Master Silver Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 So, not this chapter but the last one with Vynle, I believe there was some discussion about getting Jasinah and Dalinar out of the Tower since they are two strongest Radiants at the moment, and she is the only one with plate. There is also the fact that, plate seems to negate many of the Fused fabrial weapons. So how had is it to kill a Radiant in living plate? Kaladin had an extremely hard time taking out Shard Bearers in regular plate with a dead eye shard blade. What is more, how would you kill a herald like Nale in living Plate. Outside of Odium, Cultivation, Dalinar, Night Blood, and Hoid, I think Nale is the most heavily invested character on Roshar. Harder to kill than just about anyone. Side note, haas a Radiant of the third ideal died yet?
NameIess Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Master Silver said: So, not this chapter but the last one with Vynle, I believe there was some discussion about getting Jasinah and Dalinar out of the Tower since they are two strongest Radiants at the moment, and she is the only one with plate. There is also the fact that, plate seems to negate many of the Fused fabrial weapons. So how had is it to kill a Radiant in living plate? Kaladin had an extremely hard time taking out Shard Bearers in regular plate with a dead eye shard blade. What is more, how would you kill a herald like Nale in living Plate. Outside of Odium, Cultivation, Dalinar, Night Blood, and Hoid, I think Nale is the most heavily invested character on Roshar. Harder to kill than just about anyone. Side note, haas a Radiant of the third ideal died yet? I would guess that Radiants with living plate would be extremely hard to kill. Nale would of course be harder to kill because of his skills, but he would not actually be that much more powerful than any other Radiants. Edited October 30, 2020 by Nameless
Chiberty Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 45 minutes ago, Nameless said: I would guess that Radiants with living plate would be extremely hard to kill. Nale would of course be harder to kill because of his skills, but he would not actually be that much more powerful than any other Radiants. Well, Nale also has his Honorblade, and he's the only person at 5th ideal. 4
NameIess Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chiberty said: Well, Nale also has his Honorblade, and he's the only person at 5th ideal. Yes, but I don't think the Honorblade drastically increases his strength, and I was comparing Nale to fifth ideal Radiants.
Lemiltock Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Chiberty said: Well, Nale also has his Honorblade, and he's the only person at 5th ideal. 1 hour ago, Nameless said: Yes, but I don't think the Honorblade drastically increases his strength, and I was comparing Nale to fifth ideal Radiants. Theres this WoB that basically confirms that while they would be more powerful, its not significant. Quote Questioner (paraphrased) If a non-Windrunner picked up Jezrien's Honorblade would they gain Windrunner powers as well? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes. Questioner (paraphrased) If a Windrunner picked up that blade, would their abilities be enhanced? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There would be some compounding but strength is not as much an issue with Surgebinding as is the strength of the spren bond and how much Stormlight you are using. Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014) 1
Master Silver Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 It isn't just that strength would be enhanced (I mean that can't hurt right, think of two Allamacers fighting), but the Honor Blade gives Nale access to as much stormlight as he wants right? Somewhere it said they act as a direct line to Honor's perpendicularity when used by a Herald correct? So, if holding both an Honor blade and being a Radiant of the 5th Ideals compounds how well you heal and store stormlight those are two more huge advantages. It just seems like Singers try to go around radiants of the fourth ideal and not through them. I wouldn't want to be the guy given the task to remove Nale from the battle field
Dare Shadow he/him Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Master Silver said: So, not this chapter but the last one with Vynle, I believe there was some discussion about getting Jasinah and Dalinar out of the Tower since they are two strongest Radiants at the moment, and she is the only one with plate. There is also the fact that, plate seems to negate many of the Fused fabrial weapons. So how had is it to kill a Radiant in living plate? Kaladin had an extremely hard time taking out Shard Bearers in regular plate with a dead eye shard blade. What is more, how would you kill a herald like Nale in living Plate. Outside of Odium, Cultivation, Dalinar, Night Blood, and Hoid, I think Nale is the most heavily invested character on Roshar. Harder to kill than just about anyone. Side note, haas a Radiant of the third ideal died yet? Hi I am pretty sure that jasnah is not 4th oath radiant it is Shallan. I am not only building from WOB but also the fact that Dalinar bondsmith power does not work with any other radiants except Shallan. Because i belive the Radiants have to be 4th oath to activate Bondsmith enhanced Power 5
MIKIL Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Dare Shadow said: Hi I am pretty sure that jasnah is not 4th oath radiant it is Shallan. I am not only building from WOB but also the fact that Dalinar bondsmith power does not work with any other radiants except Shallan. Because i belive the Radiants have to be 4th oath to activate Bondsmith enhanced Power Yes shallan is of 4th ideal. But it is more or less confirmed(atleast we are sure) that jasnah is of 4th ideal.
Lemiltock Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Master Silver said: It isn't just that strength would be enhanced (I mean that can't hurt right, think of two Allamacers fighting), but the Honor Blade gives Nale access to as much stormlight as he wants right? Somewhere it said they act as a direct line to Honor's perpendicularity when used by a Herald correct? So, if holding both an Honor blade and being a Radiant of the 5th Ideals compounds how well you heal and store stormlight those are two more huge advantages. It just seems like Singers try to go around radiants of the fourth ideal and not through them. I wouldn't want to be the guy given the task to remove Nale from the battle field Honor is also now shattered and we did not see Nale draw unlimitted stormlight when hunting Lift. Its possible but unlikely that the heralds with blade in hand can still draw the same amount of stormlight, if any at all, as they could pre Honors shattering.
Pathfinder Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 10 hours ago, Master Silver said: It isn't just that strength would be enhanced (I mean that can't hurt right, think of two Allamacers fighting), but the Honor Blade gives Nale access to as much stormlight as he wants right? Somewhere it said they act as a direct line to Honor's perpendicularity when used by a Herald correct? So, if holding both an Honor blade and being a Radiant of the 5th Ideals compounds how well you heal and store stormlight those are two more huge advantages. It just seems like Singers try to go around radiants of the fourth ideal and not through them. I wouldn't want to be the guy given the task to remove Nale from the battle field Just building on lemiltock's post. We have two WoB. Originally heralds had access to levels of stormlight no radiant could hope to attain and that the honorblades gave them a direct conduit to Honor. However that has changed since Honor has been shattered. So at this point in time we dont fully know what honorblades are capable of while honor is dead. 7 hours ago, Dare Shadow said: Hi I am pretty sure that jasnah is not 4th oath radiant it is Shallan. I am not only building from WOB but also the fact that Dalinar bondsmith power does not work with any other radiants except Shallan. Because i belive the Radiants have to be 4th oath to activate Bondsmith enhanced Power I understand most of what you wrote is a theory but we don't know why dalinar hasn't been able to augment the others. We know from brandon that it manifests differently from order to order. So it could just be they are expecting it to act one way, when it acts another. For instance i would hazard that they would assume it would empower kaladins gravitation powers, but i saw a theory on the board that posits it strenthens or increases the number of his squires. I could easily see them testing and re testing the gravitation only to not realize people across urithiru suddenly got windrunner powers briefly and didnt get a chance to discover them. 4
Master Silver Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 Brandon said that the oath pact isn't as broken as they think, but I have a hard time knowing what that means. Do all Honor blades need to be used to make the mechanism work again. Also in terms of the honor blades, with Dalinar picking up the largest part of Honor that remains (I feel like the Storm Father is more invested than in the past and he is also the cognitive shadow of Tanavast in part now) that may allow the honor blades to function somewhat. I'm still bothered that Dalinar doesn't have a blade and plate.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted November 1, 2020 Posted November 1, 2020 10 hours ago, Pathfinder said: However that has changed since Honor has been shattered. Do we have a WoB saying this? I haven't seen it. (I also didn't realize that the Honorblades granting the conduit was confirmed from a WoB, I thought it was just vague and said the Heralds had access?)
Pathfinder Posted November 1, 2020 Posted November 1, 2020 1 hour ago, beewall said: Do we have a WoB saying this? I haven't seen it. (I also didn't realize that the Honorblades granting the conduit was confirmed from a WoB, I thought it was just vague and said the Heralds had access?) No problemo. Here you go (side note I think there is a third but I am blanking at the moment. I will do a little more digging to see if it triggers anything): Steeldancer The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor? Brandon Sanderson Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence. Steeldancer Like Vin and Elend? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do. Steeldancer The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson RAFO Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017) WindRunner88 (paraphrased) So far during The Stormlight Archive we've seen that the spren bond appears to have some distinct advantages (i.e. armor, more efficient Stormlight consumption, access to a variety of weapons) over what Tanavast via the Oathpact provided the Heralds. With the exception of Nale, and the fact that the Heralds had no need for Stormlight, can you please tell me one way in which a Herald had a distinct advantage over a level 5 Radiant of their corresponding order? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Rebirth. *pause* The Heralds had access to raw levels of power that no Radiant could obtain. BookCon 2018 (June 1, 2018) 2
LewsTherinTelescope Posted November 1, 2020 Posted November 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: No problemo. Here you go (side note I think there is a third but I am blanking at the moment. I will do a little more digging to see if it triggers anything): Thanks! I'd seen the first WoB, but somehow I never actually processed it lol. (I knew the Heralds had access to the direct conduit thing, just didn't realize it was confirmed it was through the Honorblades, though I was on that side still.) How do we know that that has changed since Honor's Splintering? I feel like it's possible that the people using them now just don't know about it and so can't use it, similar to metalminds. (I mean, Szeth thinks they need 10 heartbeats still!) 1
Master Silver Posted November 2, 2020 Author Posted November 2, 2020 Unless the heralds access to extra stormlight allows them to do different things with the surges, some sets of surges would be far stronger than others. For example, a Wind Runner of the 5th ideal, is likely not disadvantaged facing Jezrian (outside of experience and running out of stormlight). On the other hand, soul casting takes a lot of time, so Jasinah facing her herald counterpart would be much more limited because of her lack of stormlight
Lemiltock Posted November 2, 2020 Posted November 2, 2020 On 01/11/2020 at 0:15 PM, beewall said: Thanks! I'd seen the first WoB, but somehow I never actually processed it lol. (I knew the Heralds had access to the direct conduit thing, just didn't realize it was confirmed it was through the Honorblades, though I was on that side still.) How do we know that that has changed since Honor's Splintering? I feel like it's possible that the people using them now just don't know about it and so can't use it, similar to metalminds. (I mean, Szeth thinks they need 10 heartbeats still!) Brandon does say had, instead of has which is only minor but hints at it not being available any more Quote WindRunner88 (paraphrased) So far during The Stormlight Archive we've seen that the spren bond appears to have some distinct advantages (i.e. armor, more efficient Stormlight consumption, access to a variety of weapons) over what Tanavast via the Oathpact provided the Heralds. With the exception of Nale, and the fact that the Heralds had no need for Stormlight, can you please tell me one way in which a Herald had a distinct advantage over a level 5 Radiant of their corresponding order? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Rebirth. *pause* The Heralds had access to raw levels of power that no Radiant could obtain. Theres also a couple others that talk about splintering making them less than before or affecting people using their magics Quote Questioner What would happen to the listeners if Odium were to be Splintered? Brandon Sanderson Odium being Splintered would not terribly affect the listeners. Now, various other members of that faction like the singers and the Fused might see effects. The listeners could deal with that very easily. Wouldn't even affect them. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) Quote Little Wilson You mentioned that half(-ish) Shards are whole at-- during Shadows of Self. Is that counting Splinters? Brandon Sanderson Okay, one more time. Little Wilson You mentioned that half-- like I think it was at the Bands of Mourning release party-- you said that "half-ish Shards are whole" during Shadows of Self. Brandon Sanderson "Half-ish Shards are whole?" Little Wilson Yeah, you didn't want to do the math, because it was-- *interrupted* Brandon Sanderson Oh, I get it. You're saying-- Okay, so I'm sorry. I'm trying to think of Shards that are half-powered. That's not what you're saying. Half of the existing Shards. Little Wilson Yes, yes. Brandon Sanderson Okay, got it. Yeah. Little Wilson And does that-- is that counting Splinters? Splintered Shards? Brandon Sanderson Um, no. I mean, a-- Splintered is one of the ways that they are not considered whole. Zas678 Like completely Splintered as in Dominion and Devotion. Brandon Sanderson Yeah. That's what-- That's the opposite of whole. Zas678 But having a Splinter, like Endowment... Little Wilson Because I-- I was kind of going with "Shattered" <and> "Splintered". So Shattered would be kind of what I was going with Devotion and Dominion. Brandon Sanderson Okay. Little Wilson And then Splintered would be more like... You mentioned that Honor kind of Splintered himself off to create the spren before-- Isaac Stewart Oh, and that's mentioned isn't it? Brandon Sanderson Right, but you've got to keep in mind that-- um... So in Scadrial, Ruin and Preservation did the same thing. Their bodies are part of the world. They-- if their exist-- like, the things on the Spiritual Realm don't matter where they are in relation to each other and things like this. All those <piece> spren are still Honor, when he was alive. Does that make sense? Like, yes those are little Splinters of Honor, but they are still Honor. It's not like he's diminished, because his whole essence is the world, right? There is no diminishing that. And so that thing is we're talking about the fracturing of the mind and the killing of the Shard. That's the distinction between whole and not whole as I was making it for you there. Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016) 1
LewsTherinTelescope Posted November 2, 2020 Posted November 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Lemiltock said: Brandon does say had, instead of has which is only minor but hints at it not being available any more I mean, it's not like most of the Heralds exactly have their Honorblades anymore. 1 hour ago, Lemiltock said: Theres also a couple others that talk about splintering making them less than before or affecting people using their magics Second one explicitly says it's not less than before, first one is super vague and does not say anything about what those effects are.
Lemiltock Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, beewall said: I mean, it's not like most of the Heralds exactly have their Honorblades anymore. Nale does, and weve seen him surgebind while in possetion of it. But yes i agree this one is vague, and minor at best 1 hour ago, beewall said: Second one explicitly says it's not less than before, first one is super vague and does not say anything about what those effects are. Only when hes talking about the amoubtnof investiture, but the mind behind it is diminished. So there is not less honor keyed investiture because he was shattered, but the shard itself is diminished (not whole) because there is no mind behind it. Quote And so that thing is we're talking about the fracturing of the mind and the killing of the Shard. That's the distinction between whole and not whole as I was making it for you there.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Lemiltock said: Nale does, and weve seen him surgebind while in possetion of it. But yes i agree this one is vague, and minor at best That's a Herald, singular, not Heralds plural But yeah that's just me being super pedantic, lol. 37 minutes ago, Lemiltock said: Only when hes talking about the amoubtnof investiture, but the mind behind it is diminished. So there is not less honor keyed investiture because he was shattered, but the shard itself is diminished (not whole) because there is no mind behind it. In my opinion, if Stormlight can still come through from the Spiritual during a highstorm, the Investiture in the Spiritual is whole enough to be drawn through an Honorblade. But that's pure opinion, don't think we have enough to be fully sure. Edited November 3, 2020 by beewall
Lemiltock Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 18 minutes ago, beewall said: That's a Herald, singular, not Heralds plural But yeah that's just me being super pedantic, lol. In my opinion, if Stormlight can still come through from the Spiritual during a highstorm, the Investiture in the Spiritual is whole enough to be drawn through an Honorblade. But that's pure opinion, don't think we have enough to be fully sure. It comes through the Stormfather not the e shard of honor. Quote Narkac Where does the Stormlight in highstorms come from? Is there like a "rain cycle", but for the Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson The Stormlight in the highstorm is transferred from the Spiritual realm through the Stormfather into the highstorm. Paris signing (Oct. 22, 2016)
LewsTherinTelescope Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Lemiltock said: It comes through the Stormfather not the e shard of honor. The Stormfather brings it through, sure, but presumably it's still Honor's Investiture. Edited November 3, 2020 by beewall
Lemiltock Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, beewall said: The Stormfather brings it through, sure, but presumably it's still Honor's Investiture. Certainly, but its not that the honorblades have lost their ability to draw stormlight, just their conduit (Honor) Edited November 3, 2020 by Lemiltock Typo
LewsTherinTelescope Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 Just now, Lemiltock said: Certainly, but its not that the honorblades have lost their abilitie to draw stormlight, just their conduit (Honor) I fail to see why the Honorblades would have issues when the Stormfather does not. We know that the Honorblades are parts of Honor's soul that grant access to the power, so imo, it should work just fine, as long as the power exists in the Spiritual (and the SF being able to draw out the power would imo prove that there's still a massive amount in the SR).
Lemiltock Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, beewall said: I fail to see why the Honorblades would have issues when the Stormfather does not. We know that the Honorblades are parts of Honor's soul that grant access to the power, so imo, it should work just fine, as long as the power exists in the Spiritual (and the SF being able to draw out the power would imo prove that there's still a massive amount in the SR). As i said the issue is with the conduit. The stormfather is his own conduit, so his conduit is not broken the power can still flow from the spiritual realm. The honorblades, however, are not their own conduit, they are connected the spiritual by the shrd Honor which is broken. This is the same reason why Syl cant manifest stormlight despite being a piece, she has no conduit to draw stormlight from the spiritual realm.
LewsTherinTelescope Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lemiltock said: The honorblades, however, are not their own conduit Do we know this? I'd say they probably are. Quote Steeldancer The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor? Brandon Sanderson Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence. ... Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017) To me, this says they are the conduit to the essence of Honor in the Spiritual.
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