So who is Restares or what's up with him

[Zelly]

Quote

“Assuming I am able to do this,” Shallan said, “what should I do with the man? Are you sending me to kill him?”

“Don’t be so hasty,” Mraize said. “When you find him, you’ll know what to do.”

“I doubt that.”

“Oh, you will. And once you successfully return from this mission, your reward will be—as always—something for which you hunger. Answers. All of them.”

This conversation set off sooooooo many warning flags for me. Mraize is obviously setting Shallan up for something in this meeting.

1st thought is that he's a character we already know, or that Shallan especially knows. I'm not sure who this could be....A Herald? Someone she thought was dead, but had been hiding? A hidden figure from her suppressed childhood? (this seems the most likely to me)

If not the above, then something has to be set up which has Mraize so confident in Shallan's future decisions.  

[LuckyJim]

Maybe he's a Sleepless, and the one who wrote the epigraph for the Way of Kings (one of them will destroy us). Either that or he's a spren or something, I just really doubt he's human.

I might just be missing something important, but it seems really weird to me that a human managed to get into Lasting Integrity and convince the honorspren to let him stay.

Edited October 1, 2020 by LuckyJim

[Dracnor]

6 hours ago, Zelly said:

A hidden figure from her suppressed childhood? (this seems the most likely to me)

That, or at least something she suppresses (i'm really really not a fan of the Formless taking control theories but maybe that's it). Veil notes it : Shallan is hiding something about all this.

[Karger]

5 hours ago, LuckyJim said:

I just really doubt he's human.

Mraize says he is.

Quote

Get in, then find Restares. There should be no more than a handful of humans in the city; in fact, he might be the only one. We don’t know.”

 

[Black_Shoshan]

When Shallan eavesdrops on Mraize in WoR, he says this about Restares:

Quote

“You will bring these pages to Master Thaidakar. We are close, but so—it appears—are Restares’s cronies.”

The response came in a rasping voice. Shallan couldn’t make it out. “No, I’m not worried about that one. The old fool sows chaos, but does not reach for the power offered by opportunity. He hides in his insignificant city, listening to its songs, thinking he plays in world events. He has no idea. His is not the position of the hunter. This creature in Tukar, however, is different. I’m not convinced he is human. If he is, he’s certainly not of the local species. . . .”

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (The Stormlight Archive, Book 2) (pp. 632-633). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

From this it seems like:

1. Mraize and the ghostbloods knew his identity already then.

2. He is apparently an old human man, and apparently Rosharan.

3. He is probably not a Herald, as Mraize calls Ishar "different", as compared to Restares.

What is less certain:

Was Restares already in Lasting Integrity at this point in time? I would tend to think not, as calling Lasting Integrity "his insignificant city" doesn't seem to fit. Also, Amaram plans to send a spanreed to Restares at the end of WoR. Can someone spanreed a person who is in Shadesmar?

[Subvisual Haze]

I think the "old fool" is referring to Taravangian there.

[Gilphon]

So Ialai said that the Ghostbloods would try to kill Restares. I'm inclined to take her at her word. So the implication would be that finding Restares will somehow make Shallan want to kill him. 

[+honorblades]

50 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

So Ialai said that the Ghostbloods would try to kill Restares. I'm inclined to take her at her word. So the implication would be that finding Restares will somehow make Shallan want to kill him. 

I don’t necessarily want this to be the case because it feels a little.. cheap? easy to predict? but it seems as though seeing Restares will trigger a memory from Shallan’s youth, something that happened between Shallan and Restares. Something that would make Shallan want to kill him. 
 

Personally I’m hoping it’s more complicated than that. 

[Subvisual Haze]

Shallan swearing enough oaths to summon Pattern as a child is still a complete mystery.  Perhaps Restares played a part in that. Or used her as bait, knowing that her bonding a spren guaranteed an intervention by the Skybreakers and hopefully contact with Nale.

[+Bliev]

 

2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Shallan swearing enough oaths to summon Pattern as a child is still a complete mystery.  Perhaps Restares played a part in that. Or used her as bait, knowing that her bonding a spren guaranteed an intervention by the Skybreakers and hopefully contact with Nale.

Yeah, I can totally see them using her as bait. Pattern was a gardener in Shadesmar, so it makes sense that he would seek out a bond in the garden. I can see them potentially "breaking" Shallan as a child (*shudders*) and then taking her to the garden every day and trying to promote the bond.

Do we think that maybe Restares is Dreder, and he was never a Skybreaker acolyte "for real" but rather was there to experiment with and seek out Nahel bonds in general--whether Cryptic or Skybreaker he didn't care? Maybe this will be either the moment that will force her to face her past, and get more answers for her mother's actions (which I think is what she really wants to know). 

Edit: my bad--Wyndle was the gardener. Stupid brain fart.  Thanks @Nathrangking!!

Edited October 1, 2020 by Bliev

[Nathrangking]

11 minutes ago, Bliev said:

 

Yeah, I can totally see them using her as bait. Pattern was a gardener in Shadesmar, so it makes sense that he would seek out a bond in the garden. I can see them potentially "breaking" Shallan as a child (*shudders*) and then taking her to the garden every day and trying to promote the bond.

Do we think that maybe Restares is Dreder, and he was never a Skybreaker acolyte "for real" but rather was there to experiment with and seek out Nahel bonds in general--whether Cryptic or Skybreaker he didn't care? Maybe this will be either the moment that will force her to face her past, and get more answers for her mother's actions (which I think is what she really wants to know). 

I think that you mean Wydle. He was the gardener. Personally, I think that Restares will not be someone that we know Shallan to have known. To me it almost feels like a cheap twist. Mraize says that Shallan would know what to do with him. Could it be that the reason for that is because he knows just the kind of man that Restares is? Restares might drive Veil to take drastic action simply by his nature as zealot. I would not be surprised if Restares has prepared for people to come after him in Lasting Integrity. I have no doubt that Mraize would have heard whispers of such preparations. Adolin as a Kholin would make an enticing target. Mraize may well be setting Shallan up to deal with him once she gets what he wants. It is also possible that Mraize may offer to kill Restares for her if in the attempt to take him something were to happen to Adolin. That might just complete the job of driving her into his arms.

[Govir]

So random thought I had: what if Restares is Helaran in some fashion (e.g. fully alive or a cognitive shadow after dying)?

This is due to the combination of RoW saying Shallan would know what to do when she found Restares and someone saying they think Helaran could still be alive.

It’s a crackpot theory, I know, but I would be ok with it.

[+Oltux72]

On 1.10.2020 at 7:12 PM, Gilphon said:

So Ialai said that the Ghostbloods would try to kill Restares. I'm inclined to take her at her word. So the implication would be that finding Restares will somehow make Shallan want to kill him. 

Then why not just say so? Wanting a man who tried to trigger a desolation dead is not a monstrous wish. Nor would Mraize have any problem killing a man. He might give an extra justification, but would say what the Ghostbloods want.

On 1.10.2020 at 8:06 PM, lightweaver spy said:

I don’t necessarily want this to be the case because it feels a little.. cheap? easy to predict? but it seems as though seeing Restares will trigger a memory from Shallan’s youth, something that happened between Shallan and Restares.

Indeed. So are we barking up the wrong tree asking who Restares is? May the question be what he is

• ardent
• offworlder
• a particular ethnicity

any ideas?

This one feels odd, because usually with these open question, there are so many options, but in this case we are running out of sane options.

[+Bliev]

@Oltux72 that’s why I wondered if he was Dreder, Shallan’s moms “lover”. If he wasn’t really dead, and wasn’t really a Skybreaker acolyte.

in OB, Mraize’s letter to Veil brings up the the Sons of Honor and then transitions to the Skybreakers. It implies that the person with her mother was a skybreaker acolyte. But both groups were in opposition...and it’s possible that heleran or dreder were convinced to change sides. Or were moles to begin with. Pattern notes that the letter had lies and secrets in it. Mraize was trying to imply something that was untrue.

Unless Restares is a title (like Sadeas), not a name, it couldn’t be Heleran. But it could have been Dreder, particularly if he didn’t die that day that Shallan remembers as “two corpses, but only one that bled” in WOR. 

[+Oltux72]

7 minutes ago, Bliev said:

@Oltux72 that’s why I wondered if he was Dreder, Shallan’s moms “lover”. If he wasn’t really dead, and wasn’t really a Skybreaker acolyte.

But why? Why do you want to make such a complicated u-turn when you are already at the head of the Sons of Honor. And why wouldn't Shallan not just have him killed? And why wouldn't Mraize just tell her? The man that destroyed her family would make her even more eager to go.

[+Bliev]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

But why? Why do you want to make such a complicated u-turn when you are already at the head of the Sons of Honor. And why wouldn't Shallan not just have him killed? And why wouldn't Mraize just tell her? The man that destroyed her family would make her even more eager to go.

I wouldn’t think it was a u turn but rather a demonstration that the things that happened to her were orchestrated by outside forces that she couldn’t have understood. I think Mraize knows that Veil needs the draw of mystery to keep her engaged, and her knows that there’s no way the three would kill him without getting answers from him. i think he wants to keep her off guard, doubting, questioning. If he says “oh that guy with your mom” there’s no way she doesn’t demand info now. There’s also a possibility that she shatters.

I don’t really have an opinion, really, but it’s the only person really not accounted for in her memory imo...this mysterious fellow who is labeled as her “mother’s lover” and used as the reason that “her father killed her mother”. Shallan blames him for changing her mother. Well, what if he did? What if he is the reason that Shallan killed her mom? 

[Schneeente]

I'm in the camp that thinks that Shallan has already met him. Namely when Restares recruited her brother...  

[Black_Shoshan]

2 hours ago, Bliev said:

Unless Restares is a title (like Sadeas), not a name, it couldn’t be Heleran. But it could have been Dreder, particularly if he didn’t die that day that Shallan remembers as “two corpses, but only one that bled” in WOR. 

The corpse that didn't bleed was Shallan's mother, since Shallan killed her with a shardblade.

Lin and Dreder fought with a knife, and Lin injured Dreder, but Dreder managed to overpower him and held Lin down while Shallan's mother came for Shallan. (side note: are we ever going to get Brightness Davar's first name?)

It's not clear what happened after Shallan killed her mother, but when Lin carried Shallan out of the room there were "corpses", plural, on the floor, and it's hard to believe Lin wouldn't have chased the injured Dreder if he managed to somehow escape the room.

[Govir]

48 minutes ago, Black_Shoshan said:

side note: are we ever going to get Brightness Davar's first name?

There was a post (here or on Reddit, I can’t remember), about how many characters have unnamed mothers. I know Brandon has seen it, but I’m not sure if it was before he finished RoW. That may affect him to try and include more mother’s names.

[+Bliev]

2 hours ago, Black_Shoshan said:

The corpse that didn't bleed was Shallan's mother, since Shallan killed her with a shardblade.

Lin and Dreder fought with a knife, and Lin injured Dreder, but Dreder managed to overpower him and held Lin down while Shallan's mother came for Shallan. (side note: are we ever going to get Brightness Davar's first name?)

It's not clear what happened after Shallan killed her mother, but when Lin carried Shallan out of the room there were "corpses", plural, on the floor, and it's hard to believe Lin wouldn't have chased the injured Dreder if he managed to somehow escape the room.

Yes I know, re: the corpse that didn’t bleed. Sorry that was my point—that this was referring to him.

i can’t imagine that Shallan’s memories in the aftermath one of her most traumatic moments are all that clear. Which is to say that I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t actually dead, that’s all.

 

[*{kara}*]

On 10/3/2020 at 11:30 AM, Govir said:

So random thought I had: what if Restares is Helaran in some fashion (e.g. fully alive or a cognitive shadow after dying)?

This is due to the combination of RoW saying Shallan would know what to do when she found Restares and someone saying they think Helaran could still be alive.

It’s a crackpot theory, I know, but I would be ok with it.

It may be crackpot, but I thought of it too  There is still an element of mystery about Helaran. We don’t know what his affiliation was, and Shallan would definitely “know what to do when she sees him.” Probably freak out. And not kill him. Dreder would be another interesting CS/living person? as we are also unsure of his allegiance, and finding out he is Restares would clear that mystery up. Helaran feels like a better choice to me because he opens up a lot of interesting plotlines, but ultimately a CS does seem unlikely.

[Karger]

26 minutes ago, *{kara}* said:

We don’t know what his affiliation was

Yes we do(Skybreaker) .

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 10/1/2020 at 0:36 PM, Black_Shoshan said:

When Shallan eavesdrops on Mraize in WoR, he says this about Restares:

From this it seems like:

1. Mraize and the ghostbloods knew his identity already then.

2. He is apparently an old human man, and apparently Rosharan.

3. He is probably not a Herald, as Mraize calls Ishar "different", as compared to Restares.

What is less certain:

Was Restares already in Lasting Integrity at this point in time? I would tend to think not, as calling Lasting Integrity "his insignificant city" doesn't seem to fit. Also, Amaram plans to send a spanreed to Restares at the end of WoR. Can someone spanreed a person who is in Shadesmar?

I think the ‘old fool’ is Taravangian.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think the ‘old fool’ is Taravangian.

Mraize speaks of several people.  Taravangian is the old fool.  The reference is in the quote is to that one in Tukar.  The context implies that Mraize does not at the time know who he is(the stormfather says Ishar).

Edited October 12, 2020 by Karger

[Kingsdaughter613]

58 minutes ago, Karger said:

The reference is to that one in Tukar.  The context implies that Mraize does not at the time know who he is(the stormfather says Ishar).

Reread. They’re two different people Mraize is contrasting.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Kingsdaughter613