Study of Arcane Interactions: Allomancy and Surgebindung

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Suppose you were a Mistborn and became a Surgebinder, specifically a Lightweaver, what tests of interactions between your powers would you do?

• a pewter run while on Stormlight
• do soulcast metals power my allomancy
• do I instantly heal if burning duraluminium while on Stormlight
• can I communicate with my spren while in a speed bubble
• can I use steel/iron on my shard blade
• what happens if I use soulcasting on a metal object I am using iron/steel on?
• can I hear my spren with bronze
• can I hear my illusions with bronze
• can my spren use allomancy
• does my spren develop an electrum shadow
• does my spren develop a gold doppelgänger
• can I use emotional allomancy on my spren
• does a coppercloud interfere with lightweavings, soulcasting or summoning my shard blade
• can I destroy a lightweaving with chromium
• do I wipe out my Stormlight with aluminium
• what happens to existing illusions if I use aluminium

Anything else? And what would other orders do?

[+Artemos he/him]

For #2, you could burn soulcast metals. It'd be trivial for pure metals, but getting the ratios right for alloys would be harder.

Quote

Questioner

If I were to impulsively Soulcast pewter, the way Shallan does with the blood in The Way of Kings, would it come out that an Allomancer be able to use it?

Brandon Sanderson

You could create Allomantically viable metals, yes.

Questioner

But is it automatic?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say that the pure metals are, but the alloys are not.

Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

For #5, it'd be really difficult to push on a shardblade.

Quote

Questioner

Could you use steel or iron to Push or Pull off Shardblades or Shardplate?

Brandon Sanderson

Anything that's Invested resists, the more Invested it is the more it resists.

Questioner

Okay, so you could technically--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

--if it was not charged?

Brandon Sanderson

Well-- Certain objects just have more Investiture and are more purely of the Investiture. A Shardblade's going to be really hard, but it's possible, it's just going to be really, really hard. Even more hard than an absolutely full Feruchemical metalmind because the Shardblade is being created directly out of the Investiture, it's basically all Investiture, it's not a metal that is Invested. It's going to be real hard.

Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)

 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

4 minutes ago, Artemos said:

For #2, you could burn soulcast metals. It'd be trivial for pure metals, but getting the ratios right for alloys would be harder.

OK, but that is not really exactly the topic. You as a mistborn would not have this information. I am asking people to contribute questions a clever Mistborn should and would ask, not answers we already have.

4 minutes ago, Artemos said:

For #5, it'd be really difficult to push on a shardblade.

Even your own? Your own Shard Plate is transparent to your Surges after all.

[The Cardinal of Death]

for the being able to hear your illusions id take a look at the screamer void spren they can sense when a lashing is used but not when a light weaving is made pattern even says that a light weaving is quieter than a lashing implying a screamers powers is similer to a bronze misting but i bet you could hear  it but it woud just be more subtle so if im a mistborn and assuming id run into screamers id think thats a good indication of capabilitys of light weavings

On 4/20/2020 at 2:53 PM, Oltux72 said:

OK, but that is not really exactly the topic. You as a mistborn would not have this information. I am asking people to contribute questions a clever Mistborn should and would ask, not answers we already have.

Even your own? Your own Shard Plate is transparent to your Surges after all.

for the shard blade it resists being affected by other forms of imvestiture maybe it reacts less to your own but when you steel psuh that isnt your power its preservations/harmonys so yeah its definatly going to resist like trying to push breaths into shardplate it isnt going  work unless your able to push threw the interference 

Edited April 20, 2020 by The Cardinal of Death

[Karger he/him]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Anything else?

Trying to figure Hoid I see.

• Use the CR access you get through transformation and burn bronze.
• Also burn copper.
• See if your spren can push/pull on both things and emotions.
• See if your spren can gain any enhancement from tin.
• Work on some soulcasting combo moves.  Making a coin and then pushing at it on the same instant.  Soulcasting metal of all of the alloys inside your mouth.
• Duraluminium in conjunction with lightweavig(making super loud noises or flashbangs).
• Duraluminium in conjunction with soulcasting.  Potentially helpful against highly resistant substances(like things already alive).

[+Oltux72 he/him]

12 hours ago, Karger said:

Trying to figure Hoid I see.

He won't stay the only one. Harmony will eventually send at least Mistings to Roshar. Well technically Demoux is a Misting.

[NameIess]

I don't honestly see Duraluminum being that useful for a KR. We haven't seen any limit to the amount of stormlight they can use at any one time, so Duraluminum would just use it all up at once in an uncontrolled burst, as opposed to being able to use it just as fast if you wanted to, with more control.

[Karger he/him]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

He won't stay the only one. Harmony will eventually send at least Mistings to Roshar. Well technically Demoux is a Misting.

True.

46 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I don't honestly see Duraluminum being that useful for a KR. We haven't seen any limit to the amount of stormlight they can use at any one time, so Duraluminum would just use it all up at once in an uncontrolled burst, as opposed to being able to use it just as fast if you wanted to, with more control.

An upper limit exists.  Otherwise during a highstorm Kaladin could move mountains.

[NameIess]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

An upper limit exists.  Otherwise during a highstorm Kaladin could move mountains.

Has he ever tried?  I think it's more likely that there is a limit to how much stormlight they can hold, or how fast they can breath it in.

[Karger he/him]

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Has he ever tried?  I think it's more likely that there is a limit to how much stormlight they can hold, or how fast they can breath it in.

If their is using that metal might allow the stormlight through him faster.

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

Random thought I had a while back, but if you’re a Skybreaker or a Windrunner, lash a coin a couple dozen times, and then just Pull on the coin in order to hitch a free ride without using as much Stormlight as usual (I think).

[NameIess]

2 hours ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Random thought I had a while back, but if you’re a Skybreaker or a Windrunner, lash a coin a couple dozen times, and then just Pull on the coin in order to hitch a free ride without using as much Stormlight as usual (I think).

You'd still have to lash the coin enough times so that it would be falling with enough force to pull your weight, right?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Nameless

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, Nameless said:

You'd still have to lash the coin enough times so that it would be falling with enough force to pull your weight, right?

yeah, probably better to have it be a large hunk of metal so at to overcome your weight.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

yeah, probably better to have it be a large hunk of metal so at to overcome your weight.

Or just lash yourself.

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

4 hours ago, Nameless said:

Or just lash yourself.

Well yeah, but that would be too easy

Edited April 23, 2020 by Truthless of Shinovar

[Ciridae]

If you can soulcast quickly enough, you could steel jump wherever you wanted, without having to bring coins for anchors. Jump, soulcast a bit of metal close to the ground, push, repeat.

Bonus if you can refuel your steel and duralumin with soulcasting quickly enough, every one of your steelpushed jumps would be a duralumin powered superjump. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

18 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

Bonus if you can refuel your steel and duralumin with soulcasting quickly enough, every one of your steelpushed jumps would be a duralumin powered superjump. 

Provided duraluminium does not wipe out your Stormlight. Hence the need for experimentation.

[Ciridae]

17 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Provided duraluminium does not wipe out your Stormlight. Hence the need for experimentation.

Youre right, it probably would. I guess you would have to carry spheres, and take in only enough stormlight to refuel each time.

[The Cardinal of Death]

1 hour ago, Ciridae said:

If you can soulcast quickly enough, you could steel jump wherever you wanted, without having to bring coins for anchors. Jump, soulcast a bit of metal close to the ground, push, repeat.

Bonus if you can refuel your steel and duralumin with soulcasting quickly enough, every one of your steelpushed jumps would be a duralumin powered superjump. 

that defiantly seems like a viable way to keep up with some one like a windrunner although soul casting savantism could have some problems to be fair thats only if they were using a soul caster which would result in some parts of the body becoming metal  if they have a spren bond the savantism manifests in a unkown way but assuming a soul caster is used i wonder what would occur if one tried to burn the metal there body has now become assuming its allomanticaly viable also burning metals like alluminun would effectively be a death sentence if the metal is usable for allomancy

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Suppose you were a Feruchemist and became a Surgebinder, specifically a Lightweaver. What interactions would you study, especially if you had some knowledge of the theory of the arcane arts? Yes, you know whom I am suspecting of doing exactly that.

My suggestions for the generic effects would be:

• Stormlight and pewter - does the increase in endurance affect the muscles I get from a pewter mind
• Stormlight alters your mood - can that be stored in an electrum mind
• Stormlight heals - can that effect be stored in a gold mind
• Stormlight replaces breathing - can that effect be stored in a cadmium mind
• Can Stormlight in general be stored in a nicrosil mind
• Does tapping a steel mind speed up healing

The surges:

• Does tapping a duralumium mind facilitate soulcasting
• Does tapping an electrum mind facilitate soulcasting
• What happens to the Investiture in a metal mind if I soulcast it into another metal
• Does it matter whether I soulcast my metal mind or somebody else's or an unkeyed metal mind

Interaction with my spren

• Does my spren become stupid while I am filling a zinc mind
• Can my spren use feruchemy

Interaction with a Shard Blade

• Can I store anything in it
• Does gold heal blade injuries (that is rather risky an experiment unless you are sure you have alternative methods)
• How full does a metal mind have to be to block a blade
• Does it matter which metal mind I use to block the blade (aluminium aside)

Interactions with Plate

• Can I store the strength from the Plate in a pewter mind
• Can I store the Plate's mass in an iron mind
• Can I use Surgebinding through the Plate if I store most of my Identity away

[The Cardinal of Death]

id personally try the soucasting a metal mind wich would be pretty difficult but i imagine what would happen is for example i turn steel into iron theres still power in it but i cant use it like when you mix to metalminds together youd know theres power but couldnt use it  now if you tried compounding this metalmind i have no idea  id also attempt to make  an unsealed metalmind that incoroporates different fabrials to get some extra benefits  like see if i can some how link a copper medalion and a spanreed to transmit memories  id also see if i could store the emotional effects of the thrill or from a painrial id also test assuming im aware of the memory affecting benefts of being a light weaver interact with a coppermind and maybe if there is a feruchemist that went to the nightwatcher could they some how store the curse in a nicrosil mind while keeping the boon of course hoping they dont get cultivation mad  when she finds out

Edited April 26, 2020 by The Cardinal of Death

[Karger he/him]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Stormlight and pewter - does the increase in endurance affect the muscles I get from a pewter mind

Slightly?  Most investiture tends to be additive.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Stormlight alters your mood - can that be stored in an electrum mind

It will make storing easier seems to be the shard consensuses.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Stormlight heals - can that effect be stored in a gold mind

See above.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Can Stormlight in general be stored in a nicrosil mind

You can store breath so almost certainly.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Does tapping a steel mind speed up healing

Personally I think yes since I see steel as a localized time manipulations.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

• Does tapping a duralumium mind facilitate soulcasting
• Does tapping an electrum mind facilitate soulcasting

I think yes.  Try aluminum too it might make a difference.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

What happens to the Investiture in a metal mind if I soulcast it into another metal

I think it goes away.  Remember soulcasting alters the spiritual aspect. 

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Does it matter whether I soulcast my metal mind or somebody else's or an unkeyed metal mind

No.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

• Does my spren become stupid while I am filling a zinc mind
• Can my spren use feruchemy

Maybe

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Can I store anything in it

Potentially yes although not much.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Does gold heal blade injuries (that is rather risky an experiment unless you are sure you have alternative methods)

Yes it does.  Same as regrowths.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

• How full does a metal mind have to be to block a blade
• Does it matter which metal mind I use to block the blade (aluminium aside)

Very and I don't think so.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Can I store the strength from the Plate in a pewter mind

No although you could avoid falling over while storing.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Can I store the Plate's mass in an iron mind

I don't think so.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Can I use Surgebinding through the Plate if I store most of my Identity away

Yes.  Same as an unkeyed metalmind.

[Dunkum he/him]

On 4/26/2020 at 5:44 AM, The Cardinal of Death said:

id personally try the soucasting a metal mind wich would be pretty difficult but i imagine what would happen is for example i turn steel into iron theres still power in it but i cant use it like when you mix to metalminds together youd know theres power but couldnt use it  now if you tried compounding this metalmind i have no idea

this I think is potentially very interesting.  I'm pretty sure we have a WoB that if you soulcast say a metalmind into some other (feruchemically viable) metal you wouldnt be able to tap the investiture, because the metal and investiture wouldnt match up, though i've never been good at finding those things.  but since compunding overwrites the allomantic use of the metal with the ferruchemic signature of the stored investiture, would it matter allomantically if the ferruchemical metal was wrong?

bronze, copper, aluminum, duralumin, chromium, and nicrosil could definitely make for interesting interactions, whcih could be very fun to explore.  Copper in particular i'd want to test not just with my own stuff, but with other surges as well.  like if i have a coppercloud up will that make it harder for someone else to heal me using progression?  what about trying ot heal someone else inside the cloud?  what if the healer is inside vs outside the boundary of the cloud when they try.  and similar tests for all the surges that you could do (though maybe be very careful with destruction and soulcasting, probably dont want to test that on a person...).  plus bronze to see if say the different wind runner lashing feel different.  or if Renarin's use of progression feels different from Lift's, since its the same surge being used by different orders (to say nothing of how Renarin's particular illumination surge would feel).