Can a Radiant Spren have two Nahel Bonds?

[Use the Falchion]

I have an incredibly stupid idea, and I need it out. But to get it out, I need to know if a Radiant Spren can have two Nahel Bonds. We know that a human can bond to Spren, but can a Spren bond two humans? Or rather...can a Spren bond a human and a Singer at the same time? (But also, yeah, can a Spren bond two humans?)

[Honorless he/him]

Oh yeah, now we have an in-book example of someone with two Bonds! Even if one of the Bonds has deteriorated, and both Bonds are to the same type of spren. Hope we see more of double Bonds!  (but not too much, otherwise it might become Stormlightball Z)

Radiants sharing a single spren between them probably hasn't happened ever. Kaladin's Windrunners wouldn't have known, otherwise the shortage of Honorspren willing to Bond wouldn't have been an issue. Nale might or might not have known if something like this was possible but I don't think the Skybreakers have a shortage of Highspren. No mention of anything like this in pre-Recreance texts.

One spren with two Bonds... I think spren can look at multiple candidates but would both start approaching Radiancy? I don't remember seeing anything like that. We've seen Bonds shift between people (Eshonai to Venli), and Bonds between multiple people (Knight and Squires) but that's not really enough to say anything on this idea. It might be too strenuous on the spren, psychologically & magically, who might get ping-ponged back and forth? This is probably something that could technically happen but why would a spren do that? kind of case, like Bonding a Hemalurgist. Or something the spren simply haven't considered as it doesn't offer any advantage and/or don't know that this is something they could do in the first place, or they just don't want to or it might go against their nature (like spren of different types Bonding the same Radiant or a Bondsmith spren becoming a Shardblade).

I would say it's probably possible but not advantageous nor comfortable for the spren. Currently the spren would also be under double the risk of becoming Deadeyes

[mathiau he/him]

BAM managed to do a weaker version of that with all the Singers so I wouldn't be surprised if a Godspren could bound two radiants. For the other sprens I suppose it'd depends on how much the bound is restrictive, Honourspren has to stay very close to their radiants at the lower oaths so I suppose for them it require a very tight bound that would be hard to share but it doens't seem to be the same with Szeth Highsprens so maybe for them it would work?

Just now, Honorless said:

Oh yeah, now we have an in-book example of someone with two Bonds! Even if one of the Bonds has deteriorated, and both Bonds are to the same type of spren. Hope we see more of double Bonds!  (but not too much, otherwise it might become Stormlightball Z)

Triple bound, don't forget the devotionspren

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No mention of anything like this in pre-Recreance texts.

Not many mention of people bounding one spren too though

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I would say it's probably possible but not advantageous nor comfortable for the spren. Currently the spren would also be under double the risk of becoming Deadeyes

I'd have said the opposite, it's likely if one Radiant were to break their oaths the bound with the other Radiant would protect the spren. Actually I suspect Szeth's spren could be Nale's spren trying to prepare herself for when Nale breaks his oaths/when she has to break their bound

[Honorless he/him]

23 hours ago, mathiau said:

BAM managed to do a weaker version of that with all the Singers so I wouldn't be surprised if a Godspren could bound two radiants. For the other sprens I suppose it'd depends on how much the bound is restrictive, Honourspren has to stay very close to their radiants at the lower oaths so I suppose for them it require a very tight bound that would be hard to share but it doens't seem to be the same with Szeth Highsprens so maybe for them it would work?

Triple bound, don't forget the devotionspren

Not many mention of people bounding one spren too though

I'd have said the opposite, it's likely if one Radiant were to break their oaths the bound with the other Radiant would protect the spren. Actually I suspect Szeth's spren could be Nale's spren trying to prepare herself for when Nale breaks his oaths/when she has to break their bound

Good point, Investiture level & how well a spren can manifest in the Physical would probably be important to this, for both Syl & Pattern, distance wore their minds out, but the Highspren seemed capable of more distance and being more in the Cognitive Realm.

Speaking of Highspren, wonder if they'd be better for double Bonded Radiant: like Skybreakers have to follow a code, right? What if those codes were the Ideals of another Order?

Oh yeah, the Seon Bond? Didn't Brandon say a Seon Bond could give powers like the Nahel Bond on Roshar?

Oh yeah, they seemed to have forgotten even the fact that one became Radiant by Bonding a spren.

Interesting idea. Would it really save the spren though, I think they'd need to be able to sever that Bond. These aren't small Connections, a Bonded spren and their Knight Radiant's Spiritweb merge a bit together. I think this puts the spren in more danger of broken Ideals rather than giving them an option 2.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Honorless
misspellings

[mathiau he/him]

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Speaking of Highspren, wonder of they'd be better for double Bonded Radiant: like Skybreakers have to follow a code, right? What if those codes were the Ideals of another Order?

Oh that's interesting. Skybreakers can swear themself to thing like a gang's honour code so I guess another order's code wouldn't be impossible, the other spren's type would most likely influence what can be chosen as a crusade or not (a cultivationspren might not agree with Szeth one for example) and there's the issue of what freeing yourself of the crutch of the 3rd oath in order to get the 5th would mean in that case but it might work.

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Oh yeah, the Seon Bond? Didn't Brandon say a Seon Bond could give powers like the Nahel Bond on Roshar?

I don't remember anything about powers but you could make them manifest as Shardblades or use them in Fabrials.

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Oh yeah, they seemed to have forgotten even the fact that one became Radiant by Bonding a spren.

The Heirocracy editing every existing documents will do that

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Interesting idea. Would it really save the spren though, I think they'd need to be able to sever that Bond. These aren't small Connections, a Bonded spren and their Knight Radiants Spiritweb merge a bit together. I think this puts the spren in more danger of broken Ideals rather than giving them an option 2.

Before the Recreance sprens merged with their Radiant's just as much as they do now but there were no deadeyes. A popular theory is that it's because they were all bounded the the Nahel Spren (BAM) if it's the case then a spren bounded to two Radiants would most likely not become deadeyes. They would probably still be hurt so for spren with a stable radiant like Syl it would be a danger but for someone like Nale's Highspren it could be worth it

[Honorless he/him]

There are a few WoBs

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Questioner

If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon were to travel to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

It would act very, very similarly, yes. But it would be like... it wouldn't necessarily do the exact same things. Like if you've got two radios tuned to a frequency, they won't necessarily pick up another radio frequency, or things like this. I don't know, that's a bad metaphor, I'd have to think of a better one. But it would be treated exactly the same way but it might not grant the same powers.

Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014)

which imply Seons might grant some benefits to whom they're Bonded to, like the spren

 

I'm sure their Knights breaking their Ideals had consequences for the spren back then too, just not as dire as becoming a Deadeyes

Edited June 6, 2021 by Honorless

[Use the Falchion]

...I was just thinking that it maybe an interesting way for a Kaladin/Leshwi/Syl OT3  or something of the sorts, but y'all took it to realmatics!

On a more serious note, I was thinking that it may be useful for Leshwi and the four other Fused to purge Odium from their soul without risking anything else. Almost like a detox. They bond a spren that is both willing and not at risk (because they have a Nahel Bond with someone else), and can now use Stormlight and Voidlight...and probably Warlight. So they can then purge the Voidlight and other forms of Odium from their soul in successive stages...theoretically. I'm not actually sure if that would work. I think it only worked for Venli since Timbre captured the Voidspren in her gemheart. But that was the impetus of the question - what happens to a Radiant Spren that goes into the gemheart of one so Invested as a Fused?

Culturally, I think it'd be cool to see Radiant Pairs between the two species ala the Parshendi War Pairs from the first two books. 

 

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

(but not too much, otherwise it might become Stormlightball Z)

Implying that we aren't there already - we've got screaming out things to power up, fights in the sky, people returning from the dead, and actual level ups. Not to mention anime-esque multi-colored hair. We're already Stormlightball Z, and I can't wait for the next episode. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

That is what the Thrill did for decades in a mild manner and to the point their eyes went red during te battle of Thaylen field..

[Honorless he/him]

13 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That is what the Thrill did for decades in a mild manner and to the point their eyes went red during te battle of Thaylen field..

That's a pretty weak bond though, as Odium himself noted 

[apepi]

It is talked about that radiants could give their bonds to other people or something.

[Honorless he/him]

4 hours ago, apepi said:

It is talked about that radiants could give their bonds to other people or something.

Are you talking about Squires?

Oh! Yeah, Nahel Bonds can be transferred, as long as the Radiant isn't too far ahead in their Oaths, this is confirmed in-book by the Stormfather.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Honorless

[mathiau he/him]

On 06/06/2021 at 8:47 PM, Honorless said:

There are a few WoBs

which imply Seons might grant some benefits to whom they're Bonded to, like the spren

 

I'm sure their Knights breaking their Ideals had consequences for the spren back then too, just not as dire as becoming a Deadeyes

Interesting. Maybe they would end up with the Dev/Dom interpretations of the Surges instead of the Honour/Cultivation ones?

[BenduLuke he/him]

On 6/6/2021 at 6:48 AM, Use the Falchion said:

I have an incredibly stupid idea, and I need it out. But to get it out, I need to know if a Radiant Spren can have two Nahel Bonds. We know that a human can bond to Spren, but can a Spren bond two humans? Or rather...can a Spren bond a human and a Singer at the same time? (But also, yeah, can a Spren bond two humans?)

We have seen various lesser Spren split in two in conjoined fabrials and if the Gems are broke they become two distinct spren so I imagine that it might be possible to split someone like Syl in two creating two distinct spren to bond to or if she bonded two people it spliting her in half and each half becoming its own spren bonded to a person.

two or more spren bonding one person I would think depends on whether they exemplify the requisite ideals of each spren.