Merlin Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 I just finished Oathbringer again, and after reading the part where Teft swears the Second Ideal, I'm a little confused. He says "I will protect those I hate, even if the one I hate most is myself." That's obviously different from Kaladin's Second Ideal, so I was wondering if the Ideals change person by person, not just in the Lightweavers. (sorry if that was unclear.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ he/him Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, WannabeWorldhopper said: I just finished Oathbringer again, and after reading the part where Teft swears the Second Ideal, I'm a little confused. He says "I will protect those I hate, even if the one I hate most is myself." That's obviously different from Kaladin's Second Ideal, so I was wondering if the Ideals change person by person, not just in the Lightweavers. (sorry if that was unclear.) Brandon has touched on this one WoBs before, but yes, the ideals are not all exactly the same for every person in a particular order. Each person will have a slightly different version of the same ideal, though they’re all based around the same concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 8 hours ago, StrikerEZ said: Brandon has touched on this one WoBs before, but yes, the ideals are not all exactly the same for every person in a particular order. Each person will have a slightly different version of the same ideal, though they’re all based around the same concept. Also worth noting that some Orders seem to have more personal Ideals than others, with both the Lightweavers "Truths" and the Skybreakers' having individual Dedications and Crusades, but the Windrunners we've seen all seem to be restatements of the same basic theme. Dear lord, I cannot wait to hear another Bonsmith's Oaths... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 48 minutes ago, Quantus said: Dear lord, I cannot wait to hear another Bonsmith's Oaths... Agreed. I wonder if the three bondsmiths have different concepts based on their spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilphon Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Really the fact that the specific wording isn't hugely important can be deduced from the way we're seeing Knights show up all over the world- if the words had to be exactly the same every time, only people speaking the right language would be able to do it. The idea behind the oath is important. Both Teft and Kaladin were tempted to let somebody they personally disliked come to harm despite knowing that they should be protecting that person, and the oath was about affirming that that's unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Gilphon said: Really the fact that the specific wording isn't hugely important can be deduced from the way we're seeing Knights show up all over the world- if the words had to be exactly the same every time, only people speaking the right language would be able to do it. The idea behind the oath is important. Both Teft and Kaladin were tempted to let somebody they personally disliked come to harm despite knowing that they should be protecting that person, and the oath was about affirming that that's unacceptable. I am very interested to see Lopen reach the Third Ideal. We never got to see Teft express his Second Ideal of the Windrunners, but it was probably similar to Kaladin's: I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, in the context of a physical rescue (Kaladin with the rescue of Dalinar's forces from Sadeas' abandonment). Lopen implied that he had tried really hard to speak the Second Ideal to "level up" during the Battle of Thaylen Fields to no avail, only to have his Words Accepted while casually relating that story to an injured Thaylen who'd lost his right arm. He demanded of the Stormfather, "What? NOW? Why didn't you listen earlier? We were, sure, all about to die and things!", and received the reply, "YOU WEREN'T QUITE READY." That wasn't (just) a light, comic moment: the Stormfather doesn't pull pranks or joke around. At all, never mind about Accepting Ideals. It's that Lopen's natural expression of "protecting" other people is via emotional support, preventing despair and giving hope. We saw that even as he was a one-armed water carrier for a doomed bridgerunning crew. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 I can't wait for EVERYONE in Bridge Four to speak the ideals! Wait, has anyone wondered what happened to Dabbid? That mute guy Kaladin first saved? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 58 minutes ago, WannabeWorldhopper said: I can't wait for EVERYONE in Bridge Four to speak the ideals! Wait, has anyone wondered what happened to Dabbid? That mute guy Kaladin first saved? I am hoping that as Kaladin reaches the 4th ideal all of bridge four will reach the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllNsickly he/him Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) When Kaladin said “I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right.’ I felt a resonance. When Teft said ‘I will protect even those I hate, even if the one I hate the most is Myself.’ I felt it hit me in my deepest Everything. So, I am VERY interested to hear how The Lopen speaks his 3rd Ideal. I am hoping for ‘I will protect even those I hate, If I ever find anyone I don’t like that much.’ I absolutely love Kaladin’s pro (and re gression) through the first 3 books because, well, reasons... Teft’s hits me deeper, however, and The Lopen’s is exactly where I wish I could be, because I know his is more optimistic than either Kaladin or Teft. I hope that we get to see more Windrunners Swear the 3rd Ideal: Edited September 18, 2019 by IllNsickly Seppling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 11 hours ago, IllNsickly said: I am VERY interested to hear how The Lopen speaks his 3rd Ideal. I am hoping for ‘I will protect even those I hate, If I ever find anyone I don’t like that much.’ That's just it. Who does Lopen hate? He seems to get along with everyone. Even when he was consigned to the bridge crews, he wasn't overtly bitter or angry about it. He was ridiculously cheerful and upbeat (which is obviously a kind of a front or a face for others as much as himself, which is why his Second Ideal was colored that way). The amputee soldier he was bucking up for his Second Ideal was receptive to his efforts, though. Maybe for his Third Ideal, it'll be him dealing with someone who is actively hostile and rejecting of his chipperness, insisting on wrapping him/herself in despair or self-loathing. I will protect even those who don't want to be protected, if they really need it. Plus, we still don't know how he lost his arm originally, or how it is he ended up as a slave in Sadeas' camp. Maybe it'll be something to do with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindo Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 Lopen's third Ideal: "I will protect even those who do not like pancakes" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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