Shardcast: Queerness in the Cosmere


Happy Pride Month everyone! This episode of Shardcast, we get very gay. We're talking about Queerness in the Cosmere, so we're talking about queer representation, examples, how Brandon has evolved over time and is putting in more representation. We also have some critiques and hopes for the future. So if you want to see the cosmere from a queer lens, this episode is for you!

This week Jess (LadyLameness) has killed Eric and is hosting the podcast instead, and we have our token straight person, Alyx (Feather), as well as Matt (Comatose), Shannon (Grey), Ala (Rasarr), and Kadie (AonEne)! 

Here are a bunch of links for terminology:
https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms
https://pflag.org/glossary
https://transstudent.org/gender/

Thumbnail image of Renarin and Rlain by the amazing rspixart: https://rspixart.tumblr.com/
Here's a link to Jemma Young, who made those Zelda pins: https://www.jemmayoung.com/

YouTube chapters:
00:00 Introductions and Show & Tell
7:49 Terminology Disclaimer
10:07 Consuming Media as a Queer Person and Lenses
22:59 Shallan's Bisexuality
27:57 Why does Brandon have so many queer fans?
38:44 Representation and Some Examples
49:28 Jasnah
1:12:30 Kaladin/Adolin
1:18:54 Shallan/Jasnah
1:22:51 Kaladin/Moash
1:23:22 Navani/Raboniel
1:25:56 Platonic Friendships
1:31:04 Ranette, Queerness in the Background
1:39:07 Trans Representation
1:42:36 The Sibling and Nonbinary Characters
1:53:08 Singer Gender
1:55:58 Renarin and Rlain
2:00:03 Future Hopes
2:07:03 Who's That Cosmere Character

If you like our content, support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/17thshard

For discussion, theories, games, and news, come to https://www.17thshard.com
Come talk with us and the community on the 17th Shard Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/bMAUS5c
Want to learn more about the cosmere and more? The Coppermind Wiki is where it's at: https://coppermind.net
Read all Words of Brandon on Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net
Subscribe to Shardcast: http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:102123174/sounds.rss
Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected]

 

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Everytime any of you did a gay reading of any characters or situations, the rest of y'all's smirks slowly rose up, up, up, up

Anyway, that was a great Shardcast and happy Pride Month to all of you as well!

Also, hey there Ene!

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Kahlani-nimi

Posted (edited)

I loved this episode so storming much!!! One thing I really hope for in the future is a Shallan POV with her internal monologue realisation that those “gosh Jasnah/other women are beautiful” moments are more than just admiring those women, and actually attraction and acknowledging that queerness within herself. Because like so many of you brought up, for a lot of bisexual people, it is often in your twenties that you start to realise, oh, this isn’t actually straight... This isn’t actually what all these straight people around me are feeling... And I think it would make total sense for Shallan, having had such a sheltered and conservative upbringing, that she wouldn’t have come to this realisation until now. I think this would be a great portrayal of a bisexual woman’s experience in such a heteronormative society, and something I think could play out very naturally in the next book. Now that she has absorbed her Veil personality, perhaps she can come to this realisation that Veil clearly already had. AND since we’re surely going to need a Shallan and Jasnah scene in the next book where Shallan FINALLY talks to Jasnah about what she’s been up to with the Ghostbloods, there could be a great opportunity there for her internal thoughts to recognise her attraction to Jasnah as what it has always been!

Edit: gosh I never realised until now how incredibly wonderful Kadolin is!!! THANK YOU! Like omg the most perfect enemies to lovers arc, the cute nicknames, the mutual admiration, all that beautiful, glorious gayness. I’m already seeing scenes like the arena fight so differently. Kaladin coming to Adolin’s rescue, Adolin sending himself to prison alongside Kaladin, Adolin’s awareness and total support for Kaladin in RoW. If that’s not true love then what in damnation is!?

 

Edited by Kahlani
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Malim

Posted

Excellent Shardcast as always.  What I love about Sanderson is that while he does include non Heteronormative characters, he doesn't hit you over the head with them.  Everyone seems natural, to the point that an older reader like myself sometimes misses them and has to have them pointed out by my daughter (who is openly Bi and proud of it.)

To me that is perfect.  It drives home the point that while these characters are non-traditional, they are regular people.  To me that is the goal of inclusion:  Yes, this is not "traditional," but so what?  It's just as natural as the fact that some people have red hair, and some have brown.  I can only hope that this style of inclusion keeps becoming more commonplace.

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Great episode!

Had a laugh at 2:13:53:

"This character had a bad accident with their staff."

Every non-Australian on the show: :huh: Stuff? Staff?

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STAG

Posted (edited)

On 6/20/2021 at 0:24 AM, Kahlani said:

I loved this episode so storming much!!! One thing I really hope for in the future is a Shallan POV with her internal monologue realisation that those “gosh Jasnah/other women are beautiful” moments are more than just admiring those women, and actually attraction and acknowledging that queerness within herself. Because like so many of you brought up, for a lot of bisexual people, it is often in your twenties that you start to realise, oh, this isn’t actually straight... This isn’t actually what all these straight people around me are feeling... And I think it would make total sense for Shallan, having had such a sheltered and conservative upbringing, that she wouldn’t have come to this realisation until now. I think this would be a great portrayal of a bisexual woman’s experience in such a heteronormative society, and something I think could play out very naturally in the next book. Now that she has absorbed her Veil personality, perhaps she can come to this realisation that Veil clearly already had. AND since we’re surely going to need a Shallan and Jasnah scene in the next book where Shallan FINALLY talks to Jasnah about what she’s been up to with the Ghostbloods, there could be a great opportunity there for her internal thoughts to recognise her attraction to Jasnah as what it has always been!

Edit: gosh I never realised until now how incredibly wonderful Kadolin is!!! THANK YOU! Like omg the most perfect enemies to lovers arc, the cute nicknames, the mutual admiration, all that beautiful, glorious gayness. I’m already seeing scenes like the arena fight so differently. Kaladin coming to Adolin’s rescue, Adolin sending himself to prison alongside Kaladin, Adolin’s awareness and total support for Kaladin in RoW. If that’s not true love then what in damnation is!?

 

Wait, are we forgetting some of these people are storming married? But I totally think Brandon does a GREAT job including this stuff. They’re sexuality isn’t the end of the world to these characters when the literal end of the world is coming. Something Riordan could have learned…

Edited by STAG
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On 6/20/2021 at 1:06 AM, Honorless said:

Everytime any of you did a gay reading of any characters or situations, the rest of y'all's smirks slowly rose up, up, up, up

Anyway, that was a great Shardcast and happy Pride Month to all of you as well!

Also, hey there Ene!

Hey Hon! Happy pride!!

3 hours ago, STAG said:

Wait, are we forgetting some of these people are storming married? But I totally think Brandon does a GREAT job including this stuff. They’re sexuality isn’t the end of the world to these characters when the literal end of the world is coming. Something Riordan could have learned…

Canon doesn't always impact shipping - there are plenty of circumstances where a married character could end up with a different character :lol:

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Child of Hodor

Posted

Thank you for this Shardcast. I was ignorant of a lot of the interpretations of the subtext highlighted in this episode, I appreciated it.  

I had no real reaction to Jasnah being Ace. Other than "as long as Brandon thinks it fits the character" and "Wait, Wit? Really?!". Their relationship didn't ring true to me. I get her being interested in him in general because he's an ancient entity who has been to many planets and knows a ton of stuff, but as a romantic relationship the idea of anyone romancing Wit felt off even before I got to their chapter.

I always viewed Jasnah's great discomfort with marriage as stemming from *gestures at her parents' marriage*. Jasnah respected her parents, but she had to know they were miserable together. Her mother could have pursued her scholarship more fully earlier in her life if she hadn't become queen through marriage and been burdened with helping run a country that's constantly at war. Jasnah doesn't want to end up like her mother, she wants to pursue her career and she can't do that if she is stuck ruling her spouse's kingdom.  

As was said on the podcast my read on those scenes is not meant to be mutually exclusive to anyone else's. 

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Kalak_

Posted

As a bisexual cosmere fan I have found my storming people!!!!!! storming hell the internalised gayness that none of them recognise  in sooo many characters is both hilarious and relatable at the same time

happy pride month my storming friends 

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I did have one thing that I listening to this episode made me realize (and my GF is reading Warbreaker) but I feel like Lightsong may be Ace. Other than someone he had a deep connection with (Calmseer) he has no interest in sex. And maybe I’m interpreting how different variants of ace present but it seems fitting to me

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