Fifth of Daybreak

Storms you guys are fast. I'll have to catch up later. For now I have two reactions. "Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a person who is in the process of changing." Amazing. Pattern hummed. “Stupidity. Very interesting.” I love Pattern

I wanted to start a new discussion thread for Shallan's transformation magic. This has been refined by some very fine arguments against by @Alderant in another thread, so I'm going to try to summarize my evidence and logic here, along with my new theory and relevant WoB for discussion in its own thread. Theory: Shallan is able to do some sort of combination of soulcasting and lightweaving to change people's perceptions of themselves, allowing a magical transformation which can alter who they are. (Update, appears to just be lightweaving, see reference to Renarin in Chapter 10 on page 2 of thread) We have a WoB on the subject I wasn't aware of before There's a whole bunch of supporting text about Shallan placing soulcastings on herself to fully adopt Radiant, and on the deserters. To see those passages, check this link. But, as Shallan struggles with accepting the pain of killing her parents, she's started using her powers to perceive herself as different people, as Veil, and as Radiant, not just as an act, but as a full person. Shallan thinks she might have killed her brothers, and so Pattern mentions that something is wrong with the lies Shallan places on herself. In response, Shallan mentions she has to go deeper, and that's when she starts to behave strangely in the more recent chapters, which seems to be clearing up after her encounter in 30. I do want to point out a few passages from 29 though that support my point about her separating the personalities more completely. So to summarize my comments inside the quotes, she is comparing her own personality in character with other personalities and has to transition through Shallan to get to Radiant. Since it affects her internal narration, we obviously can infer that this is coming from her internal perceptions of herself, and her contact and influence over bluth began, as @Alderant points out, wiht Jasnah teaching Shallan the importance of self-perception and image and the power it conveys. That's because it's fundamentally important to this type of magic if I'm correct about where we have seen if before and who we have seen use it. Warbreaker Spoilers: I think that Shallan's combination of Lightweaving and Soulcasting is triggered by both her artistic abilities in her drawing and her leadership qualities taught by Jasnah, and this triggers a magical effect similar to that we've seen before in the spoiler tag. Alright, rip me to pieces!

Not very likely. His stormwarden identifies the bearer as a minor Lord from Jah Keved and Kal notices the red hair. Shallan recognizes the blade. All of this points to it being the same set of shards.

Alas, that's covered in the employee handbook right next to the Facebook section.

While you can have an upvote, this thing took a storming long time to grow out this long, and I'm willing to get rid of the beard.

I'm considering cosplaying Rock but I'm not committed enough to shave off my moustache.

Just wanted to share a moment I just had going through Way of Kings. Brandon always impresses me with these one-liners that pack serious punches later on in the story, and as a fledgling writer, it's really humbling to see just how well planned all of this is. Which we now know isn't something he was taught, but he learned. It just makes me happy so I wanted to share. Sanderson books get better with age and the more you read them. I can't wait to get my fix in tomorrow morning.

I just had traumatic flashbacks to the end of "Shadows in Flight" by Orson Scott Card.

In the context of "I can't tell what's reality and what isn't" I strongly disagree.

This isn't the order. It's give chase, adopt Radiant, feel stormlight chasing her, she charges into the room and stops, the illusions split off, illusions which are not copies of herself dissipate as they pass her, she readies her sword, she notices the room is empty.

Oathbringer is landing soon! Does anyone want to get in on some last minute survey madness?

I thought bringing in the text would help here. Spoiler tag for length. I don't think it breaks it up that much at all. Honestly this was one of the only breaks in the entire fight, and the first time I read through it I was out of breath. I needed this break in the action it provided. Kaladin even describes the process as feeling like it takes forever, so for what my two cents are worth I disagree. He also was carrying more stormlight than he was normally accustomed to:

Can you post it here? Seems like the most relevant thing anyone's said on the thread and it would be nice to have on hand.

I have to agree that it seems unlikely that the surgebinding is coming from anyone other than Shallan. There's a lot of great back and forth about my theory on why it happened that way in that scene in my thread "Stones, Stone Shamanism, and Death Rites" but basically I think that by trying to change herself fully into Radiant, Shallan is breaking her mind somehow and causing problems with her Lightweaving. @Erunion If she used those illusions tactically it was a poor use of tactics. None of them looked like her, only the soldier was armed and would be a credible threat, and Radiant was the only one with a shardblade so still would be the largest threat and would draw the most fire. Beyond that, the illusions vanish before she even readies her sword, let alone realizes the room is empty.

I've believed it's Ivis for years. I'll lay out my evidence below. 1: Ivis breaks Rosharan tradition and teaches fighting. While ardents are allowed to break tradition, social customs sometimes hold stronger than any written law, so for Vivenna to be the female ardent that trains people in the sword makes sense sense when won't have ingrained cultural restrictions. 2: Ivis works closely with Zahel. We see it in 44 when she's first introduced. She even knows where Zahel is when he's relaxing without being asked. 3: Ardents are bald. It's the easiest way to hide away traitorous royal locks. 4: I tested the theory by asking Brandon what color her hair would be if she didn't cut it (scared of the almighty RAFO). He answered black, which is what Vivenna's neutral color is when she's in control of her emotional state. There's been some discussion on this topic before. I think there's more than just this, but here's a link to one of the threads.

When though? Jasnah confronts Shallan a half hour after she wakes up. She couldn't have been asleep for more than a day. Jasnah had to have a good idea of what was going on to request that old jars of jam be found and tested for backbreaker powder antidote in that timeframe.

Likeliest by what basis? Jasnah doesn't dislike sweets, she hates jam. Kabsal has consistently offered her bread on every visit, described as "always" by Shallan "without jam, because Jasnah hates it." Kabsal is obviously infatuated with Shallan, Jasnah has observed this. She wouldn't expect Kabsal to try to kill Shallan, only her. Kabsal consistently offers throughout the book according to Shallan. This is suspicious itself if Jasnah is suspicious of Kabsal. If you view the action as unreasonable, that's all the more reason for Jasnah to pick up on the unreasonable "peace offering" to an Alethi princess from property. She also tests other jars for antidote after the fact showing she's considered the possibility and solved the case. She latches onto Shallan's Poisoning with extreme alacrity. All the evidence fits.

Kabsal does so, grabbing the jam and eating the bread. Shallan is offended. The potential assassin now has the upper hand. Jasnah does not view this as a gamble. The poison has never worked this quickly before. She has no reason to think he would change his habits now. Shallan is in a hospital with a soulcaster. It's the least possible risk with the highest possible reward. If she's wrong, there's literally no physical harm to anyone.

So your argument still leaves her without a valid reason to both soulcast the jam and allow Shallan to eat the bread without having conflicting motivations.

Along with the other evidence presented. If we base the assumption that she soulcast the jam to get rid of poison, then we have no Logical reason for that action. It serves no purpose to Jasnah personally, and she does nothing else to prevent Shallan from being poisoned by bread. She also has no reason to be suspicious of jam, something Kabsal has noticed, as he always only offers her bread without jam. She doesn't eat the jam.

I think there was one thing that caught her off guard. Jasnah knows this isn't what happened. She knows that the jam was soulcast. She knows the antidote was gone. I think this is a confession. Jasnah feels guilt over how close Shallan came to dying. She had no reason to soulcast the jam, none, a point no one has addressed. Jasnah had no need to spare Shallan for her crime, no need to give her information, no need to confront her personally. She does so out of personal guilt and the need to confess, in what way she can. She came back for the same reason she did the first time, she cares about Shallan and wants to atone, but: Shallan's confession gave her the perfect cover. I understand the want to view Jasnah through the best lens, but I'm just not seeing any evidence otherwise. and after all;

I don't disagree with any of this. I don't feel like I'm attacking her here. If anything, this revelation I presented has made me more in awe of her character. It seems like it all boils down to whether you answer yes or no to one question: Would Jasnah be willing to risk Shallan's life in this way, knowing her own abilities and the skills of the surgeons around her could help, in order to kill a possible assassin? To me it's an easy yes and it doesn't diminish, change, or alter my respect for Jasnah in any way. The only thing that's different is I have a much healthier respect for her ability to outmaneuver and read someone like Kabsal.

Then her actions are inconsistent with any course of action that would lead to either preventing Shallan from being poisoned or the soulcast Jam having any personal effect on her. If one of her goals was to prevent Shallan's poisoning, she obviously suspected the bread and did nothing to stop it. This point hasa not been addressed. I think you're underestimating the brilliance of both the plan and the depth in which she has read Kabsal, not to mention the need for proof to verify her suspicions. She suspects Kabsal, at the very least of wanting to steal her soulcaster, she has intimated that much to Shallan. She has no proof of that, just a healthy paranoia. She observes the regularity of which he brings bread. She notes that he takes stock of her dislike of jam and always offers her bread without jam. She begins to form a plan. Kabsal could be putting poison in the bread, a food Jasnah will eat, and antidote in the jam a food Jasnah dislikes, but Shallan likes, a woman he is obviously infatuated with, and he as an ardent male is allowed to eat, so they can consume it in her presence without suspicion. If she is correct, she can get rid of the antidote and purify Shallan's blood if there's poison. All she'll have done is removed Kabsal's ability to save himself. If she's wrong, she won't have killed an innocent person as she won't have gotten rid of an antidote for a poison that doesn't exist. This I think is perfectly in character. Evidence-based judgement assessment with an easy way to test the hypothesis that will prove harmless if she's incorrect without ever having to admit fault on her part. To other replies on this thread about me being overly harsh on her, I just want to refer to a few pieces of text, as well as the fact that she brought her underage ward to witness premeditated murder as a lesson on philosophy. The signs are hanging on the wall. She also tries to cover up her soulcasting of the jam. She is knowledgeable of strawberries, saying she's heard about the scent, but then doesn't express alarm that it smells like vinegar. She makes sure she's the first person to get the jar so that no one has a frame of reference before the scent is changed. Then here at this quote, again from Strawberry, bolding mine: Is Jasnah eyeing Shallan because she recalls Kabsal 's guess as Shallan supposes, or is it because she understands why Kabsal is so insistent on the jam and is searching for the first symptoms of poison?

You're right! Good catch, I had completely forgotten about this. This theory is teetering on the edge of collapse.

Shallan's reasoning is very sound. I cannot tell you how many times I've listened to the book before I put these thoughts together. Being based on sound reasoning doesn't always mean correct. I agree, which is why I came to make this theory. Jasnah flat out refuses the bread the first time. It makes more sense if you look at the situation that Jasnah was not attempting to soulcast away a poison but soulcast away an antidote. So then if you suspect that he's got poison, and you want him imprisoned, you can have the king whose niece you saved hold him prisoner while you test the food for poison instead of destroying the evidence in a poor attempt to save someone. It seems like the main argument against is that Jasnah was acting as Shallan argues and soulcast the jam fearing poison to save Shallan's life. Her chain of logic would then look something like this: I suspect Kabsal is trying to poison me. I dislike jam, and have told Shallan this, but Shallan likes jam and Kabsal is observably infatuated with Shallan. There might be poison in the jam, I will protect Shallan by finding an excuse to grab the jam with a distinct flavor and taste and soulcast it to something else without poison even though this is a food I will publicly not eat. I will publicly accept the food Kabsal knows I will eat and will secretly change it while eating it, enduring great discomfort to hide the change in case the bread is poisoned as well, but will not act to prevent Shallan from being poisoned by the bread. It does not add up. To couch my harsh assessment, I can also see Jasnah having the upper hand in the argument that would follow.