Random Mythwalker Thoughts

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Definitely lower quality than the published books, but not as bad as it seemed people said. I'd be curious to see what exactly happened at the end, but Peter's predictions in the final annotation all make sense to me. His comparison of Hess to Preservation is interesting. I didn't catch any similarities, but Preservation as the bad guy and Ruin as the "good" (or less bad) guy could be cool.

Now, for some thoughts about what is written (not in any particular order or grouping):

• As Peter said many times in the annotations, there weren't a whole lot of downsides to the power, as long as it wasn't too diluted. I do actually think a system like it could be interesting to see, but it would need a lot more limitations. The main character being able to just instantly pick up on any skills needed doesn't make for an interesting challenge.
• I kept misreading the doubled consonants as single consonants (with the exception of Vvenna, because I was used to Vivenna from Warbreaker already). The fact that Mistborn has "koloss" probably doesn't help lol.
• Prisoner-to-romantic-interest always feels icky to me. While it didn't get to a romance stage, I have little doubt that it was going to become one. So I'm glad I didn't have to read that. Also, Devin making a joke about her being too tall to rape was... no.
  • Sanderson's romances in generally usually aren't amazing to me, but I'm so glad he's at least improved, and even has a couple I like in his more recent books. Aether is actually the main one where I really hated some scenes (I didn't mind the relationship in the book, but that first scene was just weird), but as I mentioned, the whole trope this book's romance followed is one I hate.
• Siri's plot is I guess basically lifted and moved to Warbreaker without too many changes, the obvious exception being that she's not in disguise in Warbreaker.
• I accidentally clicked Chapter 22 first, so I got spoiled that Hime dies. But that's not exactly a shock. I think I probably would've expected him to die at some point even without it (the only real way for his Oath to end was either for him to break it or him to die due to it). And the King's betrayal was pretty expected as well.
• Peter complained about Vvenna's character in the annotations (or at least I think I remember him doing so). I agree that Vivenna in Warbreaker was better, but I really didn't mind Vvenna much, even at the more boring parts. Felt kinda necessary for her arc, so I just thought "well, presumably she'll start to understand eventually". I do agree that I liked Warbreaker Vivenna more.
• Took way too long to reveal the powers imo. It was... kinda obvious, and I assume intentionally so.
• I'm surprised we never got any explanation or rumors of what the Mythwalker actually was. Perhaps he was trying to do something similar to what he'd later do in Aether,

Spoiler

where the priests have an open secret amongst themselves of some terrible thing and they've somehow convinced the entire country to just not question why there's no details?

• Sanderson of course got in his obligatory "maladroitly"s. I STILL have yet to hear the word used outside a Sanderson work, as far as I can remember.
• Was Siri's bethrothed (whose name escapes me) intended to be Dalinar but dead the whole book? I definitely got Dalinar vibes off him (or well, hornier Dalinar vibes). I see that's a sort of trope Sanderson really likes (which isn't surprising, since iirc wasn't he from Sanderson's very first novel he wrote as a teen, before even White Sand?)
• I did get kinda bored for most of the book, and honestly as I got towards the last chapters I figured I wouldn't mind the lack of an ending, but the final written chapters did make me want more. Although, Warbreaker offers a likely end to Siri's plot, and I feel like I can predict a potential end for the rest (assuming Sanderson didn't have some crazy twists planned).
• In addition to the things that were transplanted to published books, a few things felt like possible inspiration for things in Aether as well (though most are different enough that they're probably just based on similar ideas than actually based on Mythwalker):
  Spoiler

  • Bloodline-based (or in Aether's case, something thought to be bloodline-based) magic that can be granted to anyone (although the actual powers aren't similar at all)
  • Confused identity royal person plot, and someone discovering and blackmailing the new royal
  • The priests seemingly not actually explaining the religion, potentially as a way to hide some dirty secrets
  • Smoke people (though they seem to be EXTREMELY different beyond the very very most basic idea
  • Amberite, of course, although multicolored amberite wasn't really a thing in Aether

   

So far, I'd say Way of Kings Prime is the best of his unpublished works, followed by Aether, with Mythwalker in third. Although I haven't actually gotten to reading White Sand Prose yet, and haven't gotten my hands on Mistborn Prime or Final Empire Prime (which I've heard he occasionally will email out?), and of course have not read Dragonsteel Prime. Aether is still probably my favorite though, even if I couldn't tell you why.

And as usual for my posts, I'm tired and typing on a phone, so apologies for typos or weird phrasings.

Edited August 4, 2020 by beewall

[Karger he/him]

A fair analysis. 

26 minutes ago, beewall said:

Prisoner-to-romantic-interest always feels icky to me. While it didn't get to a romance stage, I have little doubt that it was going to become one. So I'm glad I didn't have to read that. Also, Devin making a joke about her being too tall to rape was... no.

I agree but presumably by the time things got to that stage V would no longer be a prisoner.  Still that joke was no.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

10 minutes ago, Karger said:

I agree but presumably by the time things got to that stage V would no longer be a prisoner.

Yeah I'm sure (she seemed to be pretty much past prisoner status by the end of the written chapters), but it still leaves a weird taste in my mouth. But you're right that at least she wouldn't still be a prisoner at that point, it would've been much worse if she had.

12 minutes ago, Karger said:

Still that joke was no.

Yeah. Aether had an even worse thing along those lines imo, he... does not seem to have had a proper grasp on this topic at the time. I am extremely glad he seems to have realized his books had problems in that department, and I don't think any of his published books have those issues any more, at least that I can think of.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

12 minutes ago, beewall said:

Aether had an even worse thing along those lines imo,

Which part are you referring to?

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 minute ago, Eternal Khol said:

Which part are you referring to?

Spoiler

The resolution of the brides plot. Doesn't one of them get "resolved" by Darro and his friends getting her drunk in order to have sex with her and make her unavailable for marriage or something?

 

[Eternal Khol he/him]

Omg, yeah. 
i totally forgot about that...

They got her drunk and she slept with a guy while two others watched, so they could testify to the fact and shed be unavailable

[Asrael he/him]

Anyone else notice, and then hate how often people "raised an eyebrow" in this story?

Edited August 6, 2020 by Asrael

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 minute ago, Asrael said:

Anyone else notice, and then hate how often people "raised an eyebrow" in this story?

I didn't notice it myself, but that's a thing I've seen brought up in regards to Brandon's writing pretty often, so doesn't surprise me if an early draft had it even worse.

[Asrael he/him]

6 minutes ago, beewall said:

I didn't notice it myself, but that's a thing I've seen brought up in regards to Brandon's writing pretty often, so doesn't surprise me if an early draft had it even worse.

I think at one point its used several times in a single paragraph.

I couldn't help imagining their eyebrows rising up into the air off their heads because the two people just couldn't have any more forehead left

Edited August 6, 2020 by Asrael

[Weltall]

On the Amberite thing, I find myself wondering if the term showed up in Mistborn Prime or Final Empire Prime (or possibly even Dragonsteel Prime) since Brandon would go on to use the word in Aether of Night and in his attempt to cannibalize it as a pre-Shattering magic in Liar of Partinel, so it's clearly a word he decided he liked and wanted to try and fit into the Cosmere even if it's changed its nature over time.

Unrelated note: I liked Devin's mother more than I ever liked him, despite how briefly she's onscreen. I feel like a little of her went into Hesina.

On 8/3/2020 at 6:18 PM, beewall said:

As Peter said many times in the annotations, there weren't a whole lot of downsides to the power, as long as it wasn't too diluted. I do actually think a system like it could be interesting to see, but it would need a lot more limitations. The main character being able to just instantly pick up on any skills needed doesn't make for an interesting challenge.

Yeah, it's an odd example of a magic system where there are limitations intrinsic to the system but the situation in the book is such an edge case that Devin blows right past them and is straight-up overpowered as a result. Brandon's 'Second Law' was formulated after Mythwalker and might well have been partially in response to this problem. It could be interesting and I think Brandon could totally pull it off nowadays if he wanted to, but it just didn't work in this instance.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

36 minutes ago, Weltall said:

I find myself wondering if the term showed up in Mistborn Prime

its not in Mistborn Prime or Dragonsteel prime. 

im not sure about Final empire prime though.

 

 

4 hours ago, Asrael said:

Anyone else notice, and then hate how often people "raised an eyebrow" in this story?

also the word "shrugged" 

it get annoying lol

Edited August 6, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[LewsTherinTelescope]

38 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Yeah, it's an odd example of a magic system where there are limitations intrinsic to the system but the situation in the book is such an edge case that Devin blows right past them and is straight-up overpowered as a result.

Pretty much. It *could* be cool to have a system with a sort of shared power pool, basically a way of enforcing the choice between quality and quantity of power. Thing is, when quantity gets too low, quality gets absurd.

41 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Unrelated note: I liked Devin's mother more than I ever liked him, despite how briefly she's onscreen. I feel like a little of her went into Hesina.

Yeah, she seems a cool enough person, from the little we see of her.

[Weltall]

19 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

its not in Mistborn Prime or Dragonsteel prime.

If you're feeling warm right now, know that it is my burning envy being transmitted telepathically through the internet in violation of all laws of physics.

13 minutes ago, beewall said:

Thing is, when quantity gets too low, quality gets absurd.

Yeah, I think the way you'd need to avoid that pitfall is to either come up with powers that won't be absurd if concentrated, come up with costs/limitations that also get enhanced to balance things out or some social mechanism in place to discourage concentrating power too narrowly... or some mix of all of these.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Weltall said:

Yeah, I think the way you'd need to avoid that pitfall is to either come up with powers that won't be absurd if concentrated, come up with costs/limitations that also get enhanced to balance things out or some social mechanism in place to discourage concentrating power too narrowly... or some mix of all of these.

He could also just not kill off every single other person with it lol. Then it would still be somewhat diluted.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

I really wish Brandon had kept the Zquiz in the novel or at least transplanted them to a different novel. They were really interesting concept to read about(even though it was only a few paragraphs) its been a while since i read Mythwalker, but i think Brandons original plans for Ix was for him to be a Zquiz that had decided to be human

i still think he can still find a home for them-with a little tweaking. like peter says, they are reminiscent of spren.(maybe he could put them in one of his random cosmere novellas or something?)

if you didnt read that part 

Spoiler

“Devin paused suddenly, his hand reaching for a bright round quall hanging a short distance away. There, sitting in front of his hand on a large branch, was an amazing sight. A zquiz. Right there, in front of him. Devin regarded it with a dropped jaw.

He’d seen zquiz before, of course. Everyone had. The creatures were extremely hard to catch, but they were by no means rare. No, the oddity here was how unconcerned the zquiz seemed with Devin’s own presence. He was close enough that he could almost touch it.

The creature was about the size of a man’s fist, and its four smooth legs gripped the branch with their prehensile fingers. Its blue body was smooth, almost glassy, and its foot-long tail slumped off the side of the branch and hung below it. Its dominant feature, however, were its eyes. They were enormous, bulbous things that were at least half the size of the zquiz’s head. They stared ahead unblinkingly, transfixed by the quall hanging above it.

Every boy dreamed of catching a zquiz and training it to become something magical and grand. Devin only knew three boys who had actually ever managed to catch one of the creatures, and none of their ‘training’ had worked. Of course, a boy could still dream. Few zquiz lived to maturity. But, if they did. . . .

The zquiz before him began to shake and vibrate. Devin held absolutely still, watching with awed eyes. He had heard so many stories about zquiz transformations, but he had never thought he would see one himself. The small creature continued to shake violently, its skin pulsing and rippling. The creatures arms and tail suddenly pulled into its body and became one squirming mass. Its shape seemed to lose form.

Then, with a final undulation, the zquiz’s body snapped into shape and stopped moving. There, sitting on the branch before Devin, was a perfect imitation of a quall. There was only one difference — this quall was blue instead of pink. The zquiz had reached maturity.

Devin reached out hesitantly, poking the zquiz. It looked and felt like a quall in every way — except for the color, of course. Zquiz never changed color.”

 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Weltall]

The zquiz also reminds me a bit of Aether of Night, where something similar is the primary power of the Ferrous aether. I could see the realmatics of both working similarly enough that if Brandon wants to find a home for the former and also keeps the latter more or less unchanged, the Aether rewrite could be a place the zquiz would fit.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Weltall

[LewsTherinTelescope]

9 minutes ago, Weltall said:

The zquiz also reminds me a bit of Aether of Night, where something similar is the primary power of the Ferrous aether. I could see the realmatics of both working similarly enough that if Brandon wants to find a home for the former and also keeps the latter more or less unchanged, the Aether rewrite could be a place the zquiz would fit.

Reminds me, I had a thought at some point that the Ferrous might be one of the reasons he's really wanted to find a place for Aethers. I could totally see them being useful. Might try and brainstorm some uses and make a post in the Aether forum later.

A way zquiz could fit into Aether:

Spoiler

I could see the zquiz being some sort of thing where either an animal bonds an Aether, or a group of animals drink or eat from a Source (whatever the Ferrous Source looks like, since iirc we don't even know what a Ferrous Aether looks like, much less the Source), and it affects them really weirdly.

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by beewall

[Honorless he/him]

The cleancrop/saltcrop bit reminded me of Trunelife/Fainlife from Liar of Partinel.

The Kkoloss can only eat cleancrop, the skaa can only eat saltcrop, the Eruntu can eat both.

And, oh god, the can't eat bruised fruit bit made me so mad.

Don't even get me started on "the Games". Ugh. Conscription of little boys to participate in life and death battles like human chess. But as far as not glorifying war goes, I like this representation the best. The boys do want go to the Games and don't really understand what it actually is, they look at is as adventure, renown, manhood.

The Kkoloss are the Nobles in this book, which can be a bit disorienting at first. Whatever, I wanted to sicc Kelsier on 'em.

The obedience based society also reminded me of Aether of Night.

It's really strange, it's like a fusion of Warbreaker and Mistborn, but completely different. I actually wouldn't mind a polished version of this novel. I like it? I know most people didn't.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Honorless

[LewsTherinTelescope]

9 minutes ago, Honorless said:

The cleancrop/saltcrop bit reminded me of Trunelife/Fainlife from Liar of Partinel.

I didn't even think of this, but now that you say it, you're right.

9 minutes ago, Honorless said:

And "the Games". Ugh.

I wanted to sicc Kelsier on 'em.

Yeah their society could use a good slave rebellion about now.

11 minutes ago, Honorless said:

The obedience based society also reminded me of Aether of Night.

I don't actually remember that being in Aether (granted, my memory of it's kinda fuzzy). I'm already planning to keep an eye out for similarities between it and the other unpublished works when I reread it soon, so this is another thing for me to watch for.

12 minutes ago, Honorless said:

It's really strange, it's like a fusion of Warbreaker and Mistborn, but completely different.

Yeah lol. You see things like Siri and Vvenna and go "oh yeah Warbreaker", then things like Skaa and go "oh yeah Mistborn".... and then things like Kkoloss and go "why do these even share a name" lol.

14 minutes ago, Honorless said:

I actually wouldn't mind a polished version of this novel.

Same. Obviously things like Siri and the Emperor would have to be replaced, and things like the Skaa and Kkoloss would have to be renamed, but there's enough left of the world to do some cool things. Probably some of the plot could even be kept, though I could see arguments that he's already done something too similar in Mistborn.

16 minutes ago, Honorless said:

I like it? I know most people didn't.

I didn't really like the book much until the final few chapters, but I don't think that's something unsolvable, and a polished version of it could actually be good.

[Weltall]

11 hours ago, Honorless said:

The cleancrop/saltcrop bit reminded me of Trunelife/Fainlife from Liar of Partinel.

Huh, hadn't even thought of that one. Yeah, there's a bit of similarity there. I doubt it's intentional because Brandon wrote Dragonsteel Prime first and Liar after Mythwalker, but it's an interesting parallel. The impression I get from WoBs and the released chapters is that fainlife is less of a pervasive ecological threat in Dragonsteel Prime but that it's still a factor and part of why he wanted to write Liar was to show off how dangerous it used to be.

And now you've got me wondering about fainlife again and questions we're not gonna have answers to for a long time...

Quote

I wanted to sicc Kelsier on 'em.

Oh yes, Kelsier would have so much fun punching people in the face here... for that matter he'd probably enjoy himself on most of the worlds we've seen. So many gods to punch and he's got all the time in the world in which to do it.

Quote

The obedience based society also reminded me of Aether of Night.

I'm not recalling any strong parallels there. The sorting of role by birth order among the Aedin comes to mind but that's about it and there are enough cultures making up the Imperium that it's a pretty diverse society on the whole. Though the way family hierarchy determines strength of one's Kkell power kind of puts me in mind of Dominion.

11 hours ago, beewall said:

Yeah lol. You see things like Siri and Vvenna and go "oh yeah Warbreaker", then things like Skaa and go "oh yeah Mistborn".... and then things like Kkoloss and go "why do these even share a name" lol.

My guess is Brandon realized while writing Mistborn TFE that he needed a name for his big blue berserkers and wouldn't you know it, he had one lying around in a book he was never going to finish and had already cannibalized from so... yoink!

Another fun one is Devin making friends through cooking, which came from Dragonsteel but then got transplanted to Kaladin and Rock in Stormlight Archive. Once we get access to all the 'Sanderson Curiosities' as he seems to be naming them, it's gonna be a lot of fun going through and tracking where elements got started and how they changed over time before ending up in a published work. Sounds like Brandon intends to release almost all of them eventually, though Liar of Partinel is probably off the table.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Weltall

[Criggleworth]

I can see another version of the Sserin powers working on some random cosmere world. My thoughts would be to remove the oath portion, weaken the powers, and remove the concentration/dispersion aspect.

Essentially, I think a workable version would have powers similar to the cognitive and spiritual powers of allomancy, feruchemy, and the Aviars and work via inheritance. My limitation would be that it is inherited via the mother. In the real world, mitochondrial DNA is handed down via a maternal line while DNA has a ton of junk inserted from historical viruses and bacteria.

An example would be a family line who can shift heat like a feruchemist. But, that shifting is still done by the body's heat, so push out too much heat and you go into hypothermia. 

Just a thought experiment for getting a workable(ish) version on a minor Shardworld.

I also would not be opposed to another non human character who repeatedly insists that it is human. What can I say, that amused me greatly.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

4 hours ago, Criggleworth said:

I also would not be opposed to another non human character who repeatedly insists that it is human.

I would love the same concept in The Stormlight Archive.

a piece of Living Night that has gained sentience, and wants tries to be human

 

it could work.

Midnight Essence can be extracted and used independently of Re Shephir.

it imitates what it see’s around it(make it humans)

and far as we know, the midnight essence creations dont lose mass unless hurt.

maybe stick some breath in it or do some other tweaks, and you have a new Ix

 

dvoraen

In the Midnight Essence vision Dalinar has in The Way of Kings, the female Radiant was wondering "who released it". Shouldn't the Radiants have known then that it was Re-Shephir that was the general source of Midnight Essence?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but Midnight Essence can be extracted and used independently.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 22, 2018)

 

 

 

 

BeskarKomrk

It’s fairly heavily implied in the Stormlight books that there’s some sort of correspondence between the Chasmfiends and the Thunderclasts. They’re described very similarly and... I was wondering if there’s a similar sort of correspondence, possibly, between the Whitespines and the Midnight Essences?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh... yes, yes. More tenuous, but yes.

BeskarKomrk

But kind of similar?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. The Midnight Essence generally imitates what it sees around it.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017) Edited August 12, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Honorless he/him]

Why'd you have to remind me of Human the Koloss, that bit made me so sad.

Though Ix is more like the Shenti from Aether of Night 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Honorless

[Weltall]

On 8/15/2020 at 5:51 AM, Honorless said:

Why'd you have to remind me of Human the Koloss, that bit made me so sad.

You know Human survived, right?

[Honorless he/him]

7 hours ago, Weltall said:

You know Human survived, right?

That seemed to have been the implication at the end of HoA, but I was referring to his story from being Vershad to trying to remember he was human