Taravangian = Odium?

[Toaster Retribution]

I was eating a hamburger, and suddenly started thinking about Stormlight. It hit me that what if Taravangian picks up Odium? If Rayse dies, but Mr T takes the Shard instead, and is the villain later on. What do you guys think?

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I was eating a hamburger, and suddenly started thinking about Stormlight. It hit me that what if Taravangian picks up Odium? If Rayse dies, but Mr T takes the Shard instead, and is the villain later on. What do you guys think?

I think Taravangian is to smart to pick Odium.  See how he reacts to the knowledge that Dalinar will be Odium's champion.  He feals that it is better to be dead then to have that kind of emotion.  He might pick it as a sacrifice I suppose and direct the power inward or something but I do not think he will become a villain.

[Gderu]

I don't think that it fits him at all. Taravangian isn't evil, he just has an ideology that's different from the radiants. He wouldn't have enough connection to Odium to be able to pick up the shard.

[Karger]

2 minutes ago, Gderu said:

I don't think that it fits him at all. Taravangian isn't evil, he just has an ideology that's different from the radiants. He wouldn't have enough connection to Odium to be able to pick up the shard.

You don't need an ideological connection to pick up a shard. 

Mistborn Spoiler

Spoiler

Ati was a kind and generous man prior to picking up Ruin

 

[Gderu]

Spoiler

But Ruin can be seen as change.

Odium can be seen as passion, but Taravangian isn't a very passionate man. To the contrary, he would like to be perfectly logical.

[Karger]

7 minutes ago, Gderu said:

Odium can be seen as passion, but Taravangian isn't a very passionate man. To the contrary, he would like to be perfectly logical.

Taravangian is quite passionate.  Humans are not creatures without emotions.  Did you not hear his declaration to Dalinar.  "And I would weep every day for having done it."  Do you think the actions he is undertaking are not reflective of an individual who deeply feels?  Even Odium finds his passion impressive.  Taravangian would like to be perfectly logical but he can't be.  This is part of what makes him so interesting.

[Nnatel]

Yeah, I agree Taravangian is too smart for something like that. But taking Odium as a way to save humans sounds very much like him.

...wait, doesn't it sound more like Honor than Odium? What if he picks up what is left of Honor, it would be even easier as it already doesn't have a vessel. (just a sudden thought as I am writing this, I'm not sure if it makes any sense) 

But, what I was going to say was in response to Mistborn.

Spoiler

Yeah, that was why Ati was able to pick it. He saw Ruin as change and it was actually the best option for Scadrial. Ruin could have become even worse than Odium and didn't only because of Ati. If Odium would be picked by someone seeing it as Passion, it could possibly save Roshar. 

 

[Truthless of Shinovar]

Alright, this probably belongs in the crack pot theory thread, but how about this:

Dalinar picks up Odium. He definitely got the Connection; he spent years slaughtering people, and was pretty passionate about it. He’s had personal experiences with Odium, probably more than most other people living on Roshar. I could see this as a cool twist that Sanderson would add, just because it would be so unexpected! I’d imagine that this would happen later, like maybe book 8 or something, and the next book would be about trying to save Dalinar before his self is warped by the Odium’s intent. This could happen, maybe, by Dalinar also picking up Honor and Cultivation, maybe becoming a new shard: Unity!

Edited June 2, 2019 by Truthless of Shinovar

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Dalinar picks up Odium. He definitely got the Connection; he spent years slaughtering people, and was pretty passionate about it. He’s had personal experiences with Odium, probably more than most other people living on Roshar. I could see this as a cool twist that Sanderson would add, just because it would be so unexpected! I’d imagine that this would happen later, like maybe book 8 or something, and the next book would be about trying to save Dalinar before his self is warped by the Odium’s intent. This could happen, maybe, by Dalinar also picking up Honor and Cultivation, maybe becoming a new shard: Unity!

Dalinar has already rejected Odium.  I can't see him picking it up now.  Cultivation still holds her own power so you would have to convince her to give it up and Honor has been splintered exactly how is Dalinar going to fix that?

3 hours ago, Nnatel said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Evidence please?

[Nnatel]

@KargerI remember reading it somewhere.

Okay, found this WoB but I'm not sure if it is the one I was thinking of. It doesn't say anything on part of what I said, so I'm not that sure anymore. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/317/#e10334

 

Alvaro Lopez

 

Why Odium is stronger and worst evil than Ruin?

 

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

 

One reason is that Ruin had a person in control of it who, for many years, fought against the impulse to destroy--and in the end, channeled it toward entropy and decay, necessary elements of the universe. Odium represents something else entirely.

 

Quote

 

 

[Truthless of Shinovar]

17 hours ago, Karger said:

Dalinar has already rejected Odium.  I can't see him picking it up now.  Cultivation still holds her own power so you would have to convince her to give it up and Honor has been splintered exactly how is Dalinar going to fix that?

I’d imagine that it would be a bit like Kelsier and Ruin. Sure, Kelsier hates Ruin and wouldn’t pick up his Shard, but could he? Definitely, he’s an aspect of Ruin. My guess is that there is a way to fix splintering, but people just don’t know it yet, and perhaps the story takes a dark turn as the gang decides to kill Cultivation to save Dalinar/prevent Odium 2.0

Edited June 3, 2019 by Truthless of Shinovar

[Use the Falchion]

5 hours ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Alright, this probably belongs in the crack pot theory thread, but how about this:

Dalinar picks up Odium. He definitely got the Connection; he spent years slaughtering people, and was pretty passionate about it. He’s had personal experiences with Odium, probably more than most other people living on Roshar. I could see this as a cool twist that Sanderson would add, just because it would be so unexpected! I’d imagine that this would happen later, like maybe book 8 or something, and the next book would be about trying to save Dalinar before his self is warped by the Odium’s intent. This could happen, maybe, by Dalinar also picking up Honor and Cultivation, maybe becoming a new shard: Unity!

That would be a gut punch almost like no other. I love it! Sign me up for this theory!

Maybe they think it's about separating Odium from Dalinar, but then they learn that because Dalinar has been so invested with Honor's power, all they need to do is push enough slivers of Honor into Dalinar so that the shards essentially fuse. In this scenario I can see Cultivation giving up her shard so that the plan can go through. 

[Wander89]

On ‎02‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 1:54 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

I was eating a hamburger, and suddenly started thinking about Stormlight. It hit me that what if Taravangian picks up Odium? If Rayse dies, but Mr T takes the Shard instead, and is the villain later on. What do you guys think?

Now I've got the idea of Mr T from the A Team being Odium.

 

"I pity the fool who does not see me as the most dangerous of the sixteen!"

[Weltall]

23 hours ago, Karger said:

He might pick it as a sacrifice I suppose and direct the power inward or something but I do not think he will become a villain.

FYI, the intents of the Shards don't work that way as they're by definition not inwardly-directed.

Quote

Chaos

It's a little odd that Preservation would inherently give up its power to fuel Allomancy, because you'd think he would preserve himself, you know? Does that make sense?

Brandon Sanderson

Preservation, as a Shard, is about preserving life, people, and the like. Not about self. No more than Ruin is about destroying self, or Cultivation is about growing herself.

/r/fantasy AMA 2011 (Aug. 31, 2011)

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Weltall

[Julio]

 

Quote

He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context.

Context like... only hating people that were dishonorable? I really like this theory. I could absolutely, 100% see Dalinar ascending to both Honor and Odium, giving Odium context... if Harmony had not already done the same thing. Because Brandon has already done that once, it seems highly unlikely he'd do it again here.

But Odum/Honor would work so, so much better than Ruin/Preservation. Ruin and Preservation are diametrically opposed: Honor and Odium do not need to be. 

But Brandon already wrote that. But, that letter would be such good foreshadowing. 

[Arith Matic]

Mistborn Secret history and ending spoilers

Spoiler

When Kelsier took up preservation, he had to use a certain type of thing that gave you some connection to the shard, the same thing that Sazed used.  You don't need to be ideologically connected, but you probably have to be spiritually connected in some way.

 

[Karger]

41 minutes ago, Julio said:

But Odum/Honor would work so, so much better than Ruin/Preservation. Ruin and Preservation are diametrically opposed: Honor and Odium do not need to be. 

I can see that making a shard of Vengeance or conquest but I am not sure how a Honor+Odium combo is much better then what we have now.

[WhiteLeeopard]

So, was your hamburguer a normal hamburguer or was it made of "chicken" to inspire your Roshar thoughts? 

Honor+Odium sounds even more terrifying than Odium by itself. It sounds like every religious fanatic that ever existed, not only are they full of hate for everyone and spread division but they also are full of the self-rightness of their own mission. Adding Cultivation doesn't honestly fix things enough imo. Religious fanatic that learns, plans and wants to make people grow...probably according to their image? Ehhh, not a huge improvement here. 

 

[Karger]

1 minute ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Honor+Odium sounds even more terrifying than Odium by itself. It sounds like every religious fanatic that ever existed, not only are they full of hate for everyone and spread division but they also are full of the self-rightness of their own mission. Adding Cultivation doesn't honestly fix things enough imo. Religious fanatic that learns, plans and wants to make people grow...probably according to their image? Ehhh, not a huge improvement here. 

To be fair Honor is about bonds not self rightness.  However that is probably how the combo would go.  Perhaps we would get the shard of Arrogance.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Karger

[Nnatel]

13 minutes ago, Karger said:

To be fair Honor is about bonds not self rightness. 

That's right, but I think that it can be also considered as staying true to what you believe is right. 

But generally this combo sounds like the most terrible idea ever. And as at first Arrogance didn't sound right to me, now I'm going to agree. 

And adding Cultivation would make things worse, definitely. It would give this Shard ability to adapt to every situation. It gets only scarier... 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Nnatel

[Karger]

Just now, Nnatel said:

And adding Cultivation would make things worse, definitely. It would give this Shard ability to adapt to every situation. It gets only scarier... 

Actually I am thinking that it would adapt others as in his forces.

[Kaymyth]

On 6/2/2019 at 1:44 PM, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Alright, this probably belongs in the crack pot theory thread, but how about this:

Dalinar picks up Odium. He definitely got the Connection; he spent years slaughtering people, and was pretty passionate about it. He’s had personal experiences with Odium, probably more than most other people living on Roshar. I could see this as a cool twist that Sanderson would add, just because it would be so unexpected! I’d imagine that this would happen later, like maybe book 8 or something, and the next book would be about trying to save Dalinar before his self is warped by the Odium’s intent. This could happen, maybe, by Dalinar also picking up Honor and Cultivation, maybe becoming a new shard: Unity!

I presented a variation on this theory at JordanCon this year on panels. I should probably do full write-up on it so people know exactly how whackadoodle I am.

[Truthless of Shinovar]

I really hope it happens