Kaladin, Leshwi and Venli

[Robot]

Coming from OB I was very convinced Kal and Veli were going to be an item, since it always seemed fitting to me for Kal to get together with a singer and Venli was the most prominent one. When RoW chapters came out I'm sure we all noticed him and Leshwi having a very close relationship though, which made a lot of us pair them together.

 

I wanted to make this thread to hear everyone's opinion on Kaladin and Leshwi/Venli being together and what everyone hopes will come out of this. I should also mention tomorrow is the chapter where Venli meets Leshwi, so things might clear up more then.

[LeftImBorn]

I'm just wondering...

 

Have you been on the the 17th shard discord lately?

[Karger he/him]

Venli is really young.  Leshwi is a no.

[Innovation]

I still maintain that Leshwi and the other Heavenly Ones are planning some kind of trick or trap with  this “honorable duel” thing. Something is off here, and Leshwi is in the center of it. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Innovation

[LuckyJim]

I don't think the Kaladin/Leshwi ship makes sense, she's Fused, a being corrupted by Odium and cycles of rebirth that only desires the eradication of mankind. She and the other Heavenly Ones are nice about it, with the whole "honorable duel" thing, but their motivations are still basically the same.

Venli and Kaladin kinda works, but they haven't actually met, and it seems people are more interested in the idea of Kaladin being romantically paired with a singer than the actual relationship itself.

Edited September 15, 2020 by LuckyJim

[Robot]

Isn't Venli roughly the same age as Kaladin? I believe she's the older of the two sisters

[Harbour he/him]

I think people who want to see Venli-Kaladin are fascinated by the very concept of two people of different world but with similar moral qualities exchanging their experiences.

I personally wonder can Venli-Kaladin work with the way they are, and can they help each other. As more of Kaladin fan (as im of Kaladin's target audience so to speak), i personally wonder can and how can Venli help Kaladin with his problems in a way no human female can. Given she is singer, different race, i hope she can provide different approach to Kaladin's moral views.

I also am exciting of unspoken but potential possibility of Singers and Human uniting against Odium, fixing their broken relations. Kaladin and Venli are the most fitting persons to lead ther respective races towards that ultimate resolution and this concept is also exciting to me.

It always was an exciting concept of two representatives of completely different races to exchange their knowledges, views, traditions, habits, experiences to create something better of it.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Harbour

[Djerf he/him]

I can see interesting things happening in both relationships. With Venli they explore the new world of Radiance together and with Leshwi they learn from each other and grow together, Brandon could easily make both relationships work. 

Obviously Leshwi is a no-go if she is a snake aiming at Kaladin, unless there's a redemption in the cards for her.

The way I see it Brandon can probably make almost any relationship work. The real question is whether Kaladin will really end up in a relationship, not every character needs to be in a relationship and there is really only one main character left to stay single. (That is main by page time) 

[Shardsplinter he/him]

So, Fused retain the physical gender of the singer they take over....and Leshwi is malen this time around. Well, that was an unfortunate development....or is it more reason to ship Kalashwi now????

Wonder if Kal would be as open minded as a certain twinborn friend of ours?

 

[Innovation]

It was revealed in this chapter that Leshwi was interested in Kaladin because she wanted to learn more about the man who had rebuilt the Windrunners from the ground up without much support. There is nothing more to it. 

[Realmatic Shadow]

13 minutes ago, Innovation said:

There is nothing more to it. 

We can't just go assuming that, can we? How ever shall people make theories about this otherwise!

[Harbour he/him]

Its interesting that Brandon mentioned specifically that Venli can understand different languages.

I can imagine the sequence where Leshwi will take Venli to be a translator for her and Kaladin during their potential secret meeting.

That could be the starting point of their adventure.

Bonus point if pro-Odium Fused will ambush the whole meeting, killing Leshwi for betrayal, and Kaladin and Venli will survive and cooperate after that.

[Karger he/him]

19 hours ago, Robot said:

Isn't Venli roughly the same age as Kaladin? I believe she's the older of the two sisters

No she is younger.  Also listeners do mature a bit faster.

10 hours ago, Innovation said:

It was revealed in this chapter that Leshwi was interested in Kaladin because she wanted to learn more about the man who had rebuilt the Windrunners from the ground up without much support. There is nothing more to it. 

I mean shippers aside I do think that Leshwi has a degree of personal interest.  It is almost certainly not an accident that this chapter mentions the fused call themselves "the branded ones" more or less.  Remind you of anyone?

[Gilphon]

On 2020-09-15 at 1:37 AM, Robot said:

Isn't Venli roughly the same age as Kaladin? I believe she's the older of the two sisters

Venli is fourteen, alarmingly. It's because Singers mature faster, so she's not what we would consider fourteen by human standards, but yeah, fourteen.

[Kuram]

On 9/14/2020 at 7:46 PM, Karger said:

Venli is really young.

Venli is about as old as Kaladin, maybe a little older, in terms of biological age.  She's younger in listener years (14), but that works out to ~22.4 human years (it's 10:16 ratio) and Kaladin is 21-22 ish in RoW.

If Singers mature faster then that means the age disparity is fine, since she would be more mature than Kaladin (biologically).  Just because Listeners count age differently doesn't mean she is actually 14 biologically or even in maturity by human standards.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Kuram

[Karger he/him]

31 minutes ago, Kuram said:

Venli is about as old as Kaladin, maybe a little older, in terms of biological age.  She's younger in listener years (14), but that works out to ~22.4 human years (it's 10:16 ratio) and Kaladin is 21-22 ish in RoW.

If Singers mature faster then that means the age disparity is fine, since she would be more mature than Kaladin (biologically).  Just because Listeners count age differently doesn't mean she is actually 14 biologically or even in maturity by human standards.

I completely understand where you are coming from.  However cultural conditioning makes me, and probably Kaladin as well, think that the relationship is inappropriate.

[LuckyJim]

I think if you have to argue technicalities in regards to age, that's a pretty bad sign by itself.

[Kuram]

22 minutes ago, LuckyJim said:

I think if you have to argue technicalities in regards to age, that's a pretty bad sign by itself.

Okay, if you want to ignore technicalities she's 21.  The technicality in this case is how Listeners count their age, which is what makes her "14".  It's like dog years.

[Gilphon]

That's not how ignoring technicalities works and you know it. A year is a year.

[+robardin he/him]

21 hours ago, Karger said:

I mean shippers aside I do think that Leshwi has a degree of personal interest.  It is almost certainly not an accident that this chapter mentions the fused call themselves "the branded ones" more or less.  Remind you of anyone?

Whoa. You know, I totally missed that. Put that way, it's like the voiceover to a telenovela.

HIGHSTORM IN MY GEMHEART

He bore the brands of slavery upon his forehead... She bore the brand of Odium across her very soul.

For thousands upon thousands of years, their peoples have been at war.

Can these two kindred yet opposing spirits meet in the battlefield that is... Love?

(theme music plays)

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by robardin

[Karger he/him]

7 minutes ago, robardin said:

Put that way, it's like the voiceover to a telenovela.

Um... Yay?

[Kuram]

37 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

That's not how ignoring technicalities works and you know it. A year is a year.

You're confusing 'year' and 'age'.

[Zea mays]

5 hours ago, Gilphon said:

Venli is fourteen, alarmingly. It's because Singers mature faster, so she's not what we would consider fourteen by human standards, but yeah, fourteen.

Whoa, did that come from a WOB? Is she the younger sister then? Because if she isn't, the math really doesn't add up: Do we know how old Eshonai was during the OB prologue (when Gavilar tells her his secret plans).

[Gilphon]

19 minutes ago, Zea mays said:

Whoa, did that come from a WOB? Is she the younger sister then? Because if she isn't, the math really doesn't add up: Do we know how old Eshonai was during the OB prologue (when Gavilar tells her his secret plans).

It's a WOB yeah.

We definitely don't know how old Eshonai was in the prologue, because we didn't know this thing about Singers maturing quickly before this (pretty recent) WOB. 

I'm not totally certain because I don't have my books handy at the moment, but I'm pretty sure Eshonai is older than Venli. But probably not that much older; I feel like she's at most ten in the OB prologue. 

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

8 hours ago, Kuram said:

10:16 ratio

HMMM

Interesting ratio...
Dunno what else to say about it without being overly blunt.