Novellas, Viewpoints , radiants , royals and other stuff. [All the spoilers]

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth]

This post are a few thoughts on the stories and worlds in the cosmere that i had for quite some time now and i decided to express them on here. It's going to be a bit of a ramble but maybe sombody is interested.

Despite me complaining about some things in the post below keep in mind that the cosmere is still my favorite series of books and i can't wai to see what the next decades of cosmere books may bring and what Sanderson is doing with all the characters. And it unsurprisingly is just my opinion.

I started the cosmere with WoK, then Mistborn, then Elantris and Warbreaker.They are all great. But something about them wass alway familiar.
I didn't have access to the short stories until Arcanum came out. I absolutely loved them. Even though we didn't see much of the worlds or magic I found the characters and stories themselves way more interesting than alot of the big novels. Especially "the Emperor soul" is in my View has the best writing of all of the cosmere.

What really started to bother me about the big 4 (SA, Mistborn, Elantris and Warbreaker) during rereads is how similar some Aspects felt. Every book many of our viewpointcharacters are part of one or the other royal family and a lot of the plot revolves around the intruiges of noblehouses. And somehow the magicusers are more likely to be nobles. At least among view point characters.

It didn't bother me in Mistborn. I thought it fit the world well and there was a satisfying reason why everybody that had magic was part of the nobility. It was by TLRs design.
It didn't bother me in warbreaker since he put a little twist on the noble houses with the court of gods. The returned made for an interesting choice for a ruling class.
It botherd me a little in Elantris. I had already seen it 2 before I read Elantris. But the book was one of his first ones and The story about the elantrians was engaging on its own.

It bothers me A LOT in Stormlight. The longer I think about it ( And maybe i just think about those things to much) the more I wish SA would have been diffrent. I think the setting, the magic, the story and the scope would have allowed for something way more original.

The concept of radiants, and how somebody becomes a radiant is brilliant in my eyes. A magic system that is pracitcally built to go great with character development. Litterly anybody who stays true to certain principles and finds the oaths has a chance of becoming radiant. This would be a great opportiunity to have very diverse Viewpoints. But who are the radiants in the actual story at the end of OB?
a Highprince,his son (a prince), the bodyguard of that highprince, a princess-Sholar who is his nice, His nephew the king could have become one(RIP), and his daughter in law. If Adolin revivies Maya there is just Navani left. Even Gavilar could have been one. But its not supposed to be inheritable like allomancy. Even if it turns out that it is inheritable on some level i wouldn't like it more. This royal family really is true to its principles like no other family on Roshar.

So many interesting Characters could be radiants. I liked Kaladins storyline a lot when he was a slave who wants to protect his comerades who he doesent even know while batteling giving up. I loved Shallan and Jasnahs initial Story in Karbranth. A Scolar and her ward who have a rocky relationship but discover that the end of the world is coming and they have special powers. They could have been the comfortable lie and the inconvienient truth as a character duo

I wan't to see radiants like lift. A poor girl who starts listening to the people that socety casts away. Or the owner of the Orphanage in Edgedancer. An old stone hearted Women who just wants to launder money but deep down starts to care about the kids.
Just normal but good people with flaws that have to become more through the oaths to save the world in a desolation. 10 massive books certanly gives enough space for all of those viewpoints and characters to come together in a massive very well build world such as roshar.

There are so many cultures and forms of goverment on Roshar. But we focus on the culture whos goverment is clostest to a bunch of Nobelhouses and their intruiges. And half of our radiants are the royal family of that culture. I'm aware why Brandon does a lot of the stuff i described above. I just sometimes wish he didn't and mix the conceps up a bit. He is already doing a great job from standing out from other fantasy books.

The entire plot of SA after WoR just feels like a more complicated Mistborn. We have a shard that killed another shard and is bringing the apocalipse. The king and his family are just trying to unite the world against it, but politics gets in the way. I don't know what i will do when somebody ascends to Honor.

I just wanted to get those thoughts out there and see what you guys think about those topics. In the end I'm shure I'll enjoy the SA regardless.

I have never written a book myself so it's not like i could do it better or something.

[+Ark1002]

Nobles do seem to be a trope brandon likes, yes (there's a shardcast about it)

But I understand why the Kholins would get spren. They are at the very center of events. So of course spren would see them before all the random others.

And there is tons of others out there, that will be expanded on! But they aren't as important, because, as I said, when telling a story, you focus on the center of the story, the most important ones.

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Shaukan-son-Hasweth said:

a Highprince,his son (a prince), the bodyguard of that highprince, a princess-Sholar who is his nice, His nephew the king could have become one(RIP), and his daughter in law. If Adolin revivies Maya there is just Navani left. Even Gavilar could have been one. But its not supposed to be inheritable like allomancy. Even if it turns out that it is inheritable on some level i wouldn't like it more. This royal family really is true to its principles like no other family on Roshar.

Radiance runs in families to a degree.  The Kholins are one of those families.  No other monarchy has produced Radiants.  Kaladin's family is also Radinat heavy Tien was a Lightweaver for example.  Also Lift is not exactly a noblewomen.  Kaladin is not.  Jasnah deliberately had Shallan marry into the family because she was one(before that she was a noble but not an important one), Szeth is not(although killing kings gets him close I suppose).  With the exception of Rock none of the Bridge Four are from important families.  Rysn might not be a Radiant but she is getting her own short-story as is Lopen(he is an unimportant Herdazian).  I have heard many complaints about SA but lack of diverse viewpoints does not seem like a very good one.  Even if Brandon's character concepts might seem a bit old.  Also how do you expect People like Lift and Kaladin to effectively mobilize Rosharan citizens without the help of the nobility?

2 hours ago, Shaukan-son-Hasweth said:

The entire plot of SA after WoR just feels like a more complicated Mistborn. We have a shard that killed another shard and is bringing the apocalipse. The king and his family are just trying to unite the world against it, but politics gets in the way. I don't know what i will do when somebody ascends to Honor.

On the other hand things are completely different.  Political victories are actually happening and working.  We did not even know what the apocalypse would look like until book 2 yet it was the thing Jasnah was trying to prevent in book 1.  No major social changes are happening on Roshar.  Existing political structures with some adjustment are standing firm.  There is no single god being to defeat.  We don't know if ascension is possible.  I doubt that you can beat Odium the way Vin did Ruin.  No Moash equivalent exists in Mistborn and no Vin equivalent exists in SA.  Dalinar's closest analogue in Mistborn is Reshek yet they are nothing alike.  Also Odium's goals are still mysterious in regards to the plannet of Roshar itself.  Ruin clearly wanted to destroy scadrial.  I could go on but I think my point makes it.

[+Harrycrapper]

I'm going to agree with Karger on this one, SA definitely has a large variety of viewpoint characters and it just seems you're focusing on the noble ones. Also, noble characters are great tools for fantasy authors because it's plausible that they'd be at the center of a lot of important events. It's a common trope and it works well. Noble characters also have the capability of being brought low by fate only to rise again like Dalinar in OB, it makes for a more dynamic reading experience. I'd understand this argument if it was about the Song of Ice and Fire(Game of Thrones) books, where literally every viewpoint character is of noble blood or a very select few work very closely with noblemen(I can only think of one such case though I may be forgetting some). But the same argument holds there too, they're all at the center of events, it doesn't make sense to tell the story from the perspective of a solider or a servant in large doses in a series mostly about political intrigue. Stormlight is a series about a conflict that spans an entire continent on a planet with only one continent, it stands to reason that at least half the viewpoint characters would be highly placed in their respective societies for optimal storytelling. 

[Inky]

Non-Kholin Radiants include:

• Kaladin
• Tien
• Szeth
• Lift
• Malata 
• Lopen
• Teft 
• Venli
• Hoid
• A lot of Skybreakers
• And presumably more on the way, we're running out of Kholins

I'm not sure I understand your point

[+Oltux72]

On 03/10/2019 at 9:09 PM, Inky said:

Non-Kholin Radiants include:

• Kaladin
• Tien
• Szeth
• Lift
• Malata 
• Lopen
• Teft 
• Venli
• Hoid
• A lot of Skybreakers
• And presumably more on the way, we're running out of Kholins

I'm not sure I understand your point

Three Kholins out of a population of dozens(?) of millions is a statistical impossibility. It means that the spren chose by political power. That is kind of violation of the principle of going by moral qualities. Whether it bothers you is a quesyion of personal preference I suppose, but the point can be made.

[+Invocation]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Three Kholins out of a population of dozens(?) of millions is a statistical impossibility. It means that the spren chose by political power. That is kind of violation of the principle of going by moral qualities. Whether it bothers you is a quesyion of personal preference I suppose, but the point can be made.

It doesn't mean they chose by political power, it means the ones in a position to be noticed by spren happened to coincide with those in political power, which makes sense due to the strain some of those very same royals felt on their morals in the course of their ruling term. It even makes sense that it started with the Alethi, since the Alethi culture is pretty much "fight fight fight" all the time, and nothing boils down a person than kill or be killed, especially for what certain spren (honorspren and highspren, mostly) were looking for. Plus, spren attract spren. More spren paying attention in a certain location, to a certain family, means more spren showing up to hang around them, and that chains to the Spiritual ripples of the bonds (notably Dalinar's bond to the Stormfather and the resulting Spiritual Adhesion ripples from that) to attract more spren, as the taboo is slowly (and probably unofficially) lifted from most spren groups.

It also only seems like they started choosing by political power because of our perspective as readers. Nale and his Skybreakers were travelling the breadth of Roshar stamping them out as they emerged, no matter where they emerged, so it wasn't solely political power that attracted them, most notably Lift and Ym. 

I'll admit to it seeming like there's a lot of Kholins, but that's just what happens when the main stage of these books takes place in deep-Kholin power areas, with several Kholins integral to what's been happening so far, between Jasnah, Renarin, Dalinar, and kind of Kaladin (he's pretty much a Kholin in all but name for the time being). We don't truly have the perspective to say that those Kholins are anything other than an unlikely lineup, and, contrary to what you initially said, is currently a statistical certainty, due to the fact that it has already happened, and stranger things have happened in real life than something like this.

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Invocation said:

It doesn't mean they chose by political power, it means the ones in a position to be noticed by spren happened to coincide with those in political power, which makes sense due to the strain some of those very same royals felt on their morals in the course of their ruling term. It even makes sense that it started with the Alethi, since the Alethi culture is pretty much "fight fight fight" all the time, and nothing boils down a person than kill or be killed, especially for what certain spren (honorspren and highspren, mostly) were looking for. Plus, spren attract spren. More spren paying attention in a certain location, to a certain family, means more spren showing up to hang around them, and that chains to the Spiritual ripples of the bonds (notably Dalinar's bond to the Stormfather and the resulting Spiritual Adhesion ripples from that) to attract more spren, as the taboo is slowly (and probably unofficially) lifted from most spren groups.

Also there are historical reasons why spren were looking at Kholinar a historical center of Radiant power.

[Aon Tia]

I think that kholins are the only exception here. Apart from them, I don’t see any nobility gaining radianthood. I don’t think there is any at all. None of the other houses of alethkar are becoming radiant. 

Dalinar becomes radiant makes sense because if stormfather wants someone to unite all humanity against voidbringers then it is logical that it would have to be someone in a position capable of achieving it. Besides we already know that one beggar I think was also watching the visions, but no one is going to pay attention to the rambling’s of a beggar 

so it makes sense that visions were given to many but only dalinar could do something about them and managed to become radiant. Also I think nightwatcher/ cultivation’s influence makes it easy for nahel bond to be formed somehow. 

Jasnah became an elsecaller because inkspren were probably logically oriented as they are, were looking for a scholar with their kind of values. And the fact that she is a kholin and a noble is a coincidence. One reason it had to be noble light eyes is I think that the level of scholarship she has and they probably wanted, requires that kind of opportunities that only a noblewomen could have. 

Renarin again I think should not be counted for he is what he himself does not know. In fact the poor boy cannot catch a break !! And who knows may be Sjanat planned it to be him because she wanted her son to be bonded with someone close to the centre of Alethi power so that she can have their ear when she desires. 

Also kholins is not the only radiant heavy family 

we have kaladins family- kaladin, tien and I have a feeling that oroden in SA arc 2 might be radiant

and davars - shallan, Helaran, who knows may be her mother was a noviatiate too and killing her was going to be her test who knows and not to mention all the other influence that they have?

also I don’t think shallan should be counted in kholins become radiants because that was literally planned by jasnah 

and I think that happened because I think people who share surges are drawn to one another

that is shallan was drawn to jasnah 

and kaladin was drawn to dalinar 

But we cannot forget all the other people who are becoming radiant

we have the entirety of bridge 4 who were all slaves! 

Kaladin 

tien

eshonai 

Lift

szeth

stump the orphanage lady

we had that cobbler

malata 

shallan was a poor light eyes women until she married into royalty 

Venli 

all the sky breakers who are not of nobility 

shallan’s squires 

and I am sure many more Are going to come who are not nobility 

also it is logical that if a shardblade is revived the one who does that is going to be noble only because you are a shardbearer to begin with. Also adolin again is going to be able to do it because he is a kholin who have shards in the first place and he happened to enter shadesmaar that allowed him to bond with maya Ona level no other shardbearer has. But I also think that he may not prove to be your average knights radiant, he like his brother may become something new something different. How I don’t know but I believe that there will be some difference there. 

 

[GoWibble]

I agree, most of the people that bonded spren weren't royalty, but royalty are more likely to bond spren (and be viewpoints)

1. They have better access to materials: many of the darkeyes, with an exception to Teft (& clan/ family), have never heard of the ideals. The nobles almost have them in their society

2. They are at the center of events/ on the main lines against Odium (in OB and later? (prob))

3. The kinds of sentient spren have similar attractions to what the lighteyes normally do or should be doing (this might be Brandon bias)

4. Nobles are also around more Investiture, if that changes anything

5. see Innovation's answer above about spren

 

 

 

 

 

On 10/3/2019 at 1:46 PM, Karger said:

 

 

 

 

On 10/3/2019 at 1:46 PM, Karger said:

 Jasnah deliberately had Shallan marry into the family because she was one(before that she was a noble but not an important one)...

Shallan was one before she married in, remember what happened to her mother?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

On 10/8/2019 at 11:29 PM, The traveller said:

 

 

 

 

On 10/8/2019 at 11:29 PM, The traveller said:

also it is logical that if a shardblade is revived the one who does that is going to be noble only because you are a shardbearer to begin with.

 

you don't revive the Blades, you summon their deadeye forms. So far, Blades cannot *easily* be revived. There are channels for those, so pls don't start that up here. 

 

 

 

 

2

On 10/3/2019 at 11:08 AM, Shaukan-son-Hasweth said:

 

 

 

 

On 10/3/2019 at 11:08 AM, Shaukan-son-Hasweth said:

The entire plot of SA after WoR just feels like a more complicated Mistborn. We have a shard that killed another shard and is bringing the apocalipse. The king and his family are just trying to unite the world against it, but politics gets in the way. I don't know what i will do when somebody ascends to Honor.
 

first of all, Honor already has a major splinter in the Stormfather so the only person to ascend would be Dalinar, who doesn't really want all of that power, and second of all: 

haters on Brandon don't belong on this thread. Questions are ok, but opinions about redundancy as a critique go somewhere else. This is for cool theories, not rhetorical attacks. SA will be good. 

 

There is the argument that if you are Radiant, then you are royalty (lighteyes)...., but that's not being asked, is it.

[Aon Tia]

@GoWibble I am mentioning the possible revival of shards because it is in direct relevence here because adolin will do it most likely And that will add another kholin radiant in the mix possibly

[GoWibble]

@The traveller I don't think that's how it works. but that's  a RAFO, for sure

[Karger]

2 hours ago, GoWibble said:

Shallan

Jasnah did not know this.  Also how is it relevant?

[GoWibble]

It's not, but I'm just trying to clear up misconceptions