Honorblade vs 5th ideal radiant

[AvatarofOdium]

Between an individual that holds an honorblade (and presumably knows how to use its power to its fullest extent) and a Radiant of the 5th ideal, who has more power? Or are they roughly equivalent in what they could do? We know the Nahel Bond is a recreation of what the honorblades could do, but we also see an individual that has elected to both hold the honorblade and join their own order and be of the 5th ideal. Is this for compounding power? Understanding? Or did they realize one was stronger than the other?

I was just pondering if I were a worldhopper going to Roshar, would it be better in terms of raw power to attempt to bond a spren, or nab an honorblade? Also can a single person "wield" more than one honorblade? i.e. get access to all the surges??? If so that seems the obvious choice as multiple bonds to different spren doesn't seem as likely.

 

[Frustration he/him]

Kaladin 3rd > Szeth.

So we know how this goes.

[Aspiring Writer]

1 hour ago, AvatarofOdium said:

Between an individual that holds an honorblade (and presumably knows how to use its power to its fullest extent) and a Radiant of the 5th ideal, who has more power? Or are they roughly equivalent in what they could do? We know the Nahel Bond is a recreation of what the honorblades could do, but we also see an individual that has elected to both hold the honorblade and join their own order and be of the 5th ideal. Is this for compounding power? Understanding? Or did they realize one was stronger than the other?

I was just pondering if I were a worldhopper going to Roshar, would it be better in terms of raw power to attempt to bond a spren, or nab an honorblade? Also can a single person "wield" more than one honorblade? i.e. get access to all the surges??? If so that seems the obvious choice as multiple bonds to different spren doesn't seem as likely.

 

The Honorblades are honestly inferior to Nahel bonds in most ways. Even at the 2nd ideal, they use less stormlight and have better healing (being able to heal from Shardblade wounds). They appear to have a few advantages and exceptions from being basically the Bands of Mourning for the Surges, and the lack of ideals can allow for easier access as well as mixing os surges not normally used in conjunction because you can't (normally) have more than one spren.

[+Harrycrapper]

On 2/22/2021 at 1:59 PM, AvatarofOdium said:

Between an individual that holds an honorblade (and presumably knows how to use its power to its fullest extent) and a Radiant of the 5th ideal, who has more power? Or are they roughly equivalent in what they could do? We know the Nahel Bond is a recreation of what the honorblades could do, but we also see an individual that has elected to both hold the honorblade and join their own order and be of the 5th ideal. Is this for compounding power? Understanding? Or did they realize one was stronger than the other?

I was just pondering if I were a worldhopper going to Roshar, would it be better in terms of raw power to attempt to bond a spren, or nab an honorblade? Also can a single person "wield" more than one honorblade? i.e. get access to all the surges??? If so that seems the obvious choice as multiple bonds to different spren doesn't seem as likely.

 

The Honorblades in the hands of ordinary people are definitely weaker than a Knight Radiant. An Honorblade wielder uses Stormlight less efficiently than a Knight Radiant and can't heal Shardblade wounds. Now, we have no clue how powerful a Herald would be wielding their specific Honorblade back before they betrayed the Oathpact. I would imagine they were stronger than a 3rd Ideal Radiant, but that's speculation. You can access additional surges if you have the relevant Honorblades/Spren bond, but acquiring both would be exceedingly difficult. Brandon has said that having the Honorblade in addition to a Spren bond would increase the relative strength of the powers, so given that Nale has his Honorblade and is a 5th Ideal Radiant of the Skybreakers, he's stronger than any Radiant is likely to get. The only way I feel we'll see any character gain access to all Surges is if they bond Yelig-Nar, who is said to grant access to all of the Surges. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Harrycrapper
Typo

[Chinkoln he/him]

You can wield multiple honorblades and have access to multiple Surges. This could give you new Resonances, which might give you an edge, but overall a 5th Ideal Radiant is much better. They use Stormlight much more efficiently and, in my opinion, they would be better fighters. They have their oaths to guide them and motivate them. While I say that their oaths are a benefit, they could also be a hinderance. If fighting this honorblade wielder is against their oaths then they will lose their powers and easily die to the Honorblade.

[Weltall]

The only real advantage an Honorblade gives is that the lack of oaths might be an asset under certain circumstances. However, the general advantages that even a lower-Ideal Radiant has makes it pretty lopsided in their favor. As mentioned, we see Kaladin heal Shardblade wounds at the Second Ideal and the flexibility of a living Shardblade makes them much more effective weapons than the Honorblades that are locked into a single (generally oversized) form. Also, a Fifth Ideal Radiant (except the Bondsmiths) is going to have access to Shardplate and the ability to use their surgebinding while wearing it, meaning they're much better protected than an Honorblade-user, for whom Shardplate and surgebinding are mutually exclusive.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Weltall

[Bejarden he/him]

Kalak says in the prelude that honorblades are stronger than shardblades

(these have to be radiant bonds shardblades)

[AvatarofOdium]

1 hour ago, Harrycrapper said:

The only way I feel we'll see any character gain access to all Surges if if they bond Yelig-Nar, who is said to grant access to all of the Surges. 

What if you used some hemalurgy to nab abilities of the fused for example?

And how exactly does yelig-nar have this access? Can that be recreated somehow by a bondsmith or something?

Edited February 23, 2021 by AvatarofOdium

[+Harrycrapper]

15 minutes ago, AvatarofOdium said:

What if you used some hemalurgy to nab abilities of the fused for example?

And how exactly does yelig-nar have this access? Can that be recreated somehow by a bondsmith or something?

I suppose that is possible, but someone would have to be on a Steel Inquisitor level of spikes to have all the abilities granted via Hemalurgy. That in itself is a serious weakness that leaves someone open to strong emotional Allomancy and possibly other similar applications of magic that we have not seen. It probably wouldn't be easy to manage, Fused are able to heal and a lot of the Surges make it pretty tough to keep a Surgebinder confined for long. Not sure I can go into much more detail here without running into RoW spoilers. 

As for Yelig-Nar, we have no clue. The only things we really have are an epigraph from Hessi's Mythica in OB:

Quote

Yelig-nar had great powers, perhaps the powers of all Surges compounded in one. He could transform any Voidbringer into an extremely dangerous enemy. Curiously, three legends I found mention swallowing a gemstone to engage this process.

And the fact that Amaram used several different Surges while dueling Kaladin in the end of OB. 

[StanLemon]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:11 PM, Bejardin1250 said:

Kalak says in the prelude that honorblades are stronger than shardblades

(these have to be radiant bonds shardblades)

Most likely the reason Honorblades are inferior now is because Honor is dead. They very likely were superior back when Honor was supplying them directly 

[Argus the Awful he/him]

Szeth could definitely do more damage with a honorblade than most with shardblades. For instance, Gavilar. But I can't see him beating a Fifth ordeal Knight Radiant in combat. If Szeth had the honorblade of Talenelat, maybe.

[+Harrycrapper]

21 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Most likely the reason Honorblades are inferior now is because Honor is dead. They very likely were superior back when Honor was supplying them directly 

I'd say it's more because the Honorblades were in some way related to the Oathpact, which has been nearly shattered, but not completely. The Radiant Nahel bond is said to be based off the Honorbaldes and when someone breaks an Oath they swore to a spren, they turn into a deadeye and the Surges can't be accessed through the blade. I'd wager something similar is happening with the Honorblades, but because Taln didn't betray the Oathpact, the Honorblades still function, albeit at diminished capacity. 

[AvatarofOdium]

On 2/25/2021 at 9:01 AM, Willshaper-Kalak said:

Szeth could definitely do more damage with a honorblade than most with shardblades. For instance, Gavilar. But I can't see him beating a Fifth ordeal Knight Radiant in combat. If Szeth had the honorblade of Talenelat, maybe.

Well yeah he's granted access to surges with Jezrians honorblade whereas poor old Gav just had shards. I'd like to know more information about what a 5th ideal radiant is granted access to or what discerns them from the lower ranks.

 

On 2/24/2021 at 5:44 PM, StanLemon said:

Most likely the reason Honorblades are inferior now is because Honor is dead. They very likely were superior back when Honor was supplying them directly 

I don't hate this, I like the idea of degradation over time, however I could also see how with it being metal in the physical realm the "level" of investiture not changing. But if this is the case it would make sense how they would make the heralds powerful enough to lead the radiants outside of just knowledge and experience.

[StanLemon]

The reason I say they were probably more powerful when Honor was alive is because Brandon has said that they used to draw power directly from the Shard

[DocHoliday he/him]

On 2/22/2021 at 3:59 PM, AvatarofOdium said:

Between an individual that holds an honorblade (and presumably knows how to use its power to its fullest extent) and a Radiant of the 5th ideal, who has more power? Or are they roughly equivalent in what they could do? We know the Nahel Bond is a recreation of what the honorblades could do, but we also see an individual that has elected to both hold the honorblade and join their own order and be of the 5th ideal. Is this for compounding power? Understanding? Or did they realize one was stronger than the other?

I was just pondering if I were a worldhopper going to Roshar, would it be better in terms of raw power to attempt to bond a spren, or nab an honorblade? Also can a single person "wield" more than one honorblade? i.e. get access to all the surges??? If so that seems the obvious choice as multiple bonds to different spren doesn't seem as likely.

 

Honorblades have 2 distinct advantages over SB. 

1:No Oaths

2: They can fueled by their Shard. Limitless Investiture to fuel Surges. Can you imagine? Not Lashing rocks. Lashing buildings. Not "blocking" a High Storm. Steering it into the enemy. Not SoulCasting to repair the wall around Thaylena. Raising THE Wall from Game of Thrones.

I'm terrified of what Moash may end up doing.