Long Game 69: The Politics of the Passions

[Elkanah he/him]

Right, so it's down to six. I really hope you were wrong about there being two eliminators, because this could be it here. 

8 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

I have some info, but I'll hold off on it for a moment, because I want to get some more actions back first. I did not take an action myself, as I was caught last time, and so didn't get an action

I wait with baited breath

8 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

So, assuming that no one in the bottom three lied (which I am looking into, don't worry  ), we have the elim kill narrowed down to the top 4. Kynedath could (probably) only be an elim if there's more than one elim, so we can set them aside until we find the other one (still would really like your action tho)

wait, I didn't think you were full on role blocked by being caught. I thought you were just unable to get a passion.

*checks the rules*

Yeah, you only couldn't use a passion. I don't know if not knowing that makes you more likely to be elim or not.

Yeah, the way it works for me is the first person to claim is cleared to the other of not having submitted the kill. If I had claimed first you would know I'm not lying because I couldn't possibly have known without using teamwork... Unless we're the last two elims  but we're not. 

8 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Elkanah, did anyone else target Pyro?

I don't think so. There was a slight irregularity with my PM... as what I got was narcotics (again) , but I'm working on making the world stop spinning and melting, so I'll let you know when I get there.

 

Here is my list of reads

Elkanah - I read his GM PM

Illwei - went straight after and lynched Vapor. Super cold move if on the same team

Ashbringer - Couldn't have submitted the kill on nights 2,3,and 4

Pyro - Resurrected conversation after we lost TJ and Matrim. Feels like he is genuinely trying to solve the game.

Silberfarben - had a kind of crazy play for an elim by confirming someone good. 

Kynedath - I only picked up a couple tells on day one of trying to be helpful without tying himself to anyone. He is a good player and knows how to stay unaffiliated with teammates. He has been active enough to submit kills. The only reason in the whole game that he wouldn't be an elim is that he was role blocked on night two and It was still possible if slightly unlikely that Experience sent in the kill since no one role blocked him. 

I'd love to hear other's thoughts because I realize my list is upside down to some of yours.

[---]

15 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

Yeah, the way it works for me is the first person to claim is cleared to the other of not having submitted the kill. If I had claimed first you would know I'm not lying because I couldn't possibly have known without using teamwork... 

43 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I don't think so. There was a slight irregularity with my PM... as what I got was narcotics (again) , but I'm working on making the world stop spinning and melting, so I'll let you know when I get there.

Elk moves down on my suspicion list (er, up? idk. more suspicious) then because there's no way to prove his action right now then, is there.

---

My trust reads (I guess?) from most to least...village? trusted? neither of those really feel like they work...least to most killable? no... I feel like I can't rank people on a list because of so many things...I'll try. 

- Silber? 
- Pyro?
- Elk
- Ash
- Kyne

but there's some big gaps here, I guess. Elk, Ash, and Kyne are kind of all on the same level for me. but Elk is higher, but he's still dropped from before. So Ash and Kyne are kind of on the same level, just different stairs?.

I don't trust ash like elk seems to - because they "Couldn't have submitted the kill on nights 2,3,and 4", as, why? I don't think their n2 or 3 actions really clear them at all. His main argument has been that we shouldn't lynch Kyne because Ash roleblocked him on a turn (2) that he should have taken the kill if it was only him and experience left. Then Ash says that he couldn't have submitted the kill because he connected two people who were dead. this kind of makes me suspicious of a Kyne-Ash team? 

I'm losing my...track?...train of thought?...I'm getting off track?

Basically i think something made sense to me, I'll get back when I remember what made sense and why. sorry for this nonsense. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

Then Ash says that he couldn't have submitted the kill because he connected two people who were dead. this kind of makes me suspicious of a Kyne-Ash team?

I mean, that's just a report of what happened. I don't expect that to clear me for the N3 kill. I'm hoping Elk corraborating my protection clears me for N4, though.

Unless the team is Elk-Ash (which I... doubt ).

I'll try to map out possible Elims / possible teams when I'm not in the middle of Chemistry. (An hour or so, at least this afternoon.)

[Elkanah he/him]

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Elk moves down on my suspicion list (er, up? idk. more suspicious) then because there's no way to prove his action right now then, is there.

---

My trust reads (I guess?) from most to least...village? trusted? neither of those really feel like they work...least to most killable? no... I feel like I can't rank people on a list because of so many things...I'll try. 

- Silber? 
- Pyro?
- Elk
- Ash
- Kyne

but there's some big gaps here, I guess. Elk, Ash, and Kyne are kind of all on the same level for me. but Elk is higher, but he's still dropped from before. So Ash and Kyne are kind of on the same level, just different stairs?.

I don't trust ash like elk seems to - because they "Couldn't have submitted the kill on nights 2,3,and 4", as, why? I don't think their n2 or 3 actions really clear them at all. His main argument has been that we shouldn't lynch Kyne because Ash roleblocked him on a turn (2) that he should have taken the kill if it was only him and experience left. Then Ash says that he couldn't have submitted the kill because he connected two people who were dead. this kind of makes me suspicious of a Kyne-Ash team? 

I'm losing my...track?...train of thought?...I'm getting off track?

Basically i think something made sense to me, I'll get back when I remember what made sense and why. sorry for this nonsense. 

This is very interesting. I guess what I should have said is Ashbringer has claims that preclude him submitting the kill on nights 2, 3, and 4.

Why do you trust Silber so much? I have him above Kynedath, but we have zero proof that he is good. At very best he is untested. 

I do understand trusting Pyro over me for the minute. 

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

I mean, that's just a report of what happened. I don't expect that to clear me for the N3 kill. I'm hoping Elk corraborating my protection clears me for N4, though.

Unless the team is Elk-Ash (which I... doubt ).

I'll try to map out possible Elims / possible teams when I'm not in the middle of Chemistry. (An hour or so, at least this afternoon.)

Right, I could have worded that one a little better. 

"which you doubt" XD If you are good, then you are good and we aren't elims together. If you are bad then you know I'm good and we aren't elims together. This works in reverse and I can confidently say we are not on an elim team together this game and for now I am willing to believe you are also village.

This is exciting to me and I look forward to it. I am most interested in your thoughts on Lord Silberfarben as I believe you will come to the same conclusion that illwei and Pyro are probably village.

[---]

42 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

Why do you trust Silber so much?

I just- I really don't think that claiming sart as village is something that he would do. Honestly I don't know Silber that well, but I couldn't see him doing something like that when I was an elim with him. of course, there wasn't alignment scanners in that game so that's not terribly accurate.

I mean, as I said, I'm having trouble ranking people because I feel like I agree with everybody on at least something, but I also can see a scenario in which everyone is an elim, though some of them are kind of a bit too outrageous :P.

42 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I do understand trusting Pyro over me for the minute. 

interesting

Edited September 11, 2020 by Illwei

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

2 hours ago, Elkanah said:

Yeah, you only couldn't use a passion.

...Which is a RB, because I'm village, and have no actions other than passions? This looks REALLY elimmy. Why else would you point out that it's not a RB? Elkanah, for the moment.

11 hours ago, Illwei said:

...isnt min't dead?

If they are, they aren't dead on the player list.

@Zillah

[Ashbringer he/him]

Okay, I have some time.

There's currently six of us left. Illwei, Kynedath, Silber, Elkanah, Pyro, Ash. Of that group, one must be an Elim, possibly two. (I'm not going to count for three because we'd essentially be dead anyway.)

If there's ONE ELIM REMAINING:

• It can't be me. The Elim killed this night, and Elkanah confirmed that I visited Pyro and not Sart. If I'm the only Elim remaining Elkanah has no reason to cover for me. (Plus, I'm pretty sure I'm not an Elim.)
• It probably can't be Kynedath, thanks to my roleblock on D2. Technically Experience could have done the kill, but I feel like he wouldn't have.
• It COULD be Illwei, Elkanah, Silber, or Pyro.
  • Illwei claimed Survival onto Lotus N3 and Survival again onto Kynedath on N4. If anyone can corroborate that, we can clear Illwei of being the last Elim, or if anyone has an action they used on Illwei that wasn't redirected, that could prove we have a liar.
  • Elkanah claimed Narcotics into ??? N3 and Narcotics into Teamwork on Pyro N4. If anyone (besides me) visited Pyro last night, Elkanah could be our Elim. @Elkanah, what did your Narcotics do N3?
  • Pyro claimed passionless due to being Caught by illegal activity. Unprovable, and you still could have used the Elim kill. N3 he claimed Survival onto Lotus - again if anyone can confirm or deny, that would be great. Has an alleged secret.
  • Silber claimed... nothing? @Lord_Silberfarben Lord_Silberfarben. You've reacted to votes before. I want your actions for N3 and N4.
• Kynedath claimed nothing. While you're clear in this sector, I still want an action from you @Kynedath.

 

Mapping out possible 2-Elim teams is more difficult. I want more info before that happens.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

11 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Unprovable

Did anyone counterclaim me getting caught? If they did, since only one person was caught in the writeup, I would be caught in a lie. So I'd say this is probably true.

Here's my full action timeline:

D1:Politicking

N1:Connection, forgot to use

D2:Politicking

N2:Planning, message to TJ. Roleblocked, not by his death, but by something else. I checked.

D3:Illegal, since I had planning and could maximize my chances of hitting something strong without having to up the chances of getting caught.

N3: Got caught, Coersion, and Survival. Used Survival after trying to bait a RB or kill in-thread

D4: Passionless due to being caught

N4: Passionless. Secret thing happened.

[Ashbringer he/him]

You know, I missed that it said someone was caught in the writeup. So you're good on that front, I don't think anyone counterclaimed.

(I think how the rules work you still could have executed the kill, but who knows.)

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

34 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

...Which is a RB, because I'm village, and have no actions other than passions? This looks REALLY elimmy. Why else would you point out that it's not a RB? Elkanah, for the moment.

@Ashbringer what do you think of this?

[Elkanah he/him]

EDIT for clarity

2 hours ago, Illwei said:

Elk moves down on my suspicion list (er, up? idk. more suspicious) then because there's no way to prove his action right now then, is there.

---

My trust reads (I guess?) from most to least...village? trusted? neither of those really feel like they work...least to most killable? no... I feel like I can't rank people on a list because of so many things...I'll try. 

- Silber? 
- Pyro?
- Elk
- Ash
- Kyne

but there's some big gaps here, I guess. Elk, Ash, and Kyne are kind of all on the same level for me. but Elk is higher, but he's still dropped from before. So Ash and Kyne are kind of on the same level, just different stairs?.

I don't trust ash like elk seems to - because they "Couldn't have submitted the kill on nights 2,3,and 4", as, why? I don't think their n2 or 3 actions really clear them at all. His main argument has been that we shouldn't lynch Kyne because Ash roleblocked him on a turn (2) that he should have taken the kill if it was only him and experience left. Then Ash says that he couldn't have submitted the kill because he connected two people who were dead. this kind of makes me suspicious of a Kyne-Ash team? 

I'm losing my...track?...train of thought?...I'm getting off track?

Basically i think something made sense to me, I'll get back when I remember what made sense and why. sorry for this nonsense. 

END to EDIT

That is fair. He made a bold move and I can respect that.

Given that he is your highest suspect, would you consider voting Kynedath? 

Also an interesting note. It is likely that tonight is the last night of the game. we lose one player so we're down to five. one player is killed so we are down to four. One player is lynched so we are down to three. hmm. I was going to suggest that getting caught has no effect as the game will be decided if not by today's lynch, then certainly by tomorrow's, but a well placed role block could be the difference tomorrow night if we mislynch today and tomorrow

That is fair. He made a bold move and I can respect that.

Given that he is your highest suspect, would you consider voting Kynedath? 

Also an interesting note. It is likely that tonight is the last night of the game. we lose one player so we're down to five. one player is killed so we are down to four. One player is lynched so we are down to three. hmm. I was going to suggest that getting caught has no effect as the game will be decided if not by today's lynch, then certainly by tomorrow's, but a well placed role block could be the difference tomorrow night if we mislynch today and tomorrow. Soo, maybe illegal stuff isn't the best for tonight.

 

Sorry I had to walk away for a bit so I have more to respond to.

57 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

...Which is a RB, because I'm village, and have no actions other than passions? This looks REALLY elimmy. Why else would you point out that it's not a RB? Elkanah, for the moment.

If they are, they aren't dead on the player list.

@Zillah

My point is, it doesn't prove you didn't submit an elim kill.

Is your argument here that you not presenting that information makes you less likely to be an eliminator? or that if you had presented this information it would have made you more likely to be an eliminator?

I can confirm that Mint was unfortunately lynched last cycle and she was village.

47 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Okay, I have some time.

There's currently six of us left. Illwei, Kynedath, Silber, Elkanah, Pyro, Ash. Of that group, one must be an Elim, possibly two. (I'm not going to count for three because we'd essentially be dead anyway.)

If there's ONE ELIM REMAINING:

• It can't be me. The Elim killed this night, and Elkanah confirmed that I visited Pyro and not Sart. If I'm the only Elim remaining Elkanah has no reason to cover for me. (Plus, I'm pretty sure I'm not an Elim.)
• It probably can't be Kynedath, thanks to my roleblock on D2. Technically Experience could have done the kill, but I feel like he wouldn't have.
• It COULD be Illwei, Elkanah, Silber, or Pyro.
  • Illwei claimed Survival onto Lotus N3 and Survival again onto Kynedath on N4. If anyone can corroborate that, we can clear Illwei of being the last Elim, or if anyone has an action they used on Illwei that wasn't redirected, that could prove we have a liar.
  • Elkanah claimed Narcotics into ??? N3 and Narcotics into Teamwork on Pyro N4. If anyone (besides me) visited Pyro last night, Elkanah could be our Elim. @Elkanah, what did your Narcotics do N3?
  • Pyro claimed passionless due to being Caught by illegal activity. Unprovable, and you still could have used the Elim kill. N3 he claimed Survival onto Lotus - again if anyone can confirm or deny, that would be great. Has an alleged secret.
  • Silber claimed... nothing? @Lord_Silberfarben Lord_Silberfarben. You've reacted to votes before. I want your actions for N3 and N4.
• Kynedath claimed nothing. While you're clear in this sector, I still want an action from you @Kynedath.

 

Mapping out possible 2-Elim teams is more difficult, I want more info before that happens.

I agree, you can't be the only elim, hence you are blue.

I maintain Kynedath as my best suspect as I find it easier to believe Experience submitted a kill than that there are four elims.

I guess I've already given my reasons for the rest of these. I don't think Pyro is bad, but It's not provable by the actions he's taken.

On Night three I got connection and have a PM with Kynedath.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Elkanah

[Ashbringer he/him]

2 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

That is fair. He made a bold move and I can respect that.

Given that he is your highest suspect, would you consider voting Kynedath? 

Also an interesting note. It is likely that tonight is the last night of the game. we lose one player so we're down to five. one player is killed so we are down to four. One player is lynched so we are down to three. hmm. I was going to suggest that getting caught has no effect as the game will be decided if not by today's lynch, then certainly by tomorrow's, but a well placed role block could be the difference tomorrow night if we mislynch today and tomorrow

That is fair. He made a bold move and I can respect that.

Given that he is your highest suspect, would you consider voting Kynedath? 

Also an interesting note. It is likely that tonight is the last night of the game. we lose one player so we're down to five. one player is killed so we are down to four. One player is lynched so we are down to three. hmm. I was going to suggest that getting caught has no effect as the game will be decided if not by today's lynch, then certainly by tomorrow's, but a well placed role block could be the difference tomorrow night if we mislynch today and tomorrow. Soo, maybe illegal stuff isn't the best for tonight.

This... I don't understand. I'm guessing ninja'd but I can't tell whether it's me or Pyro. Who's "He"?

7 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

On Night three I got connection and have a PM with Kynedath.

Kynedath, can you confirm or deny?

4 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

@Ashbringer what do you think of this?

Essentially what Elkanah said: I believe that you did get caught, but whether you still used Elim kills I'm not sure of. And it does seem like an odd reason to vote.

I can see Elkanah's focus on RB vs Passion Usage being odd from Village!Pyro's perspective, but I'm trying to be as neutral as possible in this.

[Elkanah he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

This... I don't understand. I'm guessing ninja'd but I can't tell whether it's me or Pyro. Who's "He"?

Sorry this was a response to illwei. I'll edit in a quote

"He" is Kynedath

15 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Did anyone counterclaim me getting caught? If they did, since only one person was caught in the writeup, I would be caught in a lie. So I'd say this is probably true.

Here's my full action timeline:

D1:Politicking

N1:Connection, forgot to use

D2:Politicking

N2:Planning, message to TJ. Roleblocked, not by his death, but by something else. I checked.

D3:Illegal, since I had planning and could maximize my chances of hitting something strong without having to up the chances of getting caught.

N3: Got caught, Coersion, and Survival. Used Survival after trying to bait a RB or kill in-thread

D4: Passionless due to being caught

N4: Passionless. Secret thing happened.

Cool here is mine

D1: Illegal

N1: Coercion, but role blocked by TJ

D2: Safety

N2: Connection with TJ (he died but Ashbringer put me in touch with Matrim)

D3: Illegal

N3: Narcotics - Connection to Kynedath

D4: Illegal

N4: Narcotics - Teamwork Pyro (I'm pretty sure no one else targeted him. Still just waiting for some clarity there). 

I just realized why Pyro is suspicious of me. The things are clicking and I promise it's not what you think, Pyro.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

1 minute ago, Elkanah said:

I just realized why Pyro is suspicious of me. The things are clicking and I promise it's not what you think, Pyro

What do you think I think?

[Ashbringer he/him]

5 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

N2: Connection with TJ (he died but Ashbringer put me in touch with Matrim)

That was Illwei, not me.

[Elkanah he/him]

5 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

What do you think I think?

I realized you had a secret thing happen... and since I didn't see who did the secret thing, I couldn't have targeted you with teamwork... Hmm. I'd vote for me too. 

This is why I'm waiting for the world to stop spinning. I talked with the IM, and it looks like one thing happened. I just wanted to wait for Zillah to respond to make sure. Don't tell us what the secret thing is yet. I'll see if I have that information rattling around in my brain. I may remember as I sober up.

5 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

That was Illwei, not me.

Oops sorry. 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Hah, I see the ghosts of the past have joined us! Hopefully we're doing well!

[Elkanah he/him]

It must be very exciting for so many of you to join us.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

21 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I realized you had a secret thing happen... and since I didn't see who did the secret thing, I couldn't have targeted you with teamwork... Hmm. I'd vote for me too. 

Unless Ash was lying about protecting me, and has now been waiting for me to call you out, a distinct possibility.

Or it could be a GM mistake.

But yeah, I'm suspicious of you for other reasons too, like how you've maintained 3 elims throughout the entire game, or how you have changed your opinions fairly easily when I've challenged you on them.

Also, @Ashbringer, if you're lying about protecting me, please be honest.

EDIT: Flame On!

Edited September 11, 2020 by The Young Pyromancer

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

@Ashbringer, did you lie? Just confirming something.

[Ashbringer he/him]

Nope. I did protect you.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Okay. So, should I hold off revealing things until we get everyone's actions back, or should I just spill the beans?

[Ashbringer he/him]

PROBLEM:

Zillah just answered my PM question.

Elims can execute the kill and use a Passion during the same turn.

...

Rust and Ruin.

Hold it for now, Pyro. This just got a whole lot more difficult.

[---]

30 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Okay. So, should I hold off revealing things until we get everyone's actions back, or should I just spill the beans?

I think you should hold off until at least Elk comes back with his final answer on if ash was the only one at Pyro's house, and seeing as Zillah just got back to Ash, she probably will get/has gotten back to Elk.

EDIT: well, um, That makes things more difficult...

Edited September 12, 2020 by Illwei

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

In that case, yeah, one more elim makes sense.

Ugghh.

@Elkanah, did you clear stuff up yet? Because I think, given that there's probably only one elim, that we could definitely use your help RN.