To break a Herald

[Shinwarrior]

We know that the Heralds are cognitive shadows, and that they would go back to Braize after each desolation. They stayed there until one of the herald's would 'break'. What does 'breaking' entail? I feel that it is when one of the Heralds breaks the Oaths they made with honor. Herald's don't have spren to whom they make oath's(with the exception being Nale) but I feel that they would have made some with Honor himself. Did you guys have any other ideas about what 'breaking' would entail? 

[NameIess]

18 minutes ago, Shinwarrior said:

We know that the Heralds are cognitive shadows, and that they would go back to Braize after each desolation. They stayed there until one of the herald's would 'break'. What does 'breaking' entail? I feel that it is when one of the Heralds breaks the Oaths they made with honor. Herald's don't have spren to whom they make oath's(with the exception being Nale) but I feel that they would have made some with Honor himself. Did you guys have any other ideas about what 'breaking' would entail? 

I think it's pretty simple:

Heralds go to Braize. They hide, fight, and are eventually captured by the fused. They get tortured. Eventually, they agree to allow the fused back onto Roshar. The "breaking" is simply them being broken by torture and agreeing to bend their oath and allow the fused to bypass the oathpact.

[Shinwarrior]

6 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I think it's pretty simple:

Heralds go to Braize. They hide, fight, and are eventually captured by the fused. They get tortured. Eventually, they agree to allow the fused back onto Roshar. The "breaking" is simply them being broken by torture and agreeing to bend their oath and allow the fused to bypass the oathpact.

Yeah, but I'm just thinking about their oath's that they would have made. Is their oath with Honor? Because if it was I would have thought that the oathpact would have disappeared when he died. Is it with Odium? Maybe something to the effect that they can unleash all their passion/anger/hate onto the hearlds and once they give up their pain to him they are considered broken?  

[NameIess]

Just now, Shinwarrior said:

Yeah, but I'm just thinking about their oath's that they would have made. Is their oath with Honor? Because if it was I would have thought that the oathpact would have disappeared when he died. Is it with Odium? Maybe something to the effect that they can unleash all their passion/anger/hate onto the hearlds and once they give up their pain to him they are considered broken?  

Honor gave the heralds the power to make the oathpact, but he didn't need to be alive to keep it functional.

[Shinwarrior]

Just now, Nameless said:

Honor gave the heralds the power to make the oathpact, but he didn't need to be alive to keep it functional.

I'm assuming that I'm missing information by not knowing about the Oathpact yet, but in my head I've always seen it as a pact between the Herald's and Honor, but why would a pact between them keep Odium & co on Braize. Probably cause it's between the Herald's and Odium.  

[TheWanderer he/him]

10 minutes ago, Shinwarrior said:

I'm assuming that I'm missing information by not knowing about the Oathpact yet, but in my head I've always seen it as a pact between the Herald's and Honor, but why would a pact between them keep Odium & co on Braize. Probably cause it's between the Herald's and Odium.  

I believe the pact was more specifically to keep the fused on Braize. I don't know the full story but I imagine the oath pact was meant to be a one time deal. The heralds would go to braize to keep humans on Roshar safe forever. The oath pact would be weakened when a herald "broke" and relented allowing the fused and the heralds to return to Roshar. Granted I could be wrong, but given Honor's intent I could see that being the case.

[RedBlue she/her]

I think the books so far have been deliberately vague about what, specifically, the Oathpact entails. It appears to make the Fused be trapped on Braize as long as at least one Herald goes to Braize with them, and as long as no Herald agrees to let the Fused return. The bit about the Heralds going back to Braize after each Desolation seems to have been informally agreed upon, not part of the official, magically binding Oathpact.

I’m not at all clear on how an agreement between (presumably) Honor and the Heralds could restrict the Fused, so this will probably come up in a future book. 

[NameIess]

15 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

I think the books so far have been deliberately vague about what, specifically, the Oathpact entails. It appears to make the Fused be trapped on Braize as long as at least one Herald goes to Braize with them, and as long as no Herald agrees to let the Fused return. The bit about the Heralds going back to Braize after each Desolation seems to have been informally agreed upon, not part of the official, magically binding Oathpact.

I’m not at all clear on how an agreement between (presumably) Honor and the Heralds could restrict the Fused, so this will probably come up in a future book. 

I'm pretty sure that until the last desolation, all 10 heralds needed to be on Braize for the oathpact to function. I'm guessing Ishar used his Bondsmith powers to give Taln most of the other heralds connection to the oathpact, allowing him to be the only one there. The oathpact wasn't simply an agreement between Honor and the heralds; Honor gave the heralds the power to lock the fused away on Braize. Ishar said that he could reforge the oathpact, so I see no reason that he couldn't have made it in the first place.

[Legui01010 he/him]

13 hours ago, Nameless said:

I'm pretty sure that until the last desolation, all 10 heralds needed to be on Braize for the oathpact to function. I'm guessing Ishar used his Bondsmith powers to give Taln most of the other heralds connection to the oathpact, allowing him to be the only one there. The oathpact wasn't simply an agreement between Honor and the heralds; Honor gave the heralds the power to lock the fused away on Braize. Ishar said that he could reforge the oathpact, so I see no reason that he couldn't have made it in the first place.

That could only be possible after Honor's Splintering though, since when he was alive he enforced his laws so that the Bondsmiths could not use their abilities in such manner. Though it is already known, I assume, that Taln did not break, which brings to me another doubt. How were the Fused and Odium able to come back to Roshar? (Could be a gap in my knowledge, and I would appreciate if someone could fill it)

[Shinwarrior]

1 hour ago, Legui01010 said:

How were the Fused and Odium able to come back to Roshar? (Could be a gap in my knowledge, and I would appreciate if someone could fill it)

Either,(In order of likeliness)  the return of the everstorm brought them back. [RoW theory]. Shallan's mother was actually the herald Chanarach and when Shallan killed her she returned to Braize and then broke which allowed them back. They have some technology (similar to what Gavilar was researching). Or we don't know exactly. 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Legui01010 said:

How were the Fused and Odium able to come back to Roshar?

We do know that the Everstorm seems to allow escaping Braize, because that was how Ulim got to Roshar (he came out through the storm before it even got moved up to the Shattered Plains). So might just be that. (Unclear how exactly it works.)

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Legui01010 said:

That could only be possible after Honor's Splintering though, since when he was alive he enforced his laws so that the Bondsmiths could not use their abilities in such manner. Though it is already known, I assume, that Taln did not break, which brings to me another doubt. How were the Fused and Odium able to come back to Roshar? (Could be a gap in my knowledge, and I would appreciate if someone could fill it)

I think that Ishar probably could have modified the oathpact. That’s the only explanation that really makes sense, considering the Heralds connection to the oathpact seems to have been dramatically weakened, and I don’t think it would be possible for that to happen without someone manipulating the connection.

 A for how the everstorm works, I have no idea

[Honorless he/him]

We do have a WoB on the Oathpact being between Honor and the Heralds

Quote

luke.spence (paraphrased)

How many parties were there to the original Oathpact?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The Heralds and Honor. They thought that by walking away from their oaths, that it would break the Oathpact. They're going to find out that it's not quite as broken as they had previously thought (meaning the Heralds).

Words of Radiance Dayton signing (March 19, 2014)

 

[Legui01010 he/him]

44 minutes ago, Honorless said:

We do have a WoB on the Oathpact being between Honor and the Heralds

 

The part where Brandon says that the Oathpact is not broken must refer to the fact that Taln hasn't broken yet.