A Terrible, Stupid Idea About Gavilar and Aesudan

[Use the Falchion]

We all think that Gavilar chose Aesudan to confide in for some manipulative or secretive reason, but could the truth be somewhat simpler? What if Gavilar was having an affair? What if all that he confided in Aesudan was their pillow-talk? 

Now mind you, I HATE this theory. I utterly LOATHE it. A different book series that I like did this, and it was an awful twist in my opinion. But it makes a weirdly appropriate amount of sense here, more-so than it could ever do in the other series.

Aesudan may want to be the Queen, but so long as she's married to Elhokar that will happen in time. For now, she has the attention and "affection" (barf) of the real king. She also knows about Gavinor's dealings due to some pillow-talk by Gavilar (who needed someone to brag to), and uses his connections to become involved with some of the conspiracies after his death. 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go try not to vomit and take, like, thirty showers...

 

Other notes: 

I had a connected theory that Gavinor was Gavilar's son and not Elhokar's, but the timeline doesn't really add up. THANK ADONALSIUM IT DOESN'T ADD UP. 

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

This is absurd!

Take my storming upvote.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Absolutely logical. In fact after that he had some level of control over her, so he would use her for reading and writing. No need to invoke pillow talk.

[RedBlue she/her]

6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Now mind you, I HATE this theory. I utterly LOATHE it.

Same 

I don’t think this would work as a twist/reveal for narrative reasons. Aesudan and Elhokar are both dead. Navani has moved on. Even supposing Gavilar turns out to be not dead, there aren’t enough characters left who would care that much. A surprise affair wouldn’t add much to the story at this point IMO. 

I think Aesudan must have had connections to some shady people - maybe the Sons of Honor or a similar group - which would handily explain why she’s been let in on some secrets, and also why Jasnah’s shadiness radar was being set off.

[Honorless he/him]

Ew but it does make some sense 

[Use the Falchion]

19 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

so he would use her for reading and writing.

Gavilar strikes me as the type of man who would learn to read and write on his own, and only keep up the façade for political and proprietary reasons. I just can't see him truly trusting anyone but himself with the things he's doing. But yeah, if he didn't know how to read and write, then Aesudan would be of some use to him. 

 

14 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I don’t think this would work as a twist/reveal for narrative reasons. Aesudan and Elhokar are both dead. Navani has moved on. Even supposing Gavilar turns out to be not dead, there aren’t enough characters left who would care that much. A surprise affair wouldn’t add much to the story at this point IMO. 

Agreed, although I could see Gavilar mentioning it in the Book 5 prologue, and it would be a "nice" way to make readers feel even more disgust for the man. (As if being a warlord and abuser and thinking of his children terribly behind closed doors wasn't enough.) But yeah, there's no narrative reason for this, just slimy character stuff...blegh...

[AquaRegia he/him]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:26 AM, Use the Falchion said:

THANK ADONALSIUM IT DOESN'T ADD UP. 

I literally LOLd at this - thank you!  I feel the same way... not impossible and would make some sense, but unlikely.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 18.7.2021 at 1:12 PM, Honorless said:

Ew but it does make some sense 

1. Do  need to channel my inner Steris? People do have affairs.
2. My inner sense of fairness is stirring. Have we ever heared Gavilar's side of the story?

On 18.7.2021 at 2:18 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Gavilar strikes me as the type of man who would learn to read and write on his own, and only keep up the façade for political and proprietary reasons. I just can't see him truly trusting anyone but himself with the things he's doing. But yeah, if he didn't know how to read and write, then Aesudan would be of some use to him. 

He could not admit that he is literate. Somebody has to been seen reading to him and his letters cannot be by his own, unknown hand.

On 18.7.2021 at 2:18 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Agreed, although I could see Gavilar mentioning it in the Book 5 prologue, and it would be a "nice" way to make readers feel even more disgust for the man. (As if being a warlord and abuser and thinking of his children terribly behind closed doors wasn't enough.) But yeah, there's no narrative reason for this, just slimy character stuff...blegh...

How shall I put this, in other cases being a warlord and burning your wife is not seen as an issue that could not be fixed.

[Use the Falchion]

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

He could not admit that he is literate. Somebody has to been seen reading to him and his letters cannot be by his own, unknown hand.

Or he could read it and have someone read the information to him as a "patsy," and also to double-check if there are any spies. But that would be where she finds out about who Gavilar was dealing with, not what Gavilar himself accomplished. No, that would be Gavilar bragging during their pillow-talk. (Or maybe Aesudan knows this, and Gavilar gave this out as a bit of blackmail over Aesudan - the moment Elhokar's wife reveals she knows that Gavilar can read is the moment Gavilar has her killed; or potentially worse, exiled and humiliated for having an affair behind the prince's back.)

There's a scene in the first season of Daredevil where the main antagonist, Kingpin, is dealing with an ally from an Asian country. (I can't remember where exactly, but I do remember that she wasn't Japanese, as that was a different ally of Kingpin's.) She's speaking her native language. Kingpin had his top aide and best friend (as friendly as Kingpin could be to another person) do the translating...until one time, it became necessary for Kingpin himself to speak on his own behalf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUhI4guM4Zk

 

At that moment, it was revealed that Kingpin could speak the language, and never needed a translator in the first place. This also isn't uncommon in media, to know information, skill, or language, that another person is usually required for.*

Besides that, if Gavilar is really trading information with Thaidakar or his agents, who's to say that the language the two were using was even Alethi? 

 

23 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

How shall I put this, in other cases being a warlord and burning your wife is not seen as an issue that could not be fixed.

To several people in-universe (aka Adolin) and outside of it (the Inkeeper of The Dusty Wheel, to name an example off the top of my head), it is an issue that can't be fixed. To many people, what Moash has done, even if it's more justifiable than "I want be immortal with an immortal legacy and kingdom," is far more reprehensible. But Gavilar better have a good reason for abusing and neglecting his own wife (both emotionally and potentially physically), talking so derisively about his own children, and clearly doing something that scared an entire civilization into thinking he was going to bring back the deities they ran from. 

 

28 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Do  need to channel my inner Steris? People do have affairs.

It's not just about the affair being gross (which, of course, affairs always are), it's about who the affair was with. Gavilar could have chosen anyone, but in this theory, he chose the woman who his son had married. What sort of monster does that?

Just as an added note, what Steris was proposing was more in-line with open marriages than straight up affairs. There were rules, regulations, and boundaries in place. Affairs are about secrecy and lying, not just about extra-marital relationships. 

 

31 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

My inner sense of fairness is stirring. Have we ever heared Gavilar's side of the story?

We haven't, and it's bound to be more complicated than what we know. But the man wasn't a good man either. He was a warlord, not unlike Dalinar was. He, as seen by Navani's comments and views, was an abuser. (Also not unlike Dalinar in many ways.) He, as seen by the people he surrounded himself with, was doing things considered incredibly dangerous. 

Gavilar at this point can't be considered a saint by any means. He may end up like The Lord Ruler, who is seen as "the lesser of two evils" in time, but he won't ever be considered a good man again.

 

 

*A more humorous example is in House, where the daughter of a non-English speaking immigrant is trying to use her mother's cold as a way to get birth control pills. House sees through this, but gives both mother and daughter what they desire. However, when the daughter mixes up the pills and tries to blame House in the family's native tongue, House reveals that he knew enough to understand what the daughter was saying, and throws her under the bus.  

 

 

[HoidByOwnPetard]

On 7/21/2021 at 11:28 AM, Use the Falchion said:

Kingpin, is dealing with an ally from an Asian country. (I can't remember where exactly, but I do remember that she wasn't Japanese, as that was a different ally of Kingpin's.) She's speaking her native language.

Madame Gao! She was, quite possibly, the only good part of Iron Fist. She's also from the same made-up country/pocket dimension as Iron Fist (Kun Lun or some variation of spelling).

 

On 7/17/2021 at 2:40 PM, RedBlue said:

I don’t think this would work as a twist/reveal for narrative reasons. Aesudan and Elhokar are both dead. Navani has moved on. Even supposing Gavilar turns out to be not dead, there aren’t enough characters left who would care that much. A surprise affair wouldn’t add much to the story at this point IMO.

If Falchion is wrong and Gavilar is Gavinor's biological dad, it would be a great way to influence Gavinor in the second half.

[Frustration he/him]

1 hour ago, HoidByOwnPetard said:

If Falchion is wrong and Gavilar is Gavinor's biological dad, it would be a great way to influence Gavinor in the second half.

Gavilnor is five, Gavilar died seven years ago

[HoidByOwnPetard]

Well, sure, if you're going to play by time's rules. 

[Use the Falchion]

9 hours ago, HoidByOwnPetard said:

Madame Gao! She was, quite possibly, the only good part of Iron Fist. She's also from the same made-up country/pocket dimension as Iron Fist (Kun Lun or some variation of spelling).

Iron Fist did her dirty. Iron Fist did everyone dirty, including the main character....