Glaedr Firnen he/him Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 I'm just going to do away with the spoilers box here, because it would literally contain everything after this sentence throughout the entire thread. This is a question of theory validity. I have evidence to back it up, but I want to see whether or not it's at all realistic. There are also a few things that I'm not quite sure how they would line up. I'll just dive straight into it: Shardblades and Shardplate are made of aluminum. I know it might sound ridiculous, or maybe just random, but there is some evidence to back it up. In mistborn era two, it becomes very obvious that aluminum is an investiture block. People wearing aluminum can't be manipulated emotionally, and, more importantly to this theory, aluminum can't be pushed or pulled on. This is so important because the surge of gravitation is so similar to the external physical metals. Now, if aluminum can't be pushed or pulled, and is similar to gravitation, it would stand to reason that gravitation would not affect aluminum either. Now, in Oathbringer, we have evidence of Szeth's claim, very early on in the series, that shardplate can't be lashed. When the Fused are carrying of Moash's plate, they have to carry it by two ropes instead of lashing it directly. This suggests, separate to what happens in Words of Radiance, which is an entirely separate matter, albeit which also supports this theory, that lashings simply don't work on shardplate. There must be a connection of some sort. Then there are two pieces of evidence to be found in Words of Radiance, as well. The first is to be found when Kaladin and the other bridgemen are training with and against shardblades under Zahel, they comment that it is heavier than they expected, and Zahel explains that while it is much heavier than what others may have implied, it is still much lighter than a sword of it's size should be. He says that a sword that looks like it has two or three times as much steel in it would be heavier, not lighter. Therein lies the reason. Shardblades are so light because they are not made of steel at all, but rather out of a tempered form of aluminum. The second is during Adolin's disadvantage duel, when Kaladin, after making use of the shardplate helm as a glove for blocking blades, it 'eats' his stormlight. Kaladin lurches to a halt when he suddenly finds it gone. This is extremely similar to the occurrence in Mistborn: The Final Empire, when Vin is forced to burn a nugget of aluminum. She finds her investiture has vanished, similar to the realization that Kaladin comes to in this scene. In both cases, the evidence shows that aluminum drains investiture into itself. If shardplate can also accomplish it, there is a possibility that it is due to it's nature as aluminum, not because it needs it to perform self-repair. What I still don't understand, however, is how plate and blades can have effects using investiture, despite blocking it. It might have something to do with the fact that Aluminum can be used for feruchemy, which is another bit that I don't understand. If anyone has any ideas about this, please let me know. I'd love to have a full theory with solid evidence on all sides to get a WoB on this one.
HSuperLee Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 I do not believe this could be the case. For one, shardplate is heavy. Like, super heavy. If it was the same material as shardblades, it shouldn't weigh more than normal armor, but when the breastplate is shattered, the weight of the arms and legs prevents people from even standing. During the scene where Kaladin puts the helmet on his arm, it seems like his stormlight is drawn into the armor and strengthens it, preventing it from cracking after a hit that should have damaged it. (I believe this is stated directly in the book, but I have a physical copy and thus can't quickly look it up (Calderis, I'd appreciate some backup.)) It's been implied many times that the reason for shards resistence to the surges is a result of being heavily invested objects, such as in this WoB: Quote Questioner Could a Forger, like, reforge a Shardplate to look differently? Brandon Sanderson So here's the thing... Um, yes, *but*... Anything that is Invested is-- resists all of the forms of Investiture. And the level of Investiture in it determines how hard it is. Forging is one of these things that-- It's very hard to reforge things that are Invested. Not impossible though. So yes, *but*... Do you see what I'm saying? There's that-- there's a pretty significant "but" on that one. Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016) From a purely engineering standpoint, aluminum simply doesn't have the properties we've seen in shards. Aluminum armor would dent when given a hard blow, not crack, and it certainly would never shatter. Aluminum also has a decent amount of give, which shardblades seem to be lacking. Granted, there was that time Adolin used one as a springboard, but even that seems to imply a good deal more elastic plasticity than I would expect from aluminum (though it is worth noting I am not a material engineer.) Finally, as you said, we've never seen aluminum actually display magical effects. Feruchemy is the only investiture that really seems to affect it at all, and even that is in a minor and low investiture way. Ultimately, while and interesting idea, I do not believe this theory is plausible.
RShara she/her Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 The thing is, aluminum can't be affected at all by Pushes and Pulls, whereas Shardblades can, it just takes a huge amount of power. Like, lerasium level Mistborn with duralumin and lots of steel. But it's still theoretically possible, whereas you can't at all with aluminum. Quote Elayne Startracker Can Shardblades be pulled and pushed? Brandon Sanderson It would take a LOT of power to do so. Conventionally, no. General Twitter 2017 (Oct. 20, 2017) In addition, while Shardblades look a little like aluminum, Shardplate is a dark metallic gray, very unlike aluminum. Aluminum also can be manipulated physically, i.e. melted, broken, cut, etc. Shardblades can't and Shardplate can't. Aluminum is fairly light, I think it'd still be heavier than what a Shardblade is implied to be. If you've ever picked up a solid chunk of aluminum, it's still pretty hefty. I don't think a normal person could pick up a 6 ft blade made of aluminum easily. The helmet sucked out Kaladin's Stormlight because it was trying to repair itself. Shardplate does that automatically--feeds off of Stormlight to repair itself. Normally, the Stormlight is in gems, and it breaks the gems as it regenerates. I don't think it has anything to do with how aluminum wipes investiture reserves. As a side note, the theory is that Renarin's Shardblade's metal looks like it's folded in layers is because there's some Odium investiture mixed in with the rest of the godmetal. And as an unrelated note, spoiler tags aren't needed for any stormlight stories since it's been more than 6-9 months since any were released.
Weltall Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) Shardblades are Honor and Cultivation's Investiture in solid form. In other words, the metal is the Stormlight Archive equivalent to atium and lerasium, a fantasy metal rather than a real one. We don't know the proper name for it but given the naming conventions of other godmetals we've taken to calling the metal associated with Honor 'Tanavastium' for now. The actual metal that makes up any given Shardblade is going to be a mix of the two godmetals, depending on the spren. Edited March 23, 2019 by Weltall 1
Calderis he/him Posted March 23, 2019 Posted March 23, 2019 If Shardblades were aluminum they could not be dismissed or summoned. Plate could not explode and be regrown. And as I posted in the other thread, shardblades are light because of the nature of the Investiture they are composed of, just as Nightblood is extra heavy because of the Investiture within it. Quote Herowannabe I noticed that shardblades are unnaturally light but Nightblood is unnaturally heavy. Brandon Sanderson That is correct. Herowannabe Care to expound on that? Brandon Sanderson Nightblood is built around the same principles as shardblades, if shardblades were... broken? I mean he is-- You'll notice dark smoke that goes down rather than light smoke that goes up, and things like this. So, yeah, they are built on the same principles but in some ways opposites. Firefight release party (Jan. 5, 2015)
earthexile Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 An aluminium blade would not hold up against iron and steel in battle, it would get smashed into scrap. Shardblades are truly indestructible as far as we know.
CrazyRioter she/her Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 Nightblood could destroy one, but Nightblood...is Nightblood.
Karger he/him Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 54 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said: Nightblood could destroy one, but Nightblood...is Nightblood. Could he? Do we have confirmation?
Glaedr Firnen he/him Posted March 27, 2019 Author Posted March 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Karger said: Could he? Do we have confirmation? We'll have to add that to the list of questions to ask Brandon.
Stormgate he/him Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 There are two types of things that resist Investiture use: aluminum and highly Invested items. In the Wax and Wayne books, it is mentioned a few times that metalminds are harder to manipulate with Allomancy. In WoR, shield fabrials are introduced that charge the shield with so much Investiture it resists being cut by Shardblades. It is significant, I think, that the only thing Nightblood absolutely cannot break is the aluminum sheath. I've written on aluminum in the past. My personal favorite theory is that it was used to (Cosmere spoilers) Spoiler Cause the Shattering of Adonalsium I don't know if I needed a spoiler, but this is the SA forum. In any case, aluminum is weird, but it works in what seems to be the opposite way of Shardblades and Plate.
Wander89 he/him Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 I agree that they are made of a different base metal however I currently believe it is one we have yet to see. I believe that the origin of these is something that we have yet to see and will be a big reveal. It may be later in the series with a *crossover* but I see it playing a big factor later on.
Inky Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 It's an alloy of Honor and Cultivation's Godmetals. That's about it.
Weltall Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Wander89 said: I agree that they are made of a different base metal however I currently believe it is one we have yet to see. I believe that the origin of these is something that we have yet to see and will be a big reveal. It may be later in the series with a *crossover* but I see it playing a big factor later on. Brandon has already explained this. We know they're made from godmetal, the exact composition of any given blade is going to depend on the spren but it will be a mixture of whatever the canon names for Honor and Cultivation's metals winds up being. This isn't going to involve cross-Cosmere crossover or any huge reveal. In addition to the WoB I already posted, there is a paraphrase you can read here where Brandon confirmed that shardblades are godmetal.
Stormgate he/him Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 Honestly, I really want to know what would happen if a Misborn tried to burn a piece of Shardplate.
Weltall Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Stormgate said: Honestly, I really want to know what would happen if a Misborn tried to burn a piece of Shardplate. Under normal circumstances, nothing would happen. An allomancer doesn' have the right Connection to do anything with the metal. Quote word_thief What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/plate? Brandon Sanderson A shardblade is invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen… General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013) Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Can a Mistborn burn any physical form of Investiture? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No. Well-- possible with work, but naturally, no. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Edited March 28, 2019 by Weltall
Inky Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Weltall said: Under normal circumstances, nothing would happen. An allomancer doesn' have the right Connection to do anything with the metal. Yep! But a Mistborn Surgebinder might work
Weltall Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Inky said: Yep! But a Mistborn Surgebinder might work Hence the qualifier of 'normal' circumstances.
Inky Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Weltall said: Hence the qualifier of 'normal' circumstances. Fair
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