+Bzhydack he/him Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, mathiau said: Wasn't one of them in Shinovar? Might be Ashertmarn though Seems to me like Shin were under Unmade Influence earlier. Ashertmarn was not very long ago in Kholinar. But, on the other hand, Dai-Gonarthis was somehow involved in Scouring, and this is not very far from Shinovar... 2
Bejarden he/him Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Frustration said: She was captured near there, as Feverstone was where the WIndrunners and Stonewards broke their oaths, and it'd be odd for them to break their oaths before having secured Mishram, so her still being nearby isn't too much of a stretch. Weren’t there heralds there at the binding ( I thought I heard that on shardcast...) it seems like they would take charge since the probably weren’t insane yet and would hide her in a very defendable spot home to a lot of radients: Alethkar specifically kholinr 7 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: Oooooh. I wonder if Odium purposefully didn't free Mishram in order to keep... whatever the heck happened when Mishram got captured from undoing itself. And then this would happen and T will free her
mathiau he/him Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said: Weren’t there heralds there at the binding ( I thought I heard that on shardcast...) it seems like they would take charge since the probably weren’t insane yet and would hide her in a very defendable spot home to a lot of radients: Alethkar specifically kholinr At least Nale and Kelek, yes
Frustration Posted February 5, 2021 Author Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, Bejardin1250 said: Weren’t there heralds there at the binding ( I thought I heard that on shardcast...) Two at least, 1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said: it seems like they would take charge since the probably weren’t insane yet and would hide her in a very defendable spot home to a lot of radients: Alethkar specifically kholinr You mean the ex-Radiants, that Nale killed. I've seen that theory but we aren't disscusing it, we're disscusing mine, BAM being in Kholinar discusion goes in it's own thread.
Draigwyrdd Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 8 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said: If the enemy was intent on capturing rall elorim the obviously BAM has not yet been captured as that would have made them the parsh It seems as if the Singers had begun calling themselves the Parsh by the time of BAM's capture. It seems like "Parshmen" (as in the slaveforms) came after "the Parsh" (from the gem archive): Quote The parsh, as they are now called, continue their war with zeal, even without their masters from Damnation. ” 2
Frustration Posted February 6, 2021 Author Posted February 6, 2021 @LewsTherinTelescope I just went through Kaladin riding the storms and it looks like the last city he visited is Panatham which is more stormward than Rall Elorim, so I don't think that it is the city under the ledge. Not that it makes or breaks the Theory but I found it intresting that it is not even described in the vision there.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, Frustration said: @LewsTherinTelescope I just went through Kaladin riding the storms and it looks like the last city he visited is Panatham which is more stormward than Rall Elorim, so I don't think that it is the city under the ledge. Not that it makes or breaks the Theory but I found it intresting that it is not even described in the vision there. I don't think we know where Szeth was fighting in the vision, do we? And as far as I can tell, that's the only place he sees after the city under the ridge.
Frustration Posted February 6, 2021 Author Posted February 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I don't think we know where Szeth was fighting in the vision, do we? And as far as I can tell, that's the only place he sees after the city under the ridge. He was sent to kill a Selay Gerotarch, and Panatham is the only city in the area we have named
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Frustration said: He was sent to kill a Selay Gerotarch, and Panatham is the only city in the area we have named We don't know the entire contents of Szeth's list, nor do we know much about western Rosharan countries. He also likely passed Panatham already, as he already commented on people in Babatharnam, and the city is relatively close to the eastern edge, especially if he's passed several other notable locations since.
+mdross81 he/him Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 It’s been driving me nuts that I still can’t figure out what city that is where Kal sees Szeth while riding the storm. The gold hair made me think Iri, possibly? Thought it might be useful to have the passage for reference. Quote Kaladin crossed a strange city laid out in a triangular pattern, with tall peaks rising like sentries at the corners and center. The flashes of light were coming from a building on the central peak. Kaladin knew he would pass quickly, for as the storm, he could not retreat. Ever westward he blew. He threw open the door with his wind, entering a long hallway with bright red tile walls, mosaic murals that he passed too quickly to make out. He rustled the skirts of tall, golden-haired serving women who carried trays of food or steaming towels. They called in a strange language, perhaps wondering who had left a window unbarred in a highstorm. The flashes of light came from directly ahead. So transfixing. Brushing past a pretty gold- and red-haired woman who huddled frightened in a corner, Kaladin burst through a door. He had one brief glimpse of what lay beyond. A man stood over two corpses. His pale head shaved, his clothing white, the murderer held a long, thin sword in one hand. He looked up from his victims and almost seemed to see Kaladin. He had large Shin eyes. I don’t think this was the Selay gerontarch from Szeth’s list. 3
Frustration Posted February 7, 2021 Author Posted February 7, 2021 15 hours ago, mdross81 said: It’s been driving me nuts that I still can’t figure out what city that is where Kal sees Szeth while riding the storm. The gold hair made me think Iri, possibly? Thought it might be useful to have the passage for reference. I don’t think this was the Selay gerontarch from Szeth’s list. oh, nice catch, well this is either Rall Elorim or Kastor in that case.
+mdross81 he/him Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Frustration said: oh, nice catch, well this is either Rall Elorim or Kastor in that case. I’ve thought Rall Elorim seems most likely because of the reference to tall peaks. On the map of Roshar Rall Elorim looks like it’s in the mountains. Also Kal references seeing additional cities after seeing Szeth and Rall Elorim is further east leaving more land to cross.
MGershone Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) On 2/5/2021 at 2:00 PM, Frustration said: Moeloch - Kharbranth Which Unmade was this, and what was it doing? Also, just thinking about BAM and the False Desolation - BAM giving parshmen forms of power with Voidlight doesn't seem to make so much sense to me, since to bring back the forms of power you'd need Voidspren, which had been banished to Braize. So my wacky theory is that BAM somehow made her own Light and gave them forms of power that way. Edited February 7, 2021 by MGershone 2
Frustration Posted February 7, 2021 Author Posted February 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, MGershone said: Which Unmade was this, and what was it doing? Death rattles 6 minutes ago, MGershone said: Also, just thinking about BAM and the False Desolation - BAM giving parshmen forms of power with Voidlight doesn't seem to make so much sense to me, since to bring back the forms of power you'd need Voidspren, which had been banished to Braize. So my wacky theory is that BAM somehow made his own Light and gave them forms of power that way. *her 1
MGershone Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, Frustration said: Death rattles *her Thanks
+mdross81 he/him Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, MGershone said: Also, just thinking about BAM and the False Desolation - BAM giving parshmen forms of power with Voidlight doesn't seem to make so much sense to me, since to bring back the forms of power you'd need Voidspren, which had been banished to Braize. So my wacky theory is that BAM somehow made his own Light and gave them forms of power that way. This is a really good point I hadn’t considered before about the lack of voidspren. As an initial matter, I don’t know that we’ve ever been explicitly told that the Oathpact applied to voidspren as well as the Fused. In any event it does seem to have functioned that way given things that Ulim and Nale say in RoW. Maybe BAM somehow served as one big voidspren for all of them through Connection and spiritual mumbo jumbo? Or formed a bridge to voidspren trapped on Braize? 1
MGershone Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, mdross81 said: This is a really good point I hadn’t considered before about the lack of voidspren. As an initial matter, I don’t know that we’ve ever been explicitly told that the Oathpact applied to voidspren as well as the Fused. In any event it does seem to have functioned that way given things that Ulim and Nale say in RoW. Maybe BAM somehow served as one big voidspren for all of them through Connection and spiritual mumbo jumbo? Or formed a bridge to voidspren trapped on Braize? If BAM was the one big "Void"spren, then they'd all have the same form of power, and it's been pretty strongly implied that's not what happened, but you're most likely right that there was spiritual mumbo jumbo (there usually is, after all). A bridge makes sense, though.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 8, 2021 Posted February 8, 2021 4 hours ago, MGershone said: If BAM was the one big "Void"spren, then they'd all have the same form of power, and it's been pretty strongly implied that's not what happened, but you're most likely right that there was spiritual mumbo jumbo (there usually is, after all). A bridge makes sense, though. I've had a half-baked theory in my head that it might be related to the Sibling making fabrials with so many varied functions. I've imagined it as sort of like, shaping their Investiture into a form like that of a specific type of spren, but not actually breaking it off from themselves into a separate being (kind of balling a bit of clay but not fully splitting it from the main chunk). 2
Frustration Posted February 8, 2021 Author Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I've had a half-baked theory in my head that it might be related to the Sibling making fabrials with so many varied functions. I've imagined it as sort of like, shaping their Investiture into a form like that of a specific type of spren, but not actually breaking it off from themselves into a separate being (kind of balling a bit of clay but not fully splitting it from the main chunk). Oh, please do I love your theories. Perhapse Bondsmith surges working differently even for those with the same spren could help you. 2
apepi Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 It was most likely the skybreakers who hid her. Quote Skybreaker I will seek justice Skybreaker oaths are themed toward justice, fighting for causes, and enforcing social rules. They generally reinforce the importance of moral codes, legal structures, and similar boundaries that protect civilization. The Skybreakers were the enforcers of the Knights Radiant, often tasked with keeping the peace, policing the other Orders, and making certain that dangerous or dark forces in the world were contained. This sometimes gave them a bad reputation among the more free-thinking Orders of Knights, but the Skybreakers (at their best) were not merciless. They were the ones who believed that nobody, not even a Radiant, should be above being questioned. They were the ones that did the sometimes tough job of making certain that the Orders didn’t abuse their power to become tyrants, as the Skybreakers saw that those with powers could easily oppress those who had none. They tend to attract those who believe in the importance of legal code, those who have strong moral codes of their own, and those who think the best defense against anarchy are things like patriotism, moral fiber, and rules to govern behavior. Note that the current incarnation, led by the Herald Nale in his madness, is more rigid than the ancient order, which understood that the law was not perfect, but instead represented an ideal to try to reach over time. Anyone believing in finding true justice, in defending the innocent, and in punishing the guilty would be welcome in the Order.
Frustration Posted March 3, 2021 Author Posted March 3, 2021 49 minutes ago, apepi said: It was most likely the skybreakers who hid her. not neccecarilly, there have only been two instinces of an Unmade being captured while the old orders existed, and Ba-Ado-MIshram was the only one hid. Melishi was important in doing the binding, the Elsecallers had the perfect gems, and the Truthwatchers where the scholars of the Radiants so I don't think it was just them.
apepi Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Frustration said: not neccecarilly, there have only been two instinces of an Unmade being captured while the old orders existed, and Ba-Ado-MIshram was the only one hid. Melishi was important in doing the binding, the Elsecallers had the perfect gems, and the Truthwatchers where the scholars of the Radiants so I don't think it was just them. I am not saying the Skybreakers played an important part in binding her, but hiding her, putting her in the location that she is at now.
Frustration Posted March 3, 2021 Author Posted March 3, 2021 1 minute ago, apepi said: I am not saying the Skybreakers played an important part in binding her, but hiding her, putting her in the location that she is at now. I suppose it's possible, but unless Odium doesn't want BAM free he would have had her released.
Aeshdan he/him Posted March 11, 2021 Posted March 11, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 3:55 PM, MGershone said: Also, just thinking about BAM and the False Desolation - BAM giving parshmen forms of power with Voidlight doesn't seem to make so much sense to me, since to bring back the forms of power you'd need Voidspren, which had been banished to Braize. So my wacky theory is that BAM somehow made her own Light and gave them forms of power that way. I thought it was just the Fused that were banished to Braize by the Oathpact. Non-sapient Voidspren would still be available.
MGershone Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 11 hours ago, ReaderAt2046 said: I thought it was just the Fused that were banished to Braize by the Oathpact. Non-sapient Voidspren would still be available But are there really non-sapient Voidspren? IT's seemed that all the non-speaking Voidspren do actually report to Odium and have intelligence (thinking about the secret spren). Other than that, we've seen Ulim and similar, and the Fused. Have I missed anything?
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