Elantrians powering up for combat against users of other arcane arts

[+Oltux72]

@Hoidonalsium raised the question whether Elantrians would turn themselves into Radiants for combat using Aonic equipment. I suppose the answer is negative. AonDor is extremely flexible and powerful. Several users have noticed that it is slower to draw. That can be fixed by drawing Aons onto your equipment. There is, however, a second flaw of AonDor. In computer terms the UI is horrible. Some Aons have a basic UI, but the rest is basically CLI. A Mistborn basically only has to think to use steel or iron. The same seems to be true for users of Cohesion. Stormlight can heal you even if you are unconcious. So you have to use some more engineering and adapt your tactics.

Let's talk about offence - Daa and Sheo

Drawing it into the air is just horrible. You want something for aiming. You would basically build an Aonic ray gun.
Sheo goes onto your bladed weapons.

Defense - Dao and Edo

You don't want to get into melee combat against somebody using pewter or wearing Shard Plate, if you can help it. Exactly replicating Plate is a fall back option. I propose using Aon Dao on armor but using Aon Edo for your main defense in the manner of a SF energy shield.

Support - Ene and Ien

Aon Ene goes onto your helmet. Ien onto your undergarments and a ring or bracer. Here we see a weakness of AonDor. If you can draw the right modifiers it is probably better than Progression. But this is hard to do if your are screaming in pain because somebody crushed one of your arms. You can try to compensate with specialised beacers on your limbs, but this has limits.

 

Yet there is no good Aonic replacement for tin, pewter and electrum. Hence Elantrians would depend on ranged weapons and defenses.

[StanLemon]

I'm sure there is a way to use AonDor to duplicate pretty much every magic system. The issue as you raised is the problems with "coding" Aons. But considering that it's so much like programming I wonder if it's possible to set up a macro of sorts. A complex Aon setup that you could use simpler Aons to "run" multiple functions. 

[Dunkum]

12 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

I'm sure there is a way to use AonDor to duplicate pretty much every magic system. The issue as you raised is the problems with "coding" Aons. But considering that it's so much like programming I wonder if it's possible to set up a macro of sorts. A complex Aon setup that you could use simpler Aons to "run" multiple functions. 

we know that there are plates in Elantris that are basically touch activated lights.  thats a pretty simple case, but it seems to indicate that a basic "touch this to activate" interface is possible, and can probably be combined with other Aons for other effects.  more important is what else they can make as a trigger.  AonDor is generally compared to programming, as has been noted, so it seems likely that a particularly expert user could probably find a way to make other triggers.  for the purposes of a fight, thought activated triggers would be nice, as would triggers activated by damage to armor or wearer.

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Yet there is no good Aonic replacement for tin, pewter and electrum. Hence Elantrians would depend on ranged weapons and defenses.

that we know of.  do we actually have the full set of Aons and their meanings?  I was under the impression that we only ever got a sampling.

[Frustration]

53 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

that we know of.  do we actually have the full set of Aons and their meanings?  I was under the impression that we only ever got a sampling.

We only got a few. Also what is the Aon for death? That's a one hit kill right there.

[Honorless]

25 minutes ago, Frustration said:

We only got a few. Also what is the Aon for death? That's a one hit kill right there.

Aon Sheo, we don't actually know what it does

Let's not forget that Elantrians can apparently make items like the Connection sphere and Fortune sphere

Speaking off, how they end up hacking the magic to make it work off-world is also a concern

[+Bzhydack]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Let's talk about offence - Daa and Sheo

Drawing it into the air is just horrible. You want something for aiming. You would basically build an Aonic ray gun.
Sheo goes onto your bladed weapons.

Is also Ehe, simply giant flamethrower. Can be very usefull.

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

I'm sure there is a way to use AonDor to duplicate pretty much every magic system. The issue as you raised is the problems with "coding" Aons. But considering that it's so much like programming I wonder if it's possible to set up a macro of sorts. A complex Aon setup that you could use simpler Aons to "run" multiple functions. 

You likely can, but it would take too much time. Malata is the best example. Of course you could replicate this via Aons. But you'd have to include the design.

[Dunkum]

8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You likely can, but it would take too much time. Malata is the best example. Of course you could replicate this via Aons. But you'd have to include the design.

It would take too long to draw if you had to draw them every single time, but it seems likely that many could be built in and ready for activation with a much simpler trigger.  Someone mentioned it either here or in the other thread: one of AonDor's strengths is the ability to create magical items, particularly when combined with its inherent flexibility. 

[Honorless]

Let's not forget everyone's favourite Aon: Tia

Edited July 11, 2020 by R J

[+Krox]

On 10.7.2020 at 6:47 PM, Honorless said:

Aon Sheo, we don't actually know what it does

Let's not forget that Elantrians can apparently make items like the Connection sphere and Fortune sphere

Speaking off, how they end up hacking the magic to make it work off-world is also a concern

Do we know anything about the power cord that Kelsier finds on the Ire-fortress in the cognitive realm, could they have a Dor-generator somehow?
 

[Innovation]

I thought they were piping Investiture from Sel somehow. They could be transforming other Investiture into usable Investiture. Perhaps Stormlight or metals?

Edited July 18, 2020 by Innovation

[+Krox]

8 hours ago, Innovation said:

I thought they were piping Investiture from Sel somehow. They could be transforming other Investiture into usable Investiture. Perhaps Stormlight or metals?

That was kind of my thought, but couldn't find any reliable information and Kelsier didn't really speculate more on the glowing cord himself! But regarding the dangers of being around Sel in the cognitive realm, and the complete lack of understanding, I don't know how they could tap the Investiture and make it flow through cables/pipes..

[Innovation]

If you could make the pipe in the shape of an Aon, then you could safely have the Dor flow through it. Alternatively, since Investiture is resisted by other Investitiure, you could just have a metal pipe. 

[Honorless]

21 hours ago, Innovation said:

I thought they were piping Investiture from Sel somehow. They could be transforming other Investiture into usable Investiture. Perhaps Stormlight or metals?

Yeah, it's commonly assumed that they were piping Investiture from the Dor to their fortress.

Transforming one form of Investiture into another is very difficult, even Vasher hasn't figured it out yet. (Scadrial might have quite the edge here over other Shardworlds, if what we've been theorising regarding nicrosil is correct)

Messing with Connection would work:

Quote

DoritoJH

So, AonDor is super versatile and powerful.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but region-locked!

DoritoJH

Yes, it is region locked, exactly. If a full Feruchemist using nicrosil were to create an unlocked medallion that allowed an Elantrian to store Connection to Elantris' location, would it let them use AonDor at full power as long as they were tapping that Connection?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. That should work just fine.

...

Just understand that the medallion's going to have to be usable by everyone in order to work. You're going to have to jump through some hoops, but I think what you want there would work. And for those of you listening, that would be the harder way to unlock AonDor. There are easier methods.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 31, 2019)

 

[18th Shard]

Quote

DrogaKrolow

OK, I’ve got a question about AonDor.

Brandon Sanderson

Ok.

DrogaKrolow

So it's a lot like functional programing.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

DrogaKrolow

And my question is: could you write a higher-level language of programming with that?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

DrogaKrolow

Oh...

Brandon Sanderson

Mmhmm. But. Only an Elantrian could make it, like, work, right? Not compile but could execute the function. They would have to type it out and execute it. Like if you were just-- Even if you just gave it to them, they would have to retype it and go. But yes, you could.

DrogaKrolow

Couldn't you like-- Is there an Aon for define, definition? So like you could go and define some really long sequence of Aons and then assign it to a simple shape.

Brandon Sanderson

Right.

DrogaKrolow

Then draw the symbol, and would it work?

Brandon Sanderson

Right right, object-oriented. This is realistically plausible, you would have to write all this stuff and call the function and have this constantly in a state of kinetic Investiture. But that is reasonable. I mean it's not so far off from things they actually did with much fewer-- much fewer lines of code, if you wish, in the past. It's what Elantris itself was.

DrogaKrolow.pl interview (March 17, 2017)