Why aren't Shards absolutely blocking their own Futuresight by their own systems?

[+Oltux72]

We have Preservation/Harmony and Odium who both granted Futuresight in form of electrum and Regals. (I am leaving out Atium because Atium is weird). So why do these Shards still have Futuresight although Renarin blocks Odium's? What is going on there? Do we misunderstand this? Is Odium blinded by Renarin because Renarin is connected to Honor/Cultivation? Or does Harmony have a blind spot in his Futuresight for every electrum Misting? And Odium simply just cares about Renarin due to his position and ignores all those Regals causing gaps?

[+Harrycrapper]

From what I can tell, the presence of someone with futuresight impairs their ability to see the future correctly, not the ability in general. The impact of that person depends on who they interact with, how far they can see, and what they decide to do with the information. With Renarin, he seems to be able to see decently far. He reacted pretty early in OB when Dalinar commented on Odium having a champion with 9 shadows. So Renarin is going to have more of an effect than someone with Atium who can only see a few seconds into the future. Electrum is said to work similarly to Atium per:

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Questioner

How does electrum work?

Brandon Sanderson

Electrum can see future shadows only as far in the future as is done with atium in the books. They use it to counter atium in that they see their own future shadow fighting, and if they see their shadow get hit by an attack, they know to avoid that attack, and they change their own future. This compounds the future shadows they see, which makes it practically as effective at countering atium as atium itself.

While the scope of an electrum shadow is very limited, it could be useful in many situations. Like if you were playing tennis, you’d be able to look at your shadow and tell if you managed to hit the ball or not, and adjust accordingly. That would still take a lot of practice to master, but it could be very effective.

Miscellaneous 2016 (July 15, 2016)

So, I don't think it's going to have a huge impact on Preservation/Harmony unless the person using it is a fulcrum for important events and even then it's limited. As for the Regals/Odium, I think because it comes from him, he can factor it into his futuresight(and that also might be the case for other Shards). Because Odium's Investiture is fueling the visions, he can see them and factor in what that person will do given what they see. But with Renarin, he's using Stormlight, so Odium doesn't even know it's happening. Maybe that's not it, but there's no way the the Regals and Moelach are impacting Odium's futuresight. Otherwise, like you, I can't see a logical reason Odium would allow people on his own side to have abilities that prevent him from using one his most valuable tools. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Harrycrapper
Accidental double negative

[Quantus]

The interference is confirmed to be a natural Fortune interaction involved in seeing the future and not something specific to Roshar or Renarin.  I would imagine the actual Influence of a given misting would vary greatly by their nature and personality, and would argue that in a less interesting Time Renarin might have gone his whole life without telling anyone he saw the future; had he lived his quiet life in the ardentia, he might never have actually had a noticeable impact on the course of things. 

Also, fwiw, Renarin was Greyed out in that he cannot 100% predict him, but that doesnt mean he cannot make reasonable guesses from his Vantage on the edge of Infinity.  Given what Vin proved you can do against Atium, a shard can presumably do a lot more, so they can at least see a lot further down the possible timelines (and probably make a reliable short list) even if they cannot predict it with 100% perfect accuracy.  

And setting aside the mortals involved, in both Scadrial and Roshar you have two Shards that live in the Spiritual Realm fighting, and it's probably their vantages (and perception based changes to the timeline) that are the most difficult to work around.  Compared to the aitum shadows of a Shard, the short-term insight of Allomancy or the reflexive and uncontrolled visions of Renarin are probably a lot easier to plan around.  

 

 

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Questioner

So the scene at the end of Oathbringer, when Odium is confronting Taravangian and he uses futuresight to expand upon the Diagram, we have this blacked out section with Renarin's name linked to it.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is that because Renarin's abilities interfere with Odium's futuresight similar to how electrum interferes with atium?

Brandon Sanderson

Any time that someone else is seeing the future in the cosmere, it's going to have ripples against your ability. Like they are-- you can't-- It's the same sort of thing that if-- someone who has access to atium is going to mess up anyone else's futuresight in any way, because once you use that it's going to cause you to act differently, which then-- And remember futuresight is not very good in the cosmere anyway. But yeah, it's just gonna mess things up.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

 

 

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The Young Pyromancer

Is the reason Renarin's name is greyed out due to a conflict of Fortune with Odium, similar to [an electrum] user fighting an atium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Quantus

[Elsecaller_17.5]

If I had to hazard a guess it's just a matter of scale. Using electrum misting for example, it's just there actions, a few seconds into the future, and only when they're actively burning. That just cant compare to a shards power.

Also what Regals have futuresight?

[Weltall]

19 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

Also what Regals have futuresight?

The only one we know of is Nightform, from the Song of Secrets.

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Nightform predicting what will be, / The form of shadows, mind to foresee. / As the gods did leave, the nightform whispered. / A new storm will come, someday to break. / A new storm a new world to make. / A new storm a new path to take, the nightform listens.

Given the number of Regal forms implied to exist, it's a safe assumption there are more.