued that because Rysn could not be healed by Renarin and that she said it was because it had been too long, that there was a defined time limit on external healing (if I am misrepresenting your argument quantus, I apologize in advance). This time limit (if i am relating this correctly) is separate and unique from stormlight healing. External healing alone has a defined time limit. So if you are injured, and 2 hours passed (for illustration), you cannot be healed via progression period. Regardless how you look at yourself. If you then became a radiant and inhaled stormlight, then you could heal the wound that progression could not. That is the point Quantus made earlier in the thread. I responded to that point. I think things then got convoluted from there. I do not think there is a hard time limit. I think the longer you live with a wound, the more likely you will identify it with yourself, so it will not be healed, but I do not think there is a ticking clock going by in the background. I think if Rysn has a moment where she no longer saw herself as handicapped, and asked Renarin to try healing her again, she could be successfully healed like how Lopen healed his arm with stormlight. Hopefully that clarified things.

Aons function the way they function because the power of the shards are shoved in the cognitive realm, where they normally do not exist. Normally the power of a shard resides in the spiritual realm. Aons, like the rest of the magic systems on Sel are location dependant. Every form of power on Sel requires some shape that mimics the land they are from. From aons, to martial arts, to dakhor, to forgery, to blood sealing, to potions. All require a base symbol because of the cognitive limitation. As Honor’s power, though the vessel is dead, resides in the spiritual realm, that is the first reason why I do not believe the way Aon’s work is applicable in the specific cirmstance we are discussing. Raoden himself says the reason for the result is because the aon did not have the correct modifiers to complete the task. Jasnah was using soulcasting to soulcast new blood. Nothing to me about soulcasting has to deal with healing. It is matter transmutation. She soulcasted the existing blood into different blood of the same type. The new blood did not have the same impurities (poison) the original blood did). Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the point you were making was that external healing has a hard time limit, while every other personal healing does not. I will take examples we have had in the book to illustrate this better Lopen is missing an arm. His arm is healed when he is able to draw in stormlight. Brandon has said the reason Lopen was able to heal his arm was due to him never accepting himself as handicap. So you are saying had Renarin gone over to Lopen to heal him with regrowth, Lopen would still have a stump, even though he never accepted himself as having a handicap because this hard time limit has already long ago passed Kaladin with his slave brands. When Kaladin heals with stormlight, his brands remain. Brandon has said the reason Kaladin is unable to heal his brands is because he sees the brands as part of who he is. The tattooing done over the brand heals immediately. You are saying had Kaladin not become a radiant to heal with stormlight, and went to Renarin for healing of the brands, because of a hard time limit, the brands would remain. Also had Kaladin waited a certain amount of time after getting the tattoo on his forehead and gone to Renarin, then the tattoo would be unable to be healed because of the hard limit time frame. Rysn as a paraplegic. Dalinar said that he believes the soul adjusts to the wound. I think this is line with the earlier explanations of cosmere healing. You are going on Rysn’s statement that it has been too long since her injury. So you are saying that had Rysn been brought to Renarin shortly after falling, she would be restored, but because the hard time limit passed, she is unable to be healed. That the only way for her to now walk is for her to become a radiant, and inhale stormlight. Now as an aside, I have a follow up question. If Rysn still views herself as a paraplegic, but becomes a radiant, and inhales stormlight, are you saying she will be healed, or not? Will she remain a paraplegic, or not? Back to the main portion, my point is there is no hard time limit. The longer you have a wound, the greater the chance you will think of it as part of yourself, so the more likely the wound will be unable to be healed. However, if you do not accept the wound as part of yourself (Lopen), you will be healed. I take Dalinar’s statement over Rysn’s statement. You disagree. I respect that and to each their own. I will continue to respond to StanLemon because I feel he or she has misunderstood what I was trying to say, then I will leave it because it is clear to me that unless we literally see either: 1. Renarin testing his healing with multiple people till he can confidently say “if you are wounded for two days, I cannot heal you” 2. Rysn regain confidence in herself, and not see herself as a cripple, and Renarin then heals her. As both are extremely specific circumstances, I do not think we will either see it on screen anytime soon, or at all. Which is why I said before to each their own. Agree to disagree. That was my point. I thought what we were discussing is whether or not external healing had a hard time limit. The information we have regarding aons does not (to me) provide any insight on whether or not external healing has a hard time limit. That is why I stated I felt it was not pertinent. To me there is no contradiction. Raoden said the modifier was missing, so there was not enough power to complete the healing. The annotations say the same thing. So I do not see a contradiction between book and WoB. That seems (to me) to be a function of dominion and devotions powers being in the cognitive realm, and not the spiritual which is the normal state for the shards power. Sel can have a unique mechanic because we have (to me) a very clear and definable difference between Sel magics, and the rest of the cosmere. The power of the shard is in the cognitive realm. Regardless as I said earlier, any of the information we have on Aons do not provide commentary on the time limit, which is what I could have sworn was what we were discussing. I feel you are misrepresenting what I am trying to say. If I read you correctly, you are saying that I say the entirety of cosmere healing is focused on self perception and self perception only. That is not what I feel I am saying at all. I am saying that I believe the time limit was a misnomer. We all thought there was a time limit on stormlight healing as well, till Lopen healed his arm. That was shown not to be so much time, as accepting the wound as part of you. So I do not think there is a hard time limit, that if you wait one second too long on the limit, you cannot heal. You disagree. At this point I do not feel there is anything information wise we have at hand that can conclusively say one way or the other, so I agree to disagree.

Regarding radiants gaining increased efficiency as they progress through the oaths. Recent WoB: Questioner I'm sensing a subtle metaphor between all of the Radiants, where it seems like their lives have caused them to be pressurized gems and now they get the cut from their Oaths. Brandon Sanderson Nice job. Yeah. Questioner They're holding Stormlight better when they do that, right? Brandon Sanderson They are indeed. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

There is a recent WoB:

Not commenting to get into a huge discussion, just offering a counter point on why a gravity gun fabrial might appeal. Using a railgun as an analogue, you would potentially get greater range, and impact from such a gun versus conventional fire arms. The projectile could be smaller but still deal comparable damage. The absence of explosive propellants or warheads to store and handle as well as the low cost of projectiles compared to conventional weaponry would be additional advantages. Add to your gun potentially being rechargeable and not requiring gunpowder to fire could be a boon to Roshar.

It could be reasoned that the astral projection ability that transformation affords into the cognitive realm would count as that. That you create an investiture bubble of "you" in the cognitive realm. Able to communicate, and vulnerable, but not fully transfered into the cognitive realm. That the reason elsecallers are the primary, is due to being able to both fully transfer (like willshapers) but also "astrally project" like the lightweavers. Now I stress the phrase "it could be reasoned". I am not saying that is the only way to see it. Like I said earlier, I still have to dig regarding the third WoB.

Are you referring to the quote talking about the elsecallers benevolence as the primary liaisons between the physical and cognitive realms?

Don't quote me on this, and give me time to dig, but I could have sworn there was a later subsequent WoB where he elaborated stating they could not (there is one saying they cannot, one saying they can, and then a third more recent one. The more recent one is the one I am referring to). I believe the confusion came in because of what occurred with the oathgate during oathbringer. But again, this is going on memory, and the subsequent WoB may very well not be enough for you.

If you are saying so because of it standing up, I have read/watched about microsoft stating you can place it on its side. So theoretically you could still fit it in an existing entertainment deck. Unless you mean you need an additional spot for it because you ran out due to prior generations.