Is Mraize spiked/How’d feruchemists kick the bucket

[i’m in the details he/him]

Now that we are privy to the whole lord of scars thing and we know from a wob we’ve seen hemalurgy on other worlds: I think it’s likely Mraize is spiked. It would make sense for him to have some sort of investiture beyond his aviar bond and we know how much kel likes hemalurgy. This could also explain how the feruchemist was killed as I imagine feruchemy to make someone unbeatable by a normal man. 

[Theoryspren]

They are of course not unbeatable by normal people. Sure they can store health and other things but they are limited by how much they store and a direct hit to the brain or heart would kill them right away. So all Mraize would have to do is sneak up on the guy and stab him directly in the heart or brain and the Feruchemist would die. Sure he could be using a tin ring to enhance his senses but he wouldn’t use them all the time as he would want to save them. So again Mraize would just need to sneak up and stab and the guy would die. Also what do you mean Kel likes Hemalurgy I thought he hated it.

[Frustration he/him]

53 minutes ago, Theoryspren said:

Also what do you mean Kel likes Hemalurgy I thought he hated it.

That's Sazed you're thinking of.

Kel has used Hemalurgy at least once, and knows more than any non-shard about it.

Although him being a non-shard is a technicality

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

18 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That's Sazed you're thinking of.

Kel has used Hemalurgy at least once, and knows more than any non-shard about it.

Although him being a non-shard is a technicality

He knows about it and is willing to use it. That’s not the same thing as liking it. That’s acknowledging that it’s useful and has a purpose. True most people would find it distasteful, but Kelsier has never been most people.

Kelsier likes secrets. Saze wanting to keep hemalurgy secret is just encouraging Kell to keep studying it, lol.

[Clovermite]

6 hours ago, i’m in the details said:

Now that we are privy to the whole lord of scars thing and we know from a wob we’ve seen hemalurgy on other worlds: I think it’s likely Mraize is spiked. It would make sense for him to have some sort of investiture beyond his aviar bond and we know how much kel likes hemalurgy. This could also explain how the feruchemist was killed as I imagine feruchemy to make someone unbeatable by a normal man. 

Which feruchemist dying are you referring to? I can't recall that event at the moment.

Also, which power do you think he got spiked with? I'm pretty sure he has some level of breaths, based on Shallan commenting that he always seem to sense her coming and she can't figure out how. Unless his ability to sense her is based on his aviary. I've been wondering what his bird granted him.

[NameIess]

7 hours ago, Clovermite said:

Which feruchemist dying are you referring to? I can't recall that event at the moment.

Lift found a dead guy in Urithiru during her interlude. Most likely killed by Mraize somehow.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

33 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Lift found a dead guy in Urithiru during her interlude. Most likely killed by Mraize somehow.

I’d be a lot more convinced if this wasn’t the third time someone went ‘the GBs did it!’ without seeing the crime. Once, fine. Twice? Okay... Three times? I’m suspicious.

For those curious:

Shallan’s driver - assumes to be the GBs, but we never see them do it and it doesn’t match their MO.

Ialai - was killed by Radiant, the only 100% not a GB member of the three. 

Gerrah - seemingly killed by Mraize, does fit the MO, and is only suspicious due to the two preceding situations especially when considering:

Thaidakar has ALSO been accused of planning three murders he didn’t have anything to with:

Gavilar - killed by the Parshendi

Attempted on Amaram - the GBs did not send Helaran

Jezrian - killed by Vyre for reasons unrelated to the GBs

This... is suspicious. Either the GBs are going to turn out to be responsible for all of the above somehow or they’re actually innocent, because this has happened too often to be a coincidence.

[Part of the One]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I’d be a lot more convinced if this wasn’t the third time someone went ‘the GBs did it!’ without seeing the crime. Once, fine. Twice? Okay... Three times? I’m suspicious.

For those curious:

Shallan’s driver - assumes to be the GBs, but we never see them do it and it doesn’t match their MO.

Ialai - was killed by Radiant, the only 100% not a GB member of the three. 

Gerrah - seemingly killed by Mraize, does fit the MO, and is only suspicious due to the two preceding situations especially when considering:

Thaidakar has ALSO been accused of planning three murders he didn’t have anything to with:

Gavilar - killed by the Parshendi

Attempted on Amaram - the GBs did not send Helaran

Jezrian - killed by Vyre for reasons unrelated to the GBs

This... is suspicious. Either the GBs are going to turn out to be responsible for all of the above somehow or they’re actually innocent, because this has happened too often to be a coincidence.

For the guy Lift found - Mraize was also after his aviar. In fact I think his aviar was trying to hunt it, which would imply that he was targeted. And further, after he dies, someone stole his shardplate, which seems like a GB thing even more so as they're all about collecting invested items.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

42 minutes ago, Part of the One said:

For the guy Lift found - Mraize was also after his aviar. In fact I think his aviar was trying to hunt it, which would imply that he was targeted. And further, after he dies, someone stole his shardplate, which seems like a GB thing even more so as they're all about collecting invested items.

Oh, the GBs totally took his rings. I just find it suspicious that they keep being blamed/appear to be responsible for murders, but we never see the act committed. Especially when we know several of those accusations were wrong.

[mathiau he/him]

On 17/01/2021 at 5:41 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Shallan’s driver - assumes to be the GBs, but we never see them do it and it doesn’t match their MO.

We literally know three GBs and two are in the same team, we can't assume none of the other would do a warning kill after being told they can. And Mraize finished his report on Ishnah by you can kill her if you want which implies GBs murder without GB reason relatively often

On 17/01/2021 at 5:41 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Ialai - was killed by Radiant, the only 100% not a GB member of the three.

Mraize didn't see things that way

On 17/01/2021 at 5:41 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

This... is suspicious. Either the GBs are going to turn out to be responsible for all of the above somehow or they’re actually innocent, because this has happened too often to be a coincidence.

It's not how guilt works, they're just the most obvious suspect and are blamed when they're innocent but that don't make them always innocent.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

2 hours ago, mathiau said:

We literally know three GBs and two are in the same team, we can't assume none of the other would do a warning kill after being told they can. And Mraize finished his report on Ishnah by you can kill her if you want which implies GBs murder without GB reason relatively often

Mraize didn't see things that way

It's not how guilt works, they're just the most obvious suspect and are blamed when they're innocent but that don't make them always innocent.

This is a book, not the real world. If an author wanted he could show the crime committed. And if he’s not doing that - or repeatedly having a character falsely accused - there’s usually a reason.

The reason I don’t think the carriage driver was their MO is because the wagon was burnt and it’s too easily traced back to them. They’re careful killers, run by someone who does kill carefully and knows how to ensure things don’t return to him. At the very least, if they really wanted to kill Shallan, they’d have waited until she returned. They’re subtle, and burning a wagon isn’t.

What Mraize believes doesn’t really matter. It’s what we know - and we know Radiant was never a GB. (Unless she actually is, but I doubt that’s going to be the twist with her.)

Gerrah’s death does fit how I’d expect their kills to go. Quietly. If it wasn’t for an unforeseen circumstance, no one would have been able to trace things back to Mraize. The bigger question is why wait so long. 

[mathiau he/him]

20 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

This is a book, not the real world. If an author wanted he could show the crime committed. And if he’s not doing that - or repeatedly having a character falsely accused - there’s usually a reason.

They've been showed to be innocent of crimes the characters think they committed once and guilty one (and they arguably did order Ialai's murder). A good reason not to have shown the carriage being burn is it was not necessary and the book was already big enough.

32 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

The reason I don’t think the carriage driver was their MO is because the wagon was burnt and it’s too easily traced back to them. They’re careful killers, run by someone who does kill carefully and knows how to ensure things don’t return to him. At the very least, if they really wanted to kill Shallan, they’d have waited until she returned. They’re subtle, and burning a wagon isn’t.

So easily traced back to them Shallan couldn't bring anyone to justice. If you meant "Shallan knew it was them in a second", it was a warning, her knowing was the rusting point.

Once again, we only know three people of the ghostblood, we can't assume all of them are as subtle. And Kelsier was not always subtle.

43 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

What Mraize believes doesn’t really matter. It’s what we know - and we know Radiant was never a GB. (Unless she actually is, but I doubt that’s going to be the twist with her.)

She still died because the GB wanted it, Radiant only killed her so Shallan wouldn't have too.

45 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Gerrah’s death does fit how I’d expect their kills to go. Quietly. If it wasn’t for an unforeseen circumstance, no one would have been able to trace things back to Mraize.

And unless I'm mistaken, in world they couldn't trace it to them.

48 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

The bigger question is why wait so long. 

Now the 17th shard/Harmony belive they were one of the numerous victims of the attack and not one of Mraize.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

They've been showed to be innocent of crimes the characters think they committed once and guilty one (and they arguably did order Ialai's murder). A good reason not to have shown the carriage being burn is it was not necessary and the book was already big enough.

So easily traced back to them Shallan couldn't bring anyone to justice. If you meant "Shallan knew it was them in a second", it was a warning, her knowing was the rusting point.

Once again, we only know three people of the ghostblood, we can't assume all of them are as subtle. And Kelsier was not always subtle.

She still died because the GB wanted it, Radiant only killed her so Shallan wouldn't have too.

And unless I'm mistaken, in world they couldn't trace it to them.

Now the 17th shard/Harmony belive they were one of the numerous victims of the attack and not one of Mraize.

They could have killed him during the Everstorm. Or at any point in the six? Seven? years between. I think it’s interesting that they waited until now.

What would be the point of such a warning? The book doesn’t give any indications that they would ‘warn’ her. Mraize hints that other GBs may try to kill Shallan, but no one ever mentions a warning. The GBs don't warn; they kill you if they don’t like you.

And, honestly, that whole situation feels very contrived to me.

Fire also tends to indicate anger, lack of control. The GBs we’ve seen were very cold killers. The ‘warning’ works just as well without burning the carriage. That’s the part I don’t think fits.

We actually know four Ghostbloods, but okay. No, Kell wasn’t always subtle. But he was a lot more so than the book makes obvious - he spends months assassinating nobles with no one the wiser. He was unsubtle when it had a purpose - and even then made sure the crime wouldn’t be pinned on him unless he wanted it to be.

Radiant’s statement doesn’t make sense. Shallan made the decision that she wasn’t going to kill Ialai, so why does Radiant feel she needed to? Why assume Shallan is going to change her mind? The only reason I can think of is because Radiant thought Mraize would reveal the Truth Shallan was hiding, which makes the kill personal. She acted at the GBs orders, but she did so for herself, not them.

They definitely could trace Gerrah - Lift would tell them. And Shallan never even considers trying to get justice for her driver so we don’t know whether or not it could have been tracked.

I’m not saying they didn’t commit the crimes, but I am saying that there’s ample reason for suspicion. There’s too much about the GBs that doesn’t add up - including Mraize forgetting he told Shallan about Thaidakar, which is really weird.

But it’s the repeated false accusations of Thaidakar that I think are important. Because there’s no reason to do that so often - unless they’re not false, or there’s something else going on. Brandon’s written a procedural at this point; he knows how murder mysteries work. And you don’t keep accusing someone of murders without a reason.

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

What would be the point of such a warning? The book doesn’t give any indications that they would ‘warn’ her. Mraize hints that other GBs may try to kill Shallan, but no one ever mentions a warning. The GBs don't warn; they kill you if they don’t like you

It wasn’t a warning, it was a coverup. If the GB’s has just killed three people, it would have been really suspicious. There might have been an investigation. So they burned the wagon, causing everyone to assume that it was just another bandit attack.

 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

It wasn’t a warning, it was a coverup. If the GB’s has just killed three people, it would have been really suspicious. There might have been an investigation. So they burned the wagon, causing everyone to assume that it was just another bandit attack.

 

Why would bandits burn a wagon? Smoke draws attention. Bandits are far more likely to just leave bodies.

And it still doesn’t explain why the would be assassin didn’t wait - and never tried again.

I’m not saying they didn’t do it; I just think the situation is very contrived and something about it just feels off to me. Especially considering who we’re dealing with.

Or it just that I’ve been watching L&O and you KNOW it would never be that straightforward there.

[NameIess]

3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Why would bandits burn a wagon? Smoke draws attention. Bandits are far more likely to just leave bodies.

And it still doesn’t explain why the would be assassin didn’t wait - and never tried again.

I’m not saying they didn’t do it; I just think the situation is very contrived and something about it just feels off to me. Especially considering who we’re dealing with.

Or it just that I’ve been watching L&O and you KNOW it would never be that straightforward there.

Bandits would have burned the wagon because it hides evidence better. If the ghostblood’s didn’t burn the wagon, they would have to take all the valuables from it. Bandits don’t just kill people for fun, they steal, and the quickest way to simulate that is to burn everything valuable. As for what the assassin didn’t try again, they never really knew where Shallan was. That would have to attack her when she was doing a job for Mraize, which I’m sure he wouldn’t approve of.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

9 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Bandits would have burned the wagon because it hides evidence better. If the ghostblood’s didn’t burn the wagon, they would have to take all the valuables from it. Bandits don’t just kill people for fun, they steal, and the quickest way to simulate that is to burn everything valuable. As for what the assassin didn’t try again, they never really knew where Shallan was. That would have to attack her when she was doing a job for Mraize, which I’m sure he wouldn’t approve of.

If the GBs were going to fake a robbery they’d steal the valuables. Bandits often don’t burn things; they just leave bodies.

And the fact that we need so many reasons to explain why they would have burnt the wagon kind of proves my point - it doesn’t fit. Or, at least, it doesn’t fit them.

Fire is a terrible coverup btw. It just draws attention. You don’t use fire to cover things up.

You burn things for one of three reasons:

Anger

To draw attention to the burned object

Profit

Three obviously doesn’t apply and one doesn’t make sense here if the GBs did it. That leaves two, which leaves us with two options:

They wanted attention drawn to the wagon/crime specifically 

or

They wanted to draw attention away from something/someone else

If they didn’t do it option one reopens.

 

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

If the GBs were going to fake a robbery they’d steal the valuables. Bandits often don’t burn things; they just leave bodies.

And the fact that we need so many reasons to explain why they would have burnt the wagon kind of proves my point - it doesn’t fit. Or, at least, it doesn’t fit them.

Fire is a terrible coverup btw. It just draws attention. You don’t use fire to cover things up.

You burn things for one of three reasons:

Anger

To draw attention to the burned object

Profit

Three obviously doesn’t apply and one doesn’t make sense here if the GBs did it. That leaves two, which leaves us with two options:

They wanted attention drawn to the wagon/crime specifically 

or

They wanted to draw attention away from something/someone else

If they didn’t do it option one reopens.

 

We don’t need a ton of explanations. Stereotypical bandits steal stuff and then burn them rest. The ghostbloods wanted to look like bandits, and they didn’t have a t ok n of time to pillage everything, so they burned the wagon.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

We don’t need a ton of explanations. Stereotypical bandits steal stuff and then burn them rest. The ghostbloods wanted to look like bandits, and they didn’t have a t ok n of time to pillage everything, so they burned the wagon.

Stereotypes are rarely accurate. Like robbing a train on horses - which was a big tip off to the fact that those bandits weren’t what they seemed either. Bandits are far more likely to steal the wagon, honestly.

I just don’t see the GBs being that foolish. And it isn’t like there was anything so valuable they couldn’t have taken it.

So now I’m thinking that maybe there was some other reason to burn the wagon? If it was to get Shallan’s attention, why not wait until she came back to try and kill her? Because that’s the best reason I can think of for burning it - to lure Shallan. The burning just doesn’t make sense to me.

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Stereotypes are rarely accurate. Like robbing a train on horses - which was a big tip off to the fact that those bandits weren’t what they seemed either. Bandits are far more likely to steal the wagon, honestly.

I just don’t see the GBs being that foolish. And it isn’t like there was anything so valuable they couldn’t have taken it.

So now I’m thinking that maybe there was some other reason to burn the wagon? If it was to get Shallan’s attention, why not wait until she came back to try and kill her? Because that’s the best reason I can think of for burning it - to lure Shallan. The burning just doesn’t make sense to me.

Well, bandits would not have taken the carriage, as it would’ve slowed them down. It might seem a little strange, but there are many more explanations for bandits burning a wagon than there are for bandits killing everyone in a carriage, then leaving all the valuables behind. Plus, burning the wagon sent a message to Shallan, and intimidated her.