Could Honor be Bound?

[Emerald_Cross]

Theoretically, in a nahel bond, with a human?

[Karger he/him]

2 hours ago, Emerald_Cross said:

Theoretically, in a nahel bond, with a human?

Honor is dead...

[Nathrangking he/him]

Just now, Karger said:

Honor is dead...

But we'll see what we can do.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

1 hour ago, RShara said:

Honor is Splintered

Yes, and it isn't just laying on the ground somewhere, which tells me that it is attached to something. Either that, or it is the secret that the Sleepless are guarding in Aimia.

[Wandering Investor]

Honor is not a spren, so I doubt it could form a nahel bond. Now, Honor is capable of granting powers in a manner that is somewhat similar to nahel bonds. That's what he did with the Heralds, he granted a portion of him power to them, forming a connection/bond sortaish, granting the honorblades, immortality, and maybe some other stuff. The spren copied what Honor did with the Heralds, which is why their default form is a sword, they're copying the honorblades. Its not the same, as Honor doesn't need to be near the Heralds for it to work, plus the Heralds can go back on their oaths and Honor can die, but the bond doesn't appear to break, at least the immortality and honorblades are still in play.

[Inky]

40 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

Honor is not a spren, so I doubt it could form a nahel bond. Now, Honor is capable of granting powers in a manner that is somewhat similar to nahel bonds. That's what he did with the Heralds, he granted a portion of him power to them, forming a connection/bond sortaish, granting the honorblades, immortality, and maybe some other stuff. The spren copied what Honor did with the Heralds, which is why their default form is a sword, they're copying the honorblades. Its not the same, as Honor doesn't need to be near the Heralds for it to work, plus the Heralds can go back on their oaths and Honor can die, but the bond doesn't appear to break, at least the immortality and honorblades are still in play.

I don't think the Oathpact breaking was what specifically killed Honor. It was slow, and I think Odium still killed him directly

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

If my theory that the Stormfather is now Honor's vessel proves to be true, then someone already has bonded it.

Dalinar to the Stormfather in OB

"Honor was alive then. We are something new. His remnants, your soul, my will."

Edited May 8, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident

[RShara she/her]

34 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

If my theory that the Stormfather is now Honor's vessel proves to be true, then someone already has bonded it.

Dalinar to the Stormfather in OB

"Honor was alive then. We are something new. His remnants, your soul, my will."

The Stormfather isn't Honor's Vessel, because Honor is Splintered and doesn't have a Vessel. The Stormfather merged with Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow, thus is partially a Sliver of Honor, along with being a Splinter and a Cognitive Shadow.

4 hours ago, Emerald_Cross said:

Theoretically, in a nahel bond, with a human?

I don't think that would work very well. A proper Shard has a Vessel already, aka a physical form, and I don't know that a separate bond with another physical being would be possible.

[+robardin he/him]

When the Stormfather states that there can only ever be three Bondsmiths, bonded to himself and his two siblings, Dalinar guesses "...Cultivation?" as one of the other two, and the Stormfather just laughs. So, no. A Shard cannot be bonded to in a nahel bond, as a Shard is way, way beyond being a simple spren; basically, bonding a Shard is to Ascend to become its Vessel.

[Wandering Investor]

2 hours ago, Inky said:

I don't think the Oathpact breaking was what specifically killed Honor. It was slow, and I think Odium still killed him directly

It wasn't, those were stated as two different things that could potentially impact the bond, but neither had any apparent effect.

 

3 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Yes, and it isn't just laying on the ground somewhere, which tells me that it is attached to something. Either that, or it is the secret that the Sleepless are guarding in Aimia.

The shard itself is located mostly in the spiritual realm, so you're not going to find it lying on the ground physically. Plus Odium took steps to ensure the shard couldn't be connected to again, at least not easily.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

21 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

The shard itself is located mostly in the spiritual realm, so you're not going to find it lying on the ground physically. Plus Odium took steps to ensure the shard couldn't be connected to again, at least not easily.

The only instance of vessels dying that we have seen in the books (Leras, Ati and Vin) all resulted in their Shards appearing in the physical realm. In Leras case we only see it from Kelsier's point of view in the cognitive realm, but one of the epigraphs from Sazed talks about how Leras' corpse fell into the physical realm just like Ati and Vin's.

Other instances of vessel death have happened off page, but Brandon has provided quite a lot of info via WoB and Arcanum.

Rayse put Devotion and Dominion in Sel's cognitive realm after he killed Aona and Skai and the result was the Dor. The fact that he had to move them there in the first place rather than destroying them or scattering them across the Cosmere suggests that it is not possible. Additionally, his need to put them somewhere means that they were physically present, otherwise he could have just walked away.

Ambition was killed near Threnody, but not on the planet, and we don't know where the Shard is currently. Given that the planet was basically turned into a nightmarish hellscape afterwards, I would guess that it ended up on the surface.

As to Odium deciding what happened to Honor after Tanavast died. Leras chose a successor when Ruin killed him. Kelsier chose a successor when he gave up the Shard. I see no reason that Tanavast could not do the same with his Shard.

Edited May 9, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident

[Calderis he/him]

A spren cannot be a Shards Vessels, a the Stormfather specifically is not Honor's. 

Quote

Questioner

What happens when a... spren picks up a Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

What do you mean picks up a Shard? Shardblade or Shard of Adonalsium?

Questioner

Picks up a Shard of Adonalsium.

Brandon Sanderson

A spren is a Shard of Adonalsium so it just--

Questioner

Picks up one of the big ones like could a spren do the same thing that Kelsier's spirit did after he--

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitantly* It's like you're asking if electricity can gain a charge of electricity and get electrified. Does that make sense? I mean-- It's a question that doesn't make a lot of sense.

If a shard were to somehow-- They would just combine into a bigger shard and get larger-- if that makes sense?

Questioner

The foundation of that question was I thought that maybe the Stormfather spren was basically doing what Kelsier's spirit did.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, um *sighs* Not really... It's really a not really There's some similarities but it's a not really. It's not quite a RAFO though. more of a--

Questioner

More of a "doesn't quite work that way".

Brandon Sanderson

--doesn't quite work that way but you're thinking along the right lines?

Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)

 

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

@Calderis I guess vessel is the wrong word then. I still think that Honor left his power with the Stormfather. Nothing in the WoB contradicts it, and the line below implies that it is possible.

Quote

*hesitantly* It's like you're asking if electricity can gain a charge of electricity and get electrified. Does that make sense? I mean-- It's a question that doesn't make a lot of sense.

If a shard were to somehow-- They would just combine into a bigger shard and get larger-- if that makes sense?

On another note. This is probably the wrong place to argue my theory, as it is not the topic of this thread. I will see myself out.