Parshmen Origins

[ckennedy]

I had a thought on the origins of Parshmen reading through some of the epigraphs from Oathbringer, chs 77-82:

"Something must be done about the remnants of Odium's forces. The parsh, as they are now called, continue their war with zeal, even without their masters from Damnation."

"A coalition has been formed among scholar Radiants. Our goal is to deny the enemy their supply of Voidlight; this will prevent their continuing transformations, and give us an edge in combat."

"Our revelation is fueled by the theory that the Unmade can perhaps be captured like ordinary spren. It would require a special prison. And Melishi."

"Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her."

"We are uncertain the effects this will have on the parsh. At the very least, it should deny them forms of power. Melishi is confident, but Naze-daughter-Kuzodo warns of unintended side effects." [emphasis added]

"Surely this will bring - at long last - the end to war that the Heralds promised us."

I think that when they were successful, trapped Ba-Ado-Mishram, and took away the voidlight, The "Unintended consequences" were the permanent transformation of parch/parchendi from their power forms into dullform.  Which is why with their new supply of voidlight their descendants are finally able to transform out of dullform.

It will raise in interesting question for our heros.  Once they work this out, if they want to remove voidlight to end the war, they will be condemning parshendi back to dullform.  I'm guessing for those like Kaladin who have gotten to know some of the transformed Parchmen this will create quite an ethical dilemma.  It reminds me a bit of the decision Truman had to make around using the A-bomb - can the ends justify the means.  But with a twist, since to follow the analogy it would be "Would using the a-bomb have been justified if the US had started the war..."

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by ckennedy

[Karger he/him]

Welcome!  Yes that is the general theory.

58 minutes ago, ckennedy said:

It reminds me a bit of the decision Truman had to make around using the A-bomb - can the ends justify the means

This example always annoys me(kind of a pet peeve).  Truman's decision was not controversial it took him about 20 minutes to decide and no one at the time raised ethical considerations.  They did not see it as substantially different from bombing cities in general.

[Honorless he/him]

Welcome to the Shard, @ckennedy! And yeah, that's the current theory here on the Shard and in-world regarding the False Desolation, imprisonment of Ba-Ado-Mishram and the consequent transformation of the Singers into the Parshmen.

I do not think that history world repeat itself in this case though, the circumstances were both a bit unique back then with Ba-Ado-Mishram somehow fueling the Forms of power and now with the Final Desolation having approached and the Everstorm circulating on Roshar

[GoWibble he/him]

Welcome to the Shard! 

very nice, I didn't connect that until Shardcast introduced it to me

just wondering, what other cosmere have you read (mostly for spoilers)

*also, it is just me, but mmmm, spelling... it is parshmen, btw 

[Frustration]

9 hours ago, Karger said:

Welcome!  Yes that is the general theory.

This example always annoys me(kind of a pet peeve).  Truman's decision was not controversial it took him about 20 minutes to decide and no one at the time raised ethical considerations.  They did not see it as substantially different from bombing cities in general.

And it actually saved lives, I think the estimation was about 1 million US lives alone where saved, not to mention the Japanese lives.

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

Minor correction, but I th7nk your confusing Slaveform and Dullform. Parshendi use Dullform to spy (think Rlain). Slaveform is the, uhh, slaves.

We also know that whatever happened to BAM wasn't absolute because the Parshendi (ethnicity not species) were at worst reduced to Dull and Mateform, which they did so willingly. 

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

2 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

We also know that whatever happened to BAM wasn't absolute because the Parshendi (ethnicity not species) were at worst reduced to Dull and Mateform, which they did so willingly. 

You mean the Listeners. Eshonai and Venli's batch of Parshendi out in the Shattered Plains, yeah? The Singers are the whole species IIRC. Could also have terms mixed up (everything is confusing with these people)

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

2 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

You mean the Listeners. Eshonai and Venli's batch of Parshendi out in the Shattered Plains, yeah? The Singers are the whole species IIRC. Could also have terms mixed up (everything is confusing with these people)

The entire species is Singers, Listeners and Parshendi refer to the same group within the broader category. From the coppermind.

Quote

The listeners, called the Parshendi by the Alethi, are a group or ethnicity of singers on Roshar.

Prior to the True Desolation, they lived on eastern Roshar, near the Shattered Plains. During the War of Reckoning, they inhabited the city of Narak.

And yah it's a pain to wrap your head around.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

2 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

The entire species is Singers, Listeners and Parshendi refer to the same group within the broader category. From the coppermind.

And yah it's a pain to wrap your head around.

Blegh, thank you for correcting me.

Hopefully we can get some clarity on what the official/preferred term should be for each.