Koloss17 She/They Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 i Like playing with hypotheticals here, but what if other shards could return? I’m sure there’s some way to do this without it being hypothetical. So coppermind describes the choosing of people returning as “random”, but I’m fairly sure endowment just decided “oh I want that one to return” because of the embodiment of giving. Endowment decides to return people that are very giving to others, with some exceptions, such as the god king, who endowment just wants to exist. With that being said, I think the power of returning would be terrifying in some shards hands. Odium would just want to have an army of returned, and ruin would be fairly scary as well. What would other shards do with the power to return things? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: Odium would just want to have an army of returned, and ruin would be fairly scary as well. We already know what Odium would do with Returned, he has the Fused, they are the same concept. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Llstml said: We already know what Odium would do with Returned, he has the Fused, they are the same concept. On that note; The Heralds are also a very similar mechanic via Honor's Investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Koloss17 said: So coppermind describes the choosing of people returning as “random”, but I’m fairly sure endowment just decided “oh I want that one to return” because of the embodiment of giving. Endowment decides to return people that are very giving to others, with some exceptions, such as the god king, who endowment just wants to exist. If the coppermind still says that I believe it's incorrect, we have WOB confirmation that it is a conscious decision by an admittedly erratic Entity (Ie Endowment). Per THE SAME WOB, she doesnt have a specific Task to fulfill, persay, but she does have "certain things she is looking for". Being some kind of "Embodiment of Endowment" might fit that, though I dont think all the Returned we've seen really fit that mold, personally. The theory Ive seen is that she takes a look at their Spiritual Might-Have-Been's, examining their Fortune/Destiny, and occasionally decides to give them a chance to Make some Change to what they/she sees. At least, that's a common interpretation of what we got from Lightsong's experience. 1 hour ago, Koloss17 said: With that being said, I think the power of returning would be terrifying in some shards hands. For what it's worth, I think most of the shards are going to have this ability, unless they feel it is counter to their specific Intent. Fused are an equivalent example, as are Heralds in my opinion (though details of the Oathpact that made them are still scarce), and somebody managed the same effect on Kelsier with a Spike. 1 hour ago, Koloss17 said: What would other shards do with the power to return things? I could see this happening on Sel pretty easily, though it vary wildly by region. As a general statement it seems like one of the common traits is that it grants abnormal access to the local magic (auto-5th heightening, Fused Surges, etc). Maybe for AonDor it would be more or less Elantrians? I could see it making immortal Super Dakhor Monks fairly easily. Forgery's a bit harder, though if you had a premade stamp managed to use it immediately after a person died, you might be able to bring them back but he Stamp's investiture would be all that was keeping their soul anchored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless he/him Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Agreed with @Llstml, @The Sovereign and @Quantus. The ability to Return people, as it is called in Nalthis, should not be a Nalthis only or Endowment only Investiture phenomena. It would have less to do with which Shard can do it and more to do with which Shard will find it counter to their Intent. Preservation for example, seems like such a thing fits with his Intent quite well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Honorless said: Agreed with @Llstml, @The Sovereign and @Quantus. The ability to Return people, as it is called in Nalthis, should not be a Nalthis only or Endowment only Investiture phenomena. It would have less to do with which Shard can do it and more to do with which Shard will find it counter to their Intent. Preservation for example, seems like such a thing fits with his Intent quite well While Ruin would find the practice abhorrent. I don't think Dominion or Ambition (had they lived) would condone the practice, but I'm sure Cultivation would be all for it if she didn't have to share a system. Devotion likely gives it a thumbs up, the unconfirmed Ingenuity Shard would likely find the practice of very limited utility. Badvadin makes Avatars; she'd probably see making Returned in her various magic systems as redundant. No hint on what the other Shardic intents are so I can't speculate on how they'd feel about the practice or whether it would align with their intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said: While Ruin would find the practice abhorrent. I don't think Dominion or Ambition (had they lived) would condone the practice, but I'm sure Cultivation would be all for it if she didn't have to share a system. Devotion likely gives it a thumbs up, the unconfirmed Ingenuity Shard would likely find the practice of very limited utility. Badvadin makes Avatars; she'd probably see making Returned in her various magic systems as redundant. No hint on what the other Shardic intents are so I can't speculate on how they'd feel about the practice or whether it would align with their intent. Technically true, but we know of at least one example of it being done with a Spike. And Ruin did manage to participate in the Creation of a whole Planet, so if he thought there might be a Ruinous payoff for that Spike Function, it might not run afoul of the Intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Awakened Salad they/them Posted February 6, 2020 Report Share Posted February 6, 2020 On 05/02/2020 at 1:16 AM, Quantus said: Technically true, but we know of at least one example of it being done with a Spike. And Ruin did manage to participate in the Creation of a whole Planet, so if he thought there might be a Ruinous payoff for that Spike Function, it might not run afoul of the Intent. True, but we don’t know how much time passed between Ati picking up Ruin and then Ruin and Preservation creating Scadrial. It could’ve been early enough that Ati’s mind wasn’t completely overrun, and he still had some level of control over the shard. And he only agreed to create it in the first place so that he could destroy it later. (Then again, the opposite could also hold true. We just don’t know enough at the moment). What was the instance of someone Returning with a spike? It’s evading me at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted February 6, 2020 Report Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, The Awakened Salad said: What was the instance of someone Returning with a spike? It’s evading me at the moment. Kelsier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Awakened Salad they/them Posted February 6, 2020 Report Share Posted February 6, 2020 9 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said: Kelsier Ah right, of course. How did I forget that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent34 Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 2/5/2020 at 1:46 AM, Quantus said: Technically true, but we know of at least one example of it being done with a Spike. And Ruin did manage to participate in the Creation of a whole Planet, so if he thought there might be a Ruinous payoff for that Spike Function, it might not run afoul of the Intent. Hemalurgy doesn't have to work in ways Ruin would want though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceferring he/him Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Also, Ati was dead already when Kelsier "Returned". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 9 hours ago, Agent34 said: Hemalurgy doesn't have to work in ways Ruin would want though. Precisely my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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