Which Shardblade in WoR?

[Storyspren]

In WoR, when Shallan kills Tyn, she summons a shardblade. In the text, there is doubt raised as to whether or not she needs the ten heartbeats to summon the blade. 
 

Is it possible the shardblade she used there was not Pattern but her original?

Edit: Corrected spelling of Tyn

[Ramona Tehradin]

I think you are unclear. 

Shallan killed her mother with her Shardblade- Testamentblade. And Lin Davar is her father's name, not Tin whom she killed by first poisoning and then strangling him to death with her necklace. She hadn't had bonded to Pattern at that time. 

[ftl]

Op is asking about Tyn, the ghost blood kind-of-agent that Shallan traveled with on the way to the Shattered Plains and killed with a blade, not Lin her father.

 There’s definitely questions about what blade she used at what time.

[Xerun]

I think it has to be the Patternblade. Shallan says no further Oaths between the end of Way of Kings and when she needs to use the Oathgate. She outright states her blade is the only one capable of working the gate as it needs to reshape to the lock. Additionally when she passes the blade to Kaladin in the chasms she tries to speak to Pattern and then remembers that she’s given Pattern to Kaladin. So Pattern was capable of becoming a blade before she spoke the truth about killing her mother. So she at least had access to Pattern from speaking the I killed my father truth. 
 

 

If I truly think about it I think Testament was an idea Brandon had writing book 4 that wasn’t planned for as so much about it doesn’t make sense with what we’ve previously been told about Deadeyes. But I’ll need to reread the series to see how wrong I am. 

[Shardbearer]

3 hours ago, Xerun said:

 

If I truly think about it I think Testament was an idea Brandon had writing book 4 that wasn’t planned for as so much about it doesn’t make sense with what we’ve previously been told about Deadeyes. But I’ll need to reread the series to see how wrong I am. 

Theres enough foreshadowing that I think he had 2 shallan cryptics planned at least since WoR.

[IndigoAjah]

7 hours ago, ftl said:

Op is asking about Tyn, the ghost blood kind-of-agent that Shallan traveled with on the way to the Shattered Plains and killed with a blade, not Lin her father.

 There’s definitely questions about what blade she used at what time.

It was Testamentblade 

 

It's silver. Pattern Blade is explicitly garnet coloured. 

 

And she uses both at various times in WoR. Shardblade descriptions are pretty key! We've seen them be relevant clues at least twice before this. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by IndigoAjah

[Xerun]

2 hours ago, Shardbearer said:

Theres enough foreshadowing that I think he had 2 shallan cryptics planned at least since WoR.

Care to share with me what that foreshadowing was?

[IndigoAjah]

23 minutes ago, Xerun said:

Care to share with me what that foreshadowing was?

Well, for one, Shallan has two different Shardblades, demonstrably, in WoR

[Gderu]

9 hours ago, Xerun said:

Care to share with me what that foreshadowing was?

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/93707-impressive-testament-foreshadowing/

[Xerun]

Hmmm ok looking through it. The only evidence people seem to have is the difference in Shardblades. However I’ve read through every mention of Shallan’s Shardblade and Brandon never really describes it. The closest is the Silver/Garnet. But later on in Oathbringer Patternblade is ALSO described as Silver. It’s the best piece of evidence there is but at the same time you could also read that as Brandon just not mentioning the faint garnet lines during the Tyn killing. 
 

ive read through that topic and the other piece of evidence is “it wouldn’t be the first time Shallan betrayed someone close to her”. But that could also both apply to both her mother and father. 
 

the evidence against this being preplanned seems bigger 

 

1. When Shallan kills Tyn she’s bonded to Pattern - so if it was Testament then she should have heard Deadeye screaming like every time a Deadeye has been summoned by a Radiant. 
2. the timings don’t make sense on Shallan’s powers. She manages to use Lightweaving when she meets Wit as a child. And then later Soulcasts a goblet into blood. However it’s stated that Pattern hasn’t met her until the ship with Jasnah which is chapter 1 Way of Kings. 
3. If Shallan didn’t meet Pattern till the ship then she only swears her second oath at the end of Words of Radiance. But she already has a Pattern Blade before that. 
4. This one has been explained but I wasn’t overall happy with it - Testamant should have appeared during Oathbringer Shadesmar trip. 
5. Brandon said getting the continuity right for the Testament reveal was the hardest part of the book and required many rewrites and I can’t see that being an issue if it was planned all along. 
 

im looking forward to book 5 going into this more but I have to say nothing I’ve seen convinces me that Brandon didn’t just have this idea for this book. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Xerun

[IndigoAjah]

It's demonstrably not Pattern she uses to kill Tyn

[Shardbearer]

Well the foreshadowing was already mention in RoW after Shallan recovered those memories.

 

Pattern acting like a new spren that was just pulled into the CR.

Pattern saying he wa sure she'd kill him, but then saying they'd send a replacement. 

Mainly those, and then I saw people posting about describing different colors for her blades.

Some of your points are good though, like why Testament didn't scream or why she wasnt there for their first trip. 

[Xerun]

Ok after listening to Jofwu’s explanation I’m more onboard with the Testament reveal. Still don’t love it, but there was some foreshadowing to it (specifically Shallan saying that Pattern’s voice was not what she heard when she first Soulcasts)

 

but I think there needs a lot more explanation for me to be fully onboard. But I do agree that it was Testament blade that killed Tyn

[Sirconley]

On 11/29/2020 at 4:19 PM, Xerun said:

If I truly think about it I think Testament was an idea Brandon had writing book 4 that wasn’t planned for as so much about it doesn’t make sense with what we’ve previously been told about Deadeyes. But I’ll need to reread the series to see how wrong I am. 

I was thinking about this recently.  Testament was a retcon.  Until WOR Shallan thought pattern was her old blade but so did pattern.  Or at least it was indicated.  
 

I do have a question about how many truths she told before pattern. And does she need three truth before she gets her armor? And one truth to get the blade?  
 

that said I think Pattern killed tyn.  Her bond was broken with Testament.  And she summons the blade faster than ten seconds.  

[ftl]

I'm expecting we'll find out a lot more about how Deadeye spren work in the next book, as we deal more with the Recreance and with Maya. There's weird stuff going on there.

I really, really doubt Sanderson would write the character of Shallan, including setting up a childhood secret backstory, and not figure out what that secret is. I guess somebody could ask him, but I'm like 99% sure that Testament was always the plan.

[Elegy]

Shallan didn't hear the Shardblade scream when she summoned it, did she? If not then I doubt it was a Deadeye.

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 12/7/2020 at 10:16 AM, Elegy said:

Shallan didn't hear the Shardblade scream when she summoned it, did she? If not then I doubt it was a Deadeye.

Yes, but she could also use soulcast and take memories before she bonded Pattern, so...

[FollowYourMuse]

On 11/29/2020 at 4:19 PM, Xerun said:

If I truly think about it I think Testament was an idea Brandon had writing book 4 that wasn’t planned for as so much about it doesn’t make sense with what we’ve previously been told about Deadeyes. But I’ll need to reread the series to see how wrong I am. 

 

On 11/30/2020 at 2:48 PM, Shardbearer said:

Some of your points are good though, like why Testament didn't scream or why she wasnt there for their first trip. 

 

On 12/7/2020 at 9:16 AM, Elegy said:

Shallan didn't hear the Shardblade scream when she summoned it, did she? If not then I doubt it was a Deadeye.

There is a big difference though, Shallan is the only one we know of that is using her own deadeye blade that she still has some connection to, and did not lose all of her radiant abilities. 



 

[Aradel]

I'm willing to believe it was Pattern's blade that killed Tyn. I have a pet theory that Testament's blade is in someone else's hands. After all, when the recreance happened all the spren got stuck as blades in the physical realm.

Shallan still has a connection to Testament, but we never see her appear when Shallan crosses into Shadesmar like Mya does with Adolin.

[Aspiring Writer]

On 11/30/2020 at 11:34 AM, Xerun said:

the timings don’t make sense on Shallan’s powers. She manages to use Lightweaving when she meets Wit as a child. And then later Soulcasts a goblet into blood. However it’s stated that Pattern hasn’t met her until the ship with Jasnah which is chapter 1 Way of Kings. 

Kaladin and Syl don't interact until the wagon scene in WoK, but we see him use his powers before then during a battle (Small glow and faster reflexes). Shallan could be bonded to pattern without interacting with him yet.

[Koloss17]

To the whole deadeye screaming, the answer lies in oathbringer. Oathbringer does not scream when he is held by dalinar  in Oathbringer (this gets confusing fast), instead it was a small wimpier. That was because the blade did not exactly hate Dalinar. I bet if aeolian were to bond a spren, Maya would not scream. 
 

The same thing is at play here. Testament does not hate Shallan. I mean, this is a cryptic that decided to bond a human before almost any other spren tried. That type of character will not lead to a deep hatred of the one that they bonded. That is why they do not scream when they are summoned.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Koloss17
Words be hard

[Xerun]

16 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

Kaladin and Syl don't interact until the wagon scene in WoK, but we see him use his powers before then during a battle (Small glow and faster reflexes). Shallan could be bonded to pattern without interacting with him yet.

When sorry? I just read it and Chapter 2 is the first meeting with Syl, but that’s her talking and Syl later states that she’d been following for a while. 
 

But the only fight before that scene is Kaladin fighting to protect Cenn and it only describes him as fighting like the wind. Which we know has to do with his connection/destiny (he’s a good spearman because he becomes a good spearman) 

 

can you point me to the chapter/page?

[Aspiring Writer]

18 minutes ago, Xerun said:

When sorry? I just read it and Chapter 2 is the first meeting with Syl, but that’s her talking and Syl later states that she’d been following for a while. 
 

But the only fight before that scene is Kaladin fighting to protect Cenn and it only describes him as fighting like the wind. Which we know has to do with his connection/destiny (he’s a good spearman because he becomes a good spearman) 

 

can you point me to the chapter/page?

Don't have WoK currently, but I remember Cenn commenting of seeing some blue or a spern near Kal during the fight.

[gremlin303]

I don’t think testament can be summoned as a blade. The reason the spren killed by the Recreance are all blades is because they were manifested as blades in the physical realm at the moment the radiants broke their oaths. But as Testament was not a blade when shallan broke her oath there would not be a blade. 

[DiePie]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:54 PM, Aspiring Writer said:

Don't have WoK currently, but I remember Cenn commenting of seeing some blue or a spern near Kal during the fight.

From Cenn's chapter in WoKs (page 41)

Spoiler

For a moment, Cenn thought he could see something surrounding the squadleader. A warping of the air, as if the wind itself became visible.

Yep, sounds like Syl.

 

2 hours ago, gremlin303 said:

I don’t think testament can be summoned as a blade. The reason the spren killed by the Recreance are all blades is because they were manifested as blades in the physical realm at the moment the radiants broke their oaths. But as Testament was not a blade when shallan broke her oath there would not be a blade. 

First of all, we know just about nothing about the recreant and what happens when a radiant breaks their oath. It would also make sense that breaking the bond would be very similar to doing so with an already dead Shardblade, which seems to require the person to physically summon the Shardblade before breaking the bond. There is also that WoR (and RoW) seem to indicate that Shallan broke the bond while Testament was summoned as a Shardblade - and crammed in the safe behind the picture in her father's room. It is said that the blade would've disappeared (keyword would've) as soon as it was placed in the safe, but Shallan sees it even after the safe is closed. Even still we don't know enough about how "dead" spren work to make a call either way.

Though it still remains that so many facts make a lot more sense assuming that Shallan bonded 2 Spren rather than 1, the thread was posted earlier but I'll do it again. For a while one of the biggest mysteries on the 17th Shard was how Shallan managed to regress on her oaths (which she didn't, unless you count killing your spren and then bonding a new one as doing so). Knowing Brandon Sanderson, most of the major character moments (Shallan's Truths, Kaladin's Oaths, Dalinar's singular character moment at Thaylen field), were probably recorded in notes somewhere before he even started on WoK.