Mid-Range Game 49: Lode of Luthadel

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, Biplet said:

He doesn't see who was assigned the kill, he sees a vote.

Well, either way. That just makes him more likely to out Vin over whoever that person was.

3 minutes ago, Biplet said:

Agree. Why in the world would he not use steel to at least attempt a vote or action redirect? He might've even done this, but too many people were already voting on him. Striker knew he was as good as dead. Copper would've done nothing.

See my response to this, but it didn't do nothing. It nulled my scan, which Striker would have probably found useful after learning I was Vin.

5 minutes ago, Liranil said:

I think Matrim's arguing that Striker used atium and saw that Mat had submitted two different actions against him (the bronze and the tin), and since Mistborns are the only ones who can use two metals, Striker new he was either Vin or Gnlkodnfn, so he called Matrim out so either his team or the village could eliminate him.

Technically, Vin is the only one besides Zane who can use two actions- Cett's Mistborn doesn't have Atium or Duralumin.

(Random fact- up until recently, I though Duralumin was 'Duraluminum' :P)

[Biplet she/her]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

(Random fact- up until recently, I though Duralumin was 'Duraluminum' :P)

ME TOO. I said it out loud to Striker and he was like "no. Wrong."

(I still say it like that in my head)

[Liranil she/her]

5 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Just saw this bit

No. Where's Whysper to back me up here >> you don't just leave an Elim alive. And He's an Elim. He's not Vin.

For one, idk if I trust you on that. For another, I meant that if he is Vin, he's as good as dead now. If he's not, voting you off will prove that (if you turn up as village) and we kill him next round if the elims don't kill him first. I'd rather kill you to find out if he's telling the truth or not than to kill him and risk losing Vin.

@TJ Shade Can we get a vote count?

[Mat he/him]

5 minutes ago, Biplet said:

(I still say it like that in my head)

Same  

1 minute ago, Liranil said:

@TJ Shade Can we get a vote count?

Uhh pretty sure it's

• Matrim's Dice (5): Illwei, Flyingbooks, Devotary of Spontaneity, Quintessential, Whysper
• Illwei (2): Matrim's Dice, Liranil

[PizzaPower55 he/him]

39 minutes ago, Biplet said:

This looks like good morning backwards. Gninorm doog

Yes, I believe thou art somewhat correct.

[Ashbringer he/him]

32 minutes ago, Illwei said:

it's not a 1 for 1? I'm not an Elim. I didn't submit a kill on Mat last cycle. Which is why I know he's an Elim.

... yes. That's what a 1 for 1 is.

Mat says that they're Vin and saw Illwei trying to kill them. Thus, if Matrim is Vin (is Village), than Illwei must be an Elim.

Illwei says that they're Village and that Mat is lying. Thus if Illwei is Village, than Matrim must be an Elim.

From Mat and Illwei's perspective (and the rest of Mat's team if he is Gneorndin), they know whether they're lying or not. The rest of us... not so much.

 

I'm more of the mind that you're both Elim, just on different teams. But there's not really anything that can disprove Matrim's scans, which is either highly unfortunate or highly designed. Unless any Seeker who scanned Striker or Illwei last turn wants to out themselves, but that's probably not the best idea.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

... I know you can't really answer this if it's true, but why on earth would Striker, knowing he's going to die (from you or from someone else, as he was attacked)... use Copper? At least Steel gives him a chance of surviving the kill.

Unless he rolled Copper as the initial metal and then used something else with atium.

Just like a normal Mistborn in any other game, Zane doesn't get to choose which metals he gets every cycle. If Striker got copper for C2, he might as well use it. Since Zane can burn the same metals in consecutive cycles, if he used atium and saw somebody targeting him with a kill, he should have used Steel to redirect it. Since he died anyway, that means that somebody other than Mat submitted the kill whether or not Striker saw Matrim attack him, Gnkdsljf!Matrim decided to use steel against Striker just in case, Striker redirected Gnoreidjs!Matrim's allomantic action instead of the kill action, or a weird scenario where Matrim did kill Striker who had lied about the atium and was just throwing out a name at random.

Smoking doesn't block a tin scan, so if Matrim did use tin against Striker he should have seen who Striker targeted. Not entirely sure why Striker would have decided to Smoke Illwei in this scenario. I don't think Matrim could have known that Striker was using copper on Illwei though. Seeing him target somebody without an accompanying metal being burned could have also meant an attack or even a second Terris.

[Quintessential she/her]

@Matrim's Dice if what you're saying is true, then how did Striker know that he was going to be attacked?

[Mat he/him]

5 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

@Matrim's Dice if what you're saying is true, then how did Striker know that he was going to be attacked?

Because he would have seen the name of whoever was actually voting on him. He saw the name of a Cett, and saw that I had two actions, meaning that he knew I was Vin. He chose to out Vin over the Cett, phrasing it in a way that would make you all exe me instead of having his team do it.

Edit:

5 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Smoking doesn't block a tin scan, so if Matrim did use tin against Striker he should have seen who Striker targeted. Not entirely sure why Striker would have decided to Smoke Illwei in this scenario. I don't think Matrim could have known that Striker was using copper on Illwei though. Seeing him target somebody without an accompanying metal being burned could have also meant an attack or even a second Terris.

Well yeah, I don't know for sure if it was Copper he used on Illwei, though I assume so because my Seeker scan failed. I guess he could have targeted Illwei with whatever other metal he burned, but I don't know what that was.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Matrim's Dice

[Ashbringer he/him]

2 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Smoking doesn't block a tin scan, so if Matrim did use tin against Striker he should have seen who Striker targeted. Not entirely sure why Striker would have decided to Smoke Illwei in this scenario. I don't think Matrim could have known that Striker was using copper on Illwei though. Seeing him target somebody without an accompanying metal being burned could have also meant an attack or even a second Terris.

Tineyes can only see one target at a time, so seeing an Illwei target means Striker either targeted Illwei with Copper or his atium-metal. Which depending if he used his Duralumin up or not could mean there's another missing Striker action out there.

I don't think Terris visit, they just learn things. But I highly doubt Mat's both Vin and a Terris 

[Biplet she/her]

11 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

though I assume so because my Seeker scan failed.

Wouldn’t your seeker scan powers fail since he died?

[Quintessential she/her]

Ah, okay so I've gone back and reread what I skimmed. Personally, I'm with Ash here: at this point I think both of them are elim (well, that's where I was before actually, except for a brief moment after I read Mat's claim XD). However, tbh I'd actually rather vote Illwei than Matrim. I don't trust either of them, and I think Mat is at this point far more likely to be NKd. So imo the best way to get results on them is to exe Illwei. : P (also since Mat's Soothing me apparently, my vote will be canceled if I'm on him, because I had a final vote on him last cycle, but it won't be canceled if I'm on Illwei. Therefore, I am literally more effective voting her)

 

[Biplet she/her]

Okay, new question, don't actions fail if the person you're targeting dies when you use the action?? @TJ Shade or anyone really

[Mat he/him]

5 minutes ago, Biplet said:

Wouldn’t your seeker scan powers fail since he died?

Tin and Seeking being last in the OoA just means that the action won't go through if the person using the ability dies before. I still was able to use mine because I was alive to use it, even if it went onto a dead player.

[Biplet she/her]

I'm confusing myself

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

16 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Well yeah, I don't know for sure if it was Copper he used on Illwei, though I assume so because my Seeker scan failed. I guess he could have targeted Illwei with whatever other metal he burned, but I don't know what that was.

What do you mean your Seeker scan failed? Do you learn the difference between your target being Smoked and your target not submitting any allomantic actions?

12 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Tineyes can only see one target at a time, so seeing an Illwei target means Striker either targeted Illwei with Copper or his atium-metal. Which depending if he used his Duralumin up or not could mean there's another missing Striker action out there.

I don't think Terris visit, they just learn things. But I highly doubt Mat's both Vin and a Terris

I'm assuming that Striker burning atium and seeing someone target him for a kill would use steel on that person to redirect it, and I highly doubt Illwei put a kill on Striker. Matrim lying means Illwei is not a Cett and Matrim telling the truth means Illwei targeted Matrim.

More that Striker could have been a Terris, but you're right that it doesn't look like a Terris would show up as targeting someone.

2 minutes ago, Biplet said:

Okay, new question, don't actions fail if the person you're targeting dies when you use the action??

Non-scanning actions still go through even if you die, so Striker using copper should still have been visible to a tin scan.

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

What do you mean your Seeker scan failed? Do you learn the difference between your target being Smoked and your target not submitting any allomantic actions?

My Seeker scan came back negative, but since my Tin one didn't I know that Striker burned a metal. Therefore he also burned Copper (or just burned Copper). I'd assume being Smoked and not submitting an action isn't differentiated, but since I've only interacted with the former I don't actually know.

[|TJ| he/him]

8 minutes ago, Biplet said:

Okay, new question, don't actions fail if the person you're targeting dies when you use the action?? @TJ Shade or anyone really

I'm traveling right now and don't wanna give the wrong answer and it's 2am and basically any sort of scan, whether Tineye or Seeker, will fail if the user is targeting the a player who dies in the same cycle because according to OoA, there is no target to scan cause the target is dead.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

My Seeker scan came back negative, but since my Tin one didn't I know that Striker burned a metal.

Right, okay, I'm confusing atium and tin because atium sees everyone who targeted you with an action so far that cycle but tin would only see permanent actions, so you couldn't have seen Striker attack Illwei unless he was selected as the killer and that isn't the case because Illwei wasn't attacked.

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

I'm traveling right now and don't wanna give the wrong answer and it's 2am and basically any sort of scan, whether Tineye or Seeker, will fail if the user is targeting the a player who dies in the same cycle because according to OoA, there is no target to scan cause the target is dead.

??? so I was redirected?

I'm so confused xD

[Ashbringer he/him]

6 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

My Seeker scan came back negative, but since my Tin one didn't I know that Striker burned a metal. Therefore he also burned Copper (or just burned Copper). I'd assume being Smoked and not submitting an action isn't differentiated, but since I've only interacted with the former I don't actually know.

3 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

I'm traveling right now and don't wanna give the wrong answer and it's 2am and basically any sort of scan, whether Tineye or Seeker, will fail if the user is targeting the a player who dies in the same cycle because according to OoA, there is no target to scan cause the target is dead.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Edited March 21, 2021 by Ashbringer
More Bold? I may have accidentally saved an edit without changing anything so I might as well edit it again :P

[Biplet she/her]

Mat, you're saying your Tineye scan revealed Striker targeted Illwei.

3 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

basically any sort of scan, whether Tineye or Seeker, will fail if the user is targeting the a player who dies in the same cycle because according to OoA, there is no target to scan cause the target is dead.

You're lying!

Edited March 21, 2021 by Biplet

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Well yeah this is me too

So because my scan did go through, I must have been redirected? I think?

[Ashbringer he/him]

Also, you're told if you're redirected, Matrim. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

... that looks very grammatically wrong but I think it's accurate

Edited March 21, 2021 by Ashbringer

[Quintessential she/her]

I'd move my vote but if I do it'll be soothed away so....