kandra spikes

[Lesser spren]

A kandra needs two spikes to be sentient and they can replace their blessing with another kandra and still remain the same mind. So if a kandra loses their blessing, they more memories the longer the the blessing is out because of the decay of the of the hemalurgic spikes, what would happen if you were to remove a blessing from a kandra for a extended period of time, then replace a fresh blessing instead?

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

5 minutes ago, Lesser spren said:

A kandra needs two spikes to be sentient and they can replace their blessing with another kandra and still remain the same mind. So if a kandra loses their blessing, they more memories the longer the the blessing is out because of the decay of the of the hemalurgic spikes, what would happen if you were to remove a blessing from a kandra for a extended period of time, then replace a fresh blessing instead?

Another Kandra’s blessing doesn’t really substitute. We see that in BoM. The Kandra tried it and it didn’t work.

[Quantus he/him]

When you remove the spikes it restores the realmic blockage that created the Mistwraiths. Their memory loss has more to do with than than with their memories being tied to and/or stored in those specific spikes in general (the Blessing of Presence not-withstanding).  If the blessings arent restored quickly enough the orignial memores fade entirely and an effectively "new" personailty would be born.

 

 

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midwestredditor

How are there kandra and koloss? Kandra especially, since they did their "mass suicide" thing at the end of the original trilogy.

Brandon Sanderson

The nice thing about the kandra for me in the narrative was that, though removing their spikes turns them feral, you can always stick those spikes back in. TenSoon feared that this was the end of his people, and it could have been, if those spikes hadn't gone back in quickly. As it was, there were costs. Time spent without spikes causes a kandra's memories to deteriorate, and some that were left a relatively long time were essentially reborn as new people. But the race survived, even if it is unlikely that their numbers will be added to.

Brandon Sanderson

Did TenSoon survive, then (as the TenSoon who experienced growth under Vin)?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, though he did lose some things.

/r/Fantasy_Bookclub Alloy of Law Q&A (Jan. 20, 2012)

 

 

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Darxbane

When the Kandra get their spikes back, do they remember who they were, or have they been "rebooted"?

Brandon Sanderson

They remember, though some things are vague or foggy in their minds. Depends on the individual.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Another Kandra’s blessing doesn’t really substitute. We see that in BoM. The Kandra tried it and it didn’t work.

My understanding was that was more of a cultural stigma than an actual attempted and failed experiment.

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BlackYeti

Kandra, you're not getting any more of those. But they can die, so what's stopping them from creating new kandra out of the mistwraith just by recycling the Blessings?

Brandon Sanderson

That is mostly just cultural.

*paraphrased* In The Bands of Mourning, you might expect to see kandra using other kandra's spikes.

Shadows of Self Edinburgh UK signing (Oct. 21, 2015)

 

 

[Quantus he/him]

7 hours ago, Honorless said:

All the WoBs about it refer to the Kandra's own spikes and not new spikes

I mean, that's not how I read "Time spent without spikes causes a kandra's memories to deteriorate" but to argue it further would mean a rabbit hole of parsing the wording of his statement and the presence/absence of "their own" in it.  And that takes the nitpicking way deeper than his Signing WOB can handle (by his own statements).

I stand Corrected:

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"Wait, wait," Marasi said. "Why not give him another spike? You've got enough of them lying around to make earrings, like the one you gave Waxillium."

....

"You are misunderstanding the nature of these spikes," VenDell all but sputtered. " First, we do not have kandra Blessings 'lying around.' The earrings you mention are crafted from old Inquisitor spikes, and have barely any potency to them. One might have good enough for Lord Waxillium's stunt six months ago (allowing Harmony to take control of Bleeder), but they would hardly be enough to restore a kandra."

....

"We did try something akin to what you suggest," VenDell admitted. TenSoon ... relinquished one of his own spikes to give our fallen brother a few moments of lucidity. It was very painful for TenSoon, and - unfortunately - accomplished nothing. ReLuur only screamed, begging for his spike. HE spat out TenSoon's a moment later. Trying to use someone else's spike when you don't have your own already can provoke radical changes in personality, memory, and temperament."

"Lessie," Wax said, voice hoarse. "She... she changed spikes frequently."

"And each was a spike created specifically for her," VenDell said. "Not one that had been used by another kandra. And besides, would you call her particularly stable, Lord Waxillium?"

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Quantus

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

When you remove the spikes it restores the realmic blockage that created the Mistwraiths. Their memory loss has more to do with than than with their memories being tied to and/or stored in those specific spikes in general (the Blessing of Presence not-withstanding).  If the blessings arent restored quickly enough the orignial memores fade entirely and an effectively "new" personailty would be born.

 

 

 

 

 

My understanding was that was more of a cultural stigma than an actual attempted and failed experiment.

 

What I meant was the mismatched pair didn’t seem to work very well.

[Quantus he/him]

15 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

What I meant was the mismatched pair didn’t seem to work very well.

Oh, Gotcha.  Yes, that's true. They are matched pairs, to the point that a single "blessing" is defined in one WOB as the two pieces of metal.  Technically a single spike is a Half-Blessing, I suppose.

[Ixthos he/him]

18 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Another Kandra’s blessing doesn’t really substitute. We see that in BoM. The Kandra tried it and it didn’t work.

I think they are referring to when TenSoon had OreSeur's blessings, so an additional set on top of their original. But otherwise yes, I agree that blessings can't be swapped, though one can take additional ones on top of their original. This does imply some sort of connection they share, or properties transferred from them to the blessing or vice versa, is present with Kandra and their link to Hemalurgy.

[Honorless he/him]

Some confusion in the answers here, I feel like I should help clarify.

TenSoon could use OreSeur's Blessings but he did not replace his own Blessings with those of OreSeur's. He just added them to the Blessings he already had.

ReLuur, on the other hand, was missing one of his spikes. TenSoon attempted to give him one of his extras but ReLuur rejected it and spat it out as it was another Kandra's spike, not his own.

 

(P.S. Blessings refers to Kandra spikes, of which they need two. A pair of Blessings imparts an ability to the Kandra, which are also referred to as a Blessing (of Potency, of Presence, etc.). What ability a Kandra gets depends on the metal of the spikes they receive.)

 

If you take out a Kandra's Blessings and give them new Blessings, you do not get the old Kandra back. You get a new Kandra. It's a bit of an existential question, I feel, who are we divested of all our memories, experiences, frames of reference? Is a blank slate wiped clean still really the same person? The answer should depend on the person's theological beliefs, I think.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Honorless

[Quantus he/him]

2 hours ago, Honorless said:

Some confusion in the answers here, I feel like I should help clarify.

TenSoon could use OreSeur's Blessings but he did not replace his own Blessings with those of OreSeur's. He just added them to the Blessings he already had.

ReLuur, on the other hand, was missing one of his spikes. TenSoon attempted to give him one of his extras but ReLuur rejected it and spat it out as it was another Kandra's spike, not his own.

 

(P.S. Blessings refers to Kandra spikes, of which they need two. A pair of Blessings imparts an ability to the Kandra, which are also referred to as a Blessing (of Potency, of Presence, etc.). What ability a Kandra gets depends on the metal of the spikes they receive.)

 

If you take out a Kandra's Blessings and give them new Blessings, you do not get the old Kandra back. You get a new Kandra. It's a bit of an existential question, I feel, who are we divested of all our memories, experiences, frames of reference? Is a blank slate wiped clean still really the same person? The answer should depend on the person's theological beliefs, I think.

I believe this last part is incorrect.  If you remove both Spikes of the Blessings and then immediately replace them with an entirely new and properly matched Pair, the Kandra can function and continue with their original personality.  The memory deterioration only happens if "Time [is] spent without spikes" and if they "were left a relatively long time [they] were essentially reborn as new people."  But that's a result of being reverted to a Mistwraith and left that way (unable to sustain their own minds and memory) for an extended period of time, not an immediate result of swapping Blessings.  

 

[Honorless he/him]

7 hours ago, Quantus said:

I believe this last part is incorrect.  If you remove both Spikes of the Blessings and then immediately replace them with an entirely new and properly matched Pair, the Kandra can function and continue with their original personality.  The memory deterioration only happens if "Time [is] spent without spikes" and if they "were left a relatively long time [they] were essentially reborn as new people."  But that's a result of being reverted to a Mistwraith and left that way (unable to sustain their own minds and memory) for an extended period of time, not an immediate result of swapping Blessings.  

All the WoBs about it refer to the Kandra's own spikes and not new spikes