Shardcast: Language and Connection


You know what you need in life? Spiritual Mumbo Jumbo, and it's time we delivered. This time we focus on a very specific aspect: Language, and how it pertains to the Connection magics that let people in the cosmere speak different languages. Think there isn't enough to talk about here? Hah, you've never seen this show.

We have Eric (Chaos), Ian (WeiryWriter), Evgeni (Argent), Alyx (FeatherWriter), and Shannon (Grey)! Thanks to Alyx for editing this one.

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However it works initially, a way to make it work in a way as a shortcut to learning the language for real is using a recording device and reviewing the information. Put on the medallion and record yourself in a conversation. Take the medallion off and watch recording. Repeat as necessary. 

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I left this on the youtube comments for this episode but I'll post it here too cause I'm trying to start being active on the website too:

I am bilingual, native Portuguese and fluent in English.

I think we really haven't seen enough of connection to settle this argument, my personal theory is that different levels and types of connection magic work differently. I think alll of them work the same way in that they feel natural for the person speaking and they phisically speak and hear in the other language, but that is translated in their mind either to their native tongue or to some sort of general "spiritual understanding", your brain just processes the information and it's only turned into actual words in a specific language when you try to recall it or "actively" think about it. But they would be different in that the medallions are closer to the google translate style while Dalinar's and Hoid's are closer to perfect native level translation (and would include the whole song/poem spiritual mumbo jumbo, while the medallions wouldn't).

When Allik uses the medallion in BoM, he doesn't speak the same way a native northener would, his lines (from what I remember) are a bit unnatural, kind of like how a person who knows enough in a lnaguage to hold a conversation, but isn't totally fluent, would speak (see Rock and Lopen). We can't be sure if Dalinar's is any better though, since we only see those scenes from his perspective, and not one of a native Azish speaker, to Dalinar he's speaking normally in the same way Allik must feel like he's speaking normally. Meanwhile, with a better form of connection magic, like what Hoid probably has, a native speaker wouldn't be able to tell the difference between your speech and anyone else's.

In general though, I do agree more with what Eric and Shannon said though, based on what we've seen, most of what I said speculation (and I might be misremembering things too).

Regarding Kenton's eyes changing colors, "When overmastering, a sand master's mouth will go dry and their eyes will burn." Not sure exactly what burns means here, but maybe that's it? It could also be the art, but from flipping through volumes 1 and 2 I didn't notice any eye color change, the best I could find is when the entire sand master gets a glow around them when using the magic and that goes over the eyes as well, but it's definitely not consistent.

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Wax

Posted

Quote
Ayyayaya coco jambo ayyayai
Ayyayaya coco jambo ayyayai, ayye yo
Ayyayaya coco jambo ayyayai
Ayyayaya coco jambo ayyayai, ayye yo

 

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I grew up with English as my native language but learned Spanish from the age of six in a Spanish immersion school. I quit before high school, but recently began learning it again now, and let me tell you, it's odd.

I personally think that Connection would somehow allow you to learn a language easier. Some things about Spanish I just kind of instinctively know, even if I've forgotten most of the vocabulary and things like that. Your brain doesn't consciously know it, but then someone asks you a question in Spanish and you suddenly start speaking it. Maybe if someone used Connection to a language for an extended period of time, it might happen like that, where you don't think you know the language but your brain somehow remembers speaking it.

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On 23/06/2019 at 5:08 PM, Wax said:

 

Spiritual mumbo jumbo, spiritual

Spiritual mumbo jumbo, spiritual , ayye yo

Spiritual mumbo jumbo, spiritual

Spiritual mumbo jumbo, spiritual , ayye yo

 

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Wax

Posted

1 hour ago, go_go_gragdet said:

Spiritual mumbo jumbo, spiritual

Spiritual mumbo jumbo, spiritual , ayye yo

Spiritual mumbo jumbo, spiritual

Spiritual mumbo jumbo, spiritual , ayye yo

 

Was referencing this...

 

 

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22 hours ago, Wax said:

Was referencing this...

 

 

I knew, I knew! That's the tune I was singing to. :)

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Singer

Posted

Almost unrelated on Feather's comment on multiple "L" in English...I learned this in college, it is so noticeable when singing the difference between 'all' and 'la'. 'all' depresses your tongue in the back and can put pressure on your larynx. I tried to explain this to my friends and demonstrate and they couldn't tell a difference. They thought I just made it up, I am so vindicated!

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An interesting note on the term "Zinc-Tongued Raven" is that not only the fact that it could serve as analogous for our 'Silvertongue' but- Wax also mentions during the party in BoM that ravens are often the symbolic depiction of TLR's 'Wraiths' (Which we know to be Inquisitors). So I suppose that adds a bit more depth to the phrase as well.

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Impact

Posted

Not gonna lie, even knowing that on Roshar a "chicken" means "bird", I always just imagine chickens with weird properties.

 

For example, a green chicken with a plume on its head.  The body structure is still a chicken in my mind

 

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:43 PM, Wyndlerunner said:

An interesting note on the term "Zinc-Tongued Raven" is that not only the fact that it could serve as analogous for our 'Silvertongue' but- Wax also mentions during the party in BoM that ravens are often the symbolic depiction of TLR's 'Wraiths' (Which we know to be Inquisitors). So I suppose that adds a bit more depth to the phrase as well.

Kind of like a silver-tongued devil, yeah, I dig that.

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Questioner

Dalinar can learn languages with the people he contacts. Venli knows all the languages. Could he learn all the languages? And how long would that last?

Brandon Sanderson

His Connection is going to work-- He has to kind of be active about it, so it needs to be-- let me see if I can get the specific words right...

The mechanics I have in the notes is he has to touch someone and will learn to speak the language of their native country, that they spoke as a young person. He's making a direct Connection to that specific person and their way of speaking. So if you have learned another language and Dalinar shakes your hand and activates his Connection ability, he will Connect not to that language you've learned, but to your native language.

Questioner

How long does it last?

Brandon Sanderson

I have it lasting-- it does need to be renewed, but I have it lasting basically as long as-- days not months. But I didn't actually put a define on it, so I'm going to say that's not canon. I'm not canonizing that. But I didn't want him to have to keep renewing it every couple of hours. But he would have to do it again if he left and came back.

 

----

#13 Share  Copy
Play/Pause
 

Questioner

In Bands of Mourning we saw the medallions that can give people Connection to the area that they are in.  Two thoughts on that.  One… if a person were to get a connection to one of the areas from Elantris would they be able to gain the powers from the area?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah that’s a good question, it’s not that easy.  But it is an excellent question.

Questioner

And if there was an area where the primary language was sign language, would a person gain the ability to speak sign language to the people present by using that connection?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.  It is definitely related to the Cognitive Realm and how people are thinking about language.

---------------------------------

Cadmium (paraphrased)

Would a Connection medallion work for sign language?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Cadmium (paraphrased)

Would it make the person's fingers move or would spoken word be interpreted mentally as the appropriate sign? Would it overcome deafness?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Ehhh... It would translate the communication. I can say that.

 

^Relevance being to what you are connected, and relevance to time of connection.  If you leave and come back (x distance) then the connection dissolves. 

 
Edited by First Witness

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