discuss Can aluminum store light's identity

[Charles]

Aluminum can be used to store identity and create unkeyed metal minds.  So, can someone breath in light and use aluminum to store the light's identity?  Could that produce pure investiture?  Could that light be transported anywhere in the Cosmere and be used to power any magic system? 

What if a cognitive shadow was created when invested with light with no identity?  Could they travel anywhere?

I am new to the forum.  Sorry if this has already been discussed.

[Frustration]

That is an intresting idea, however a Trueself Radiant wouldn't be able to do it, it might be possible with a primer cube though.

This could be how investiture without shardaic spin could be made.

Thank you for bringing this up.

[Gderu]

18 hours ago, Charels said:

Aluminum can be used to store identity and create unkeyed metal minds.  So, can someone breath in light and use aluminum to store the light's identity?  Could that produce pure investiture?  Could that light be transported anywhere in the Cosmere and be used to power any magic system? 

I don't think that's how Identity works. Identity has to do with individuals, not with types of investiture. What you are thinking of is Connection, which would then be stored in duralumin.

Besides that, I don't think it'll work because when storing Connection, you are storing your own Connection to things - and the light is not a part of you. A radiant uses light to fuel their abilities, but they are separate from it.

On the other hand, this could potentially create interesting effects regarding the radiant's spren. What would happen if, after the fifth ideal, when the radiant and the spren are one, the radiant tried to store Connection? I'm not sure if it would leave them with their abilities and only get rid of the spren's connection with Honor and Cultivation, or if it would get rid of their abilities too.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Gderu

[Charles]

@Gderu, I find identity vs connection very confusing.  Is light connected to its source like a radiant to their spren?  Or is it part of their identity?  Maybe the answer to pure investiture doesn't require magic at all and all you need is an aluminum vacuum tube and the tone of Adonalsium.

I'm looking at a feruchemy chart that is saying Dualumin can be tapped to seedily form trust relationships.  A Connecter Ferring could bond a small army of spren with ease.  But storing connection would then be problematic for the bonded spren.  They'd start to lose their minds like Syl in Words of Radiance.  An evil Ferring could kill a lot of spren that way.  Sounds like a great late cosmere villain to me.

[bmcclure7]

23 hours ago, Charles said:

Aluminum can be used to store identity and create unkeyed metal minds.  So, can someone breath in light and use aluminum to store the light's identity?  Could that produce pure investiture?  Could that light be transported anywhere in the Cosmere and be used to power any magic system? 

What if a cognitive shadow was created when invested with light with no identity?  Could they travel anywhere?

I am new to the forum.  Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Aluminium stores your identity not the identity of the light. 

[Frustration]

8 hours ago, Gderu said:

I don't think that's how Identity works. Identity has to do with individuals, not with types of investiture. What you are thinking of is Connection, which would then be stored in duralumin.

Besides that, I don't think it'll work because when storing Connection, you are storing your own Connection to things - and the light is not a part of you. A radiant uses light to fuel their abilities, but they are separate from it.

On the other hand, this could potentially create interesting effects regarding the radiant's spren. What would happen if, after the fifth ideal, when the radiant and the spren are one, the radiant tried to store Connection? I'm not sure if it would leave them with their abilities and only get rid of the spren's connection with Honor and Cultivation, or if it would get rid of their abilities too.

Primer cubes let you store the traits of objects

5 hours ago, Charles said:

@Gderu, I find identity vs connection very confusing.  Is light connected to its source like a radiant to their spren?  Or is it part of their identity?  Maybe the answer to pure investiture doesn't require magic at all and all you need is an aluminum vacuum tube and the tone of Adonalsium.

I'm looking at a feruchemy chart that is saying Dualumin can be tapped to seedily form trust relationships.  A Connecter Ferring could bond a small army of spren with ease.  But storing connection would then be problematic for the bonded spren.  They'd start to lose their minds like Syl in Words of Radiance.  An evil Ferring could kill a lot of spren that way.  Sounds like a great late cosmere villain to me.

Identity is who you are Connection is your relationships.

It's more complicated but that's the basics.

[BenduLuke]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:54 AM, Charles said:

Aluminum can be used to store identity and create unkeyed metal minds.  So, can someone breath in light and use aluminum to store the light's identity?  Could that produce pure investiture?  Could that light be transported anywhere in the Cosmere and be used to power any magic system? 

What if a cognitive shadow was created when invested with light with no identity?  Could they travel anywhere?

I am new to the forum.  Sorry if this has already been discussed.

I think your idea has merit. Everything about a person is contained within an Identity including their connections and investiture.

Check out my Fan fic on this topic. Identity weaver. By no means do I claim it is cannon. It was interesting enough that Technovore wanted to use my Aluminum compounder character though.

[ScadrianTank]

That is a great idea! Brandon mentioned pure and refined Investiture in WoBs, and that seems like a great way to explain how such a thing is even possible. We kind of have a president for Investiture gaining the Identity of someone who held it for long enough, so maybe its own Identity determines who can use it or something.

Quote

TurtletheFlsh

What would happen if you created a lifeless with more breath then is necessary? Would they be more or completely human or just a lifeless that's holding more breath?

Brandon Sanderson

Lifeless with more breath are an interesting situation. It's quite possible for the BREATH to start taking on a personality, much like a cognitive shadow, related to the individual. Whether or not it is actually them, though, is a big question. Note, this doesn't always happen. Often, dumping a lot of breath in them is like sticking it in an inanimate object with no command.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 24, 2015)

Quote

Ghero6

How unique are individual Breaths? Would collecting 100 Breaths from criminals and scumbags affect your personality in any way? Or collecting 100 Breaths from generous, charitable people?

Brandon Sanderson

I intended them to not be terribly individual. Breaths do bring some things along with them, but for the most part I wanted them to be a step removed from that

Tor.com Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Jan. 10, 2011)

 

[Honorless]

On the Identity and Connection thing. @Eternal Khol once pointed out that it's called a 'Spiritweb', possibly a web of one's Connections to people, places, things defining who they are to the world.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

A WoB to keep in mind, in my opinion:

Quote

Questioner

I asked if there was there a pure form of Investiture that is not tied to any Shard, and you said that my question had some false premises. Can you elaborate on what I had wrong there?

Brandon Sanderson

The false premise, the main one, is that other Investiture is not pure. Investiture, by its definition, comes from a certain place. That's like saying, "Is there water that doesn't have hydrogen in it? Is there pure water without hydrogen? Can you take the hydrogen out, and make purer water?" That's the problem there. This idea that Investiture is impure because it's tied to a Shard is a false premise. That is pure Investiture.

Questioner

Is there Investiture that is not related to any Shard, then?

Brandon Sanderson

There can't be, because the Shards were what the original... it's like saying, "I've got four pieces of a cookie. Are there any pieces that didn't come from the original cookie." You just said, "There's four pieces of this cookie." What you really wanna be saying is, "Is there non-Adonalsium-origin power like Investiture in the cosmere?" Is that what you're getting at? Or are you getting at, "Is there one of the Shards that is not held by a sapient entity?" Like, you could be asking so many questions from these things that I don't know how to answer what you're looking for. So, think about those, and ask me some of those questions next time.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

(Though of course WoBs are always open to changes if he changes his mind.)

Edited June 7, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope