+Bliev she/her Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 IMHO he already did this. He dealt with Tien dying, who was closer to him than anyone, AND he felt it was his fault. He also already thought he "killed" (really, lost) Syl. I don't see Brandon re-traversing this plot line since Kal's already overcome it. I know we see some characters do the Paula Abdul (two steps forward; one step back lol), but Kal's progress is mostly stalled, not reversed. I don't see this as his likely path (aside from the difficulties in logic around deepening a bond by swearing an oath that ends up breaking the bond/killing it?). 1
Quantus he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 Personally I dont see Syl dying just because it would remove the Windrunner from Dalinar's set of Ten that were present at Thaylen Field. But the core concept of continuing tragedy is a definite possibility, especially depending on what the Windrunner 4th proves to be. If this is in his future, I suspect it would either be a new character (maybe he gets himself a proper girl/boyfriend) or else a broad swath of Bridge 4 is lost. Or something a little more tangential but equally self-blame-y, like him personally failing to protect Rock's family in some tragic circumstance.
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, Quantus said: Personally I dont see Syl dying just because it would remove the Windrunner from Dalinar's set of Ten that were present at Thaylen Field. But the core concept of continuing tragedy is a definite possibility, especially depending on what the Windrunner 4th proves to be. If this is in his future, I suspect it would either be a new character (maybe he gets himself a proper girl/boyfriend) or else a broad swath of Bridge 4 is lost. Or something a little more tangential but equally self-blame-y, like him personally failing to protect Rock's family in some tragic circumstance. I've given such things thought but Syl is the one the reader has spent most time with so that will hurt the most.
Steel Inquisitive he/him Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Booknerd said: I've given such things thought but Syl is the one the reader has spent most time with so that will hurt the most. I mean we're only on book three of ten. Assuming this happens late in the series there's plenty of time to introduce a new character and develop their relationship. 3
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said: I mean we're only on book three of ten. Assuming this happens late in the series there's plenty of time to introduce a new character and develop their relationship. Maybe but that kind of leaves Syl as a constant. If a new relationship develops and I think it will, then it will be Kal's fallback.
Naurock Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 I'm going to have to disagree with this theory. Kaladin's arc is more than just loss, it's his persistence to change the situations. This is what made him an ideal Proto-Radiant. @Karger makes a great point that without Syl that Kaladin is no longer a Radiant, which makes oaths unnecessary. 15 hours ago, Booknerd said: Unless Kaladin Accends. Are you basing this on the thought that the Stormfather calls Kaladin "Son of Honor"? The problem is Kaladin cannot Ascend because Dalinar is the one bonded to the Stormfather which is the largest remnant of Honor. Honor is the only shattered Shard on Roshar and only Honor, Odium and Cultivation are on Roshar. So unless if Cultivation passes her shard to Kaladin, it would require Dalinar to die. Part of Dalinar's Ascension seemed to rely on so many Glory spren flooding Thaylen Field for Dalinar. 1
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Naurock said: I'm going to have to disagree with this theory. Kaladin's arc is more than just loss, it's his persistence to change the situations. This is what made him an ideal Proto-Radiant. @Karger makes a great point that without Syl that Kaladin is no longer a Radiant, which makes oaths unnecessary. What hurts Kaladin more, the fact that his situation is so bad? or the fact that people he loves will still die? 59 minutes ago, Naurock said: Are you basing this on the thought that the Stormfather calls Kaladin "Son of Honor"? The problem is Kaladin cannot Ascend because Dalinar is the one bonded to the Stormfather which is the largest remnant of Honor. Honor is the only shattered Shard on Roshar and only Honor, Odium and Cultivation are on Roshar. So unless if Cultivation passes her shard to Kaladin, it would require Dalinar to die. Part of Dalinar's Ascension seemed to rely on so many Glory spren flooding Thaylen Field for Dalinar. Mistborn SH Spoiler Kelisier had already ascended, but Vin Ascended anyway(and in my opinion could have forced him out if he hadn't given up. ) So Dalinar being bonded to Stormfather is not a problem. Edited March 19, 2020 by Booknerd
NameIess Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, Booknerd said: So Dalinar being bonded to Stormfather is not a problem. Except in this situation, it would be like: SH spoilers Spoiler Dalinar would be Vin, as he is more connected to Honor through his connection to the Stormfather.
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Nameless said: Except in this situation, it would be like: SH spoilers Reveal hidden contents Dalinar would be Vin, as he is more connected to Honor through his connection to the Stormfather. Depends on Kal's connection, if my personal theory is true then Dalinar's connection is but a spark compared to the star that Kaladin holds.
NameIess Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Booknerd said: Depends on Kal's connection, if my personal theory is true then Dalinar's connection is but a spark compared to the star that Kaladin holds. That theory isn't true: Quote Zeamay Are Lirin and Hesina Kaladin's biological parents? Brandon Sanderson Yes. And even if it was, then why wouldn't the Stormfather bond with Kaladin, the perfect choice?
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Nameless said: That theory isn't true: And even if it was, then why wouldn't the Stormfather bond with Kaladin, the perfect choice? If you want to discus that theories validity do so there, I have already responded to that WoB. This page is for my theory on Syl's impending death
NameIess Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Booknerd said: If you want to discus that theories validity do so there, I have already responded to that WoB. This page is for my theory on Syl's impending death Alright. To get out of the rabbit hole, there is only circumstantial evidence for this theory, nothing concrete. It could happen, but then Kaladin could also die in the first act of ROW. 1
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nameless said: Alright. To get out of the rabbit hole, there is only circumstantial evidence for this theory, nothing concrete. It could happen, but then Kaladin could also die in the first act of ROW. If everything was concrete it wouldn't be a theory just an eventuality waiting to happen. It more feels right than anything
Naurock Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 26 minutes ago, Booknerd said: So Dalinar being bonded to Stormfather is not a problem. That situation isn't a perfect fit. Spoiler Kelsier took the shard so the Ire couldn't. He then gave it to Vin. They did not co-hold it. He went back to being a cognitive shadow. For your analogy to work, Dalinar would need to unbond the Stormfather and Kaladin immediately swear up to at least the third BONDSMITH oath.
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, Naurock said: That situation isn't a perfect fit. Reveal hidden contents Kelsier took the shard so the Ire couldn't. He then gave it to Vin. They did not co-hold it. He went back to being a cognitive shadow. For your analogy to work, Dalinar would need to unbond the Stormfather and Kaladin immediately swear up to at least the third BONDSMITH oath. Why on earth would he need to be a Bondsmith to Ascend?
Naurock Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Booknerd said: Why on earth would he need to be a Bondsmith to Ascend? The Stormfather is the largest remnant of Honor. You need a shard to ascend.
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 Just now, Naurock said: The Stormfather is the largest remnant of Honor. You need a shard to ascend. So? Stormfather can just give up the piece he has no need to unbond Dalinar, or bond Kal.
NameIess Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Booknerd said: So? Stormfather can just give up the piece he has no need to unbond Dalinar, or bond Kal. That would make him not the Stormfather anymore. 3
Naurock Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Booknerd said: So? Stormfather can just give up the piece he has no need to unbond Dalinar, or bond Kal. Why would he do that? Assuming he COULD do that (we have nothing to point to that spren could do that), why? Do you remember how he spoke to Dalinar in the beginning of Oathbringer? He's not nice or forgiving. He is the essence of the storm. 1
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Nameless said: That would make him not the Stormfather anymore. It would make him into what he was before 1 minute ago, Naurock said: Why would he do that? Assuming he COULD do that (we have nothing to point to that spren could do that), why? Do you remember how he spoke to Dalinar in the beginning of Oathbringer? He's not nice or forgiving. He is the essence of the storm. But he also does what Honor tells him
Naurock Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Booknerd said: It would make him into what he was before But he also does what Honor tells him Honor is dead. Odium killed him. 1
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 50 minutes ago, Naurock said: Honor is dead. Odium killed him. Honor is a shard not a person someone held Honor before Tanavast someone will hold it after
Khokh Linil Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 19 hours ago, Booknerd said: Proceed at your own risk. Kaladin's arc is based around how everyone close to him dies, he must take the death of someone extremely close to him and accept it. There is no one closer than Syl. This is compounded by his admition that he needs to be there for the living not the dead, so unfortunately Syl must die irreversibly and totally, sent to the Beyond dead. I can't see a way around it and that terrifies me, but I see nobody else close enough to Kal to maximize the feels. 11 hours ago, Dreamer said: Kaladin's arc is more than just everybody around him dying. ^ Exactly. It is about him saving those around him and how he has to overcome the fact that he cannot save everyone. Thus Syl does not necessarily have to die to complete his arc. I feel like his arc will culminate with him finally being able to swear the fifth ideal after struggling mightily with it.
Naurock Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Booknerd said: Honor is a shard not a person someone held Honor before Tanavast someone will hold it after That's right! You got it now! But the shard of Honor was shattered by Odium too, either after he killed Tanavast or at the same time. So we have established that Honor is, in fact, not giving orders to the Stormfather, correct?
Frustration Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Naurock said: That's right! You got it now! But the shard of Honor was shattered by Odium too, either after he killed Tanavast or at the same time. So we have established that Honor is, in fact, not giving orders to the Stormfather, correct? Honor has pregiven Orders that Stormfather is following, and if someone got close enough to becoming Honor then Stormfather would probably obey them too.
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