worldbuilding Fantasy World planning

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

(AHHHHHHH trying to keep up with pace of discussion is hard!) 

Are we saying that Innates have no special abilities beyond being able to see spirit webs? I like that idea! Keeps it from getting too cluttered with magic people.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Steel Inquisitive

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

Just now, Steel Inquisitive said:

(AHHHHHHH trying to keep up with pace of discussion is hard!) 

Are we saying that Innates have no special abilities beyond being able to see spirit webs? I like that idea! Keeps it from getting to cluttered with magic people.

Plus it allows then to be a literal 'translator' between the magics. Someone who can see and understand the spirit web explaining things to people who can't, but know how to use what the innates see to their advantage. 

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

Where we're at now.(?)

1. Ritual. This one allows anyone with enough knowledge to make changes to the world around them through symbols that are written. People can only make changes within the same realm. What I mean by that, is that you can move physical atoms around the Physical Realm to form new molecules and move connections around the Spirit Realm to form new connections. You can not cross between the realms. You couldn't change an objects cognitive aspect to affect it's physical one, but you could move the atoms of the object around to change it in the Physical Realm.
2. Innate. People who are born with the ability to see spirit webs and instinctively know what some parts of the web mean and what the correct symbols for those specific parts are. 
3. Natural. This one requires many people to have an noticeable affect. Natural magic is a result of the increased entanglement of the Cognitive Realm and the Physical Realm. It allows people to change the world around them through "group think". When enough people believe something, the world will change to match their beliefs. This allows for horrid monsters, nasty spirits and the occasional god to form. There are few/no restrictions on this system as there are few/no restrictions on the human imagination.  

Just to clarify, Ritual magic is still usable by everyone?

Does everyone agree with this (brief) summary? If yes, then what's the fuel going to be? If no, then I suspect you'll tell me why 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Steel Inquisitive
Sigh.....

[kenod]

5 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Where we're at now.(?)

1. Ritual. This one allows anyone with enough knowledge to make changes to the world around them through symbols that are written. People can only make changes within the same realm. What I mean by that, is that you can move physical atoms around the Physical Realm to form new molecules and move connections around the Spirit Realm to form new connections. You can not cross between the realms. You couldn't change an objects cognitive aspect to affect it's physical one, but you could move the atoms of the object around to change it in the Physical Realm.
2. Innate. People who are born with the ability to see spirit webs and instinctively know what some parts of the web mean and what the correct symbols for those specific parts are. 
3. Natural. This one requires many people to have an noticeable affect. Natural magic is a result of the increased entanglement of the Cognitive Realm and the Physical Realm. It allows people to change the world around them through "group think". When enough people believe something, the world will change to match their beliefs. This allows for horrid monsters, nasty spirits and the occasional god to form. There are few/no restrictions on this system as there are few/no restrictions on the human imagination.  

Just to clarify, Ritual magic is still usable by everyone?

Does everyone agree with this (brief) summary? If yes, then what's the fuel going to be? If no, then I suspect you'll tell me why 

It seems good, though I do expect Ritual magic to have a number of hacks and tricks for using magic in combat situations, ways that allow for magic usage in a way that doesn't require you to spend 20 minutes drawing every time you try to cast a spell.

Also does the perfectly visualizing symbols to cast them still exist as an alternative to drawing them?

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

4 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Where we're at now.(?)

1. Ritual. This one allows anyone with enough knowledge to make changes to the world around them through symbols that are written. People can only make changes within the same realm. What I mean by that, is that you can move physical atoms around the Physical Realm to form new molecules and move connections around the Spirit Realm to form new connections. You can not cross between the realms. You couldn't change an objects cognitive aspect to affect it's physical one, but you could move the atoms of the object around to change it in the Physical Realm.
2. Innate. People who are born with the ability to see spirit webs and instinctively know what some parts of the web mean and what the correct symbols for those specific parts are. 
3. Natural. This one requires many people to have an noticeable affect. Natural magic is a result of the increased entanglement of the Cognitive Realm and the Physical Realm. It allows people to change the world around them through "group think". When enough people believe something, the world will change to match their beliefs. This allows for horrid monsters, nasty spirits and the occasional god to form. There are few/no restrictions on this system as there are few/no restrictions on the human imagination.  

Just to clarify, Ritual magic is still usable by everyone?

Does everyone agree with this (brief) summary? If yes, then what's the fuel going to be? If no, then I suspect you'll tell me why 

I think this is pretty good. As for fuel... crystals could form in hotspots offer decades and have lots of fuel, and there could be a weed that's common but has much less fuel than crystals, and you could maybe form connections to people or animals over time that also can act as fuel for magic. 

[MacThorstenson he/him]

4 minutes ago, kenod said:

lso does the perfectly visualizing symbols to cast them still exist as an alternative to drawing them?

Yes, I believe so. 

I also agree with the summary. 

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

Yep summary looks good to me!

[xinoehp512 he/him]

How does Innate connect to Natural

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

Just now, xinoehp512 said:

How does Innate connect to Natural

I imagine being able to see the spirit web of something as it changes would be useful. Maybe they would be able to better predict those sort of changes?

[+Ark1002]

37 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Where we're at now.(?)

1. Ritual. This one allows anyone with enough knowledge to make changes to the world around them through symbols that are written. People can only make changes within the same realm. What I mean by that, is that you can move physical atoms around the Physical Realm to form new molecules and move connections around the Spirit Realm to form new connections. You can not cross between the realms. You couldn't change an objects cognitive aspect to affect it's physical one, but you could move the atoms of the object around to change it in the Physical Realm.
2. Innate. People who are born with the ability to see spirit webs and instinctively know what some parts of the web mean and what the correct symbols for those specific parts are. 
3. Natural. This one requires many people to have an noticeable affect. Natural magic is a result of the increased entanglement of the Cognitive Realm and the Physical Realm. It allows people to change the world around them through "group think". When enough people believe something, the world will change to match their beliefs. This allows for horrid monsters, nasty spirits and the occasional god to form. There are few/no restrictions on this system as there are few/no restrictions on the human imagination.  

Just to clarify, Ritual magic is still usable by everyone?

Does everyone agree with this (brief) summary? If yes, then what's the fuel going to be? If no, then I suspect you'll tell me why 

I like this.

I haven't been keeping up with this discussion, there will be a summary when the RP thread is posted, correct?

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

Just now, Arky-boi said:

I haven't been keeping up with this discussion, there will be a summary when the RP thread is posted, correct?

I sure hope so! I can only barely keep track of the discussion

[+Ark1002]

Just now, Steel Inquisitive said:

I sure hope so! I can only barely keep track of the discussion

While I barely keep track of the rest of the Alleyverse.

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

20 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

How does Innate connect to Natural

They are able to see the spirit web and how it changes- Natural- along with having an innate understand of what is going on and the symbols connected to that- Ritual. Literally, a translator.

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

55 minutes ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

They are able to see the spirit web and how it changes- Natural- along with having an innate understand of what is going on and the symbols connected to that- Ritual. Literally, a translator.

Works for me!

But seriously, fuel? I don't care too much.... I just don't want to loose momentum. 

[xinoehp512 he/him]

3 hours ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

They are able to see the spirit web and how it changes- Natural- along with having an innate understand of what is going on and the symbols connected to that- Ritual. Literally, a translator.

I feel that it's too connected to Ritual. Maybe they can (in addition to seeing the spiritweb) also see the currents of magic that flow through the world.

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

11 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

I feel that it's too connected to Ritual. Maybe they can (in addition to seeing the spiritweb) also see the currents of magic that flow through the world.

I believe that's what we're saying. They would be able to see changes to people/things so if one started to get affected with Natural magic they would know.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Yes, but they could see all investiture. Including active investiture.

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

Wouldn't that make them blind with information overload? Everything is investiture...... I'm not sure how that would be helpful. 

[MacThorstenson he/him]

6 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Yes, but they could see all investiture. Including active investiture.

I feel like thats too much. Being able to see all active investiture is really different from just seeing parts of the spirit web.

Maybe they can see all connection? So they would be able to tell when natural magic would be taking affect and when something plainly natural would be happening. Like they could tell if the magical forest is due to a high concentration of investiture in the area, the result of ritual magic messing with things, or the fact that people believe that the forest is magical.

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

25 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

I feel like thats too much. Being able to see all active investiture is really different from just seeing parts of the spirit web.

Maybe they can see all connection? So they would be able to tell when natural magic would be taking affect and when something plainly natural would be happening. Like they could tell if the magical forest is due to a high concentration of investiture in the area, the result of ritual magic messing with things, or the fact that people believe that the forest is magical.

Imagine it like changing pairs of glasses. They can choose what to see- they are born with eyes that see the whole world, but they instinctively filter out what isn't necessary or wanted. If you're farsighted, you enhance your close vision and weaken your farsightedness with your glasses. Right? It's like that. They can weaken their sight and focus on what they want to see.

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

1 hour ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

Imagine it like changing pairs of glasses. They can choose what to see- they are born with eyes that see the whole world, but they instinctively filter out what isn't necessary or wanted. If you're farsighted, you enhance your close vision and weaken your farsightedness with your glasses. Right? It's like that. They can weaken their sight and focus on what they want to see.

As a wearer of glasses, it's kind of like this, but my eyes are literally deformed so perhaps I'm the wrong person to discuss eye troubles with.  

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

If it makes sense to you guys then I'm good with it. I'll need the concept explained more later. 

Do we even need fuel at this point? Natural magic isn't going to need it. The Innates just see the spirit realm..... not sure why they would need any. Ritual magic could still use it..... but that's not as big a deal anymore as it won't be relative to most combat/fast paced scenes. (As in, when were actually RPing, people will always have enough fuel for the rituals......)

[kenod]

3 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

If it makes sense to you guys then I'm good with it. I'll need the concept explained more later. 

Do we even need fuel at this point? Natural magic isn't going to need it. The Innates just see the spirit realm..... not sure why they would need any. Ritual magic could still use it..... but that's not as big a deal anymore as it won't be relative to most combat/fast paced scenes. (As in, when were actually RPing, people will always have enough fuel for the rituals......)

You kind of need to either have a fuel source or some specific limits to the size of Rituals, otherwise someone could create a Ritual destroying a whole planet or city by removing all bonds between atoms in specific area.

Edit:
There's also the fact that you need a way to explain why your symbols don't immediately take effect while writing them, or how you can note down symbols to keep records of spells. Fuel works nicely for this, since you can have all the symbols you want, but they won't do anything without fuel.

Edited March 7, 2019 by kenod

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

2 hours ago, kenod said:

You kind of need to either have a fuel source or some specific limits to the size of Rituals, otherwise someone could create a Ritual destroying a whole planet or city by removing all bonds between atoms in specific area.

Edit:
There's also the fact that you need a way to explain why your symbols don't immediately take effect while writing them, or how you can note down symbols to keep records of spells. Fuel works nicely for this, since you can have all the symbols you want, but they won't do anything without fuel.

I agree. Fuel is needed. Natural magic is fueled by people, Innates are fueled by their own power, and rituals are fueled by the energy in the world around them. None of them are particularly powerful or interesting unless you give them access to a larger, more stable fuel source. Sure, rituals can make dimly glowing circles with no outside help, but almost anything else needs some kind of fuel. 

Spoiler

For that descriptor, think of Innates as a pipe that all of the magic in the world is flowing through. If they want, they can add 'filters' to block certain things from their sight, and let them focus on specific objects. They start off with them all active and blocking all magic, and they have access to a large number of 'filters'; additionally, it takes a lot of effort and energy on their part to change the 'filters'. Like said above- if that works with you- Innates are fueled by the magic their own body creates, so to change 'filters' needs a lot of built-up energy. Because this energy comes from their own body, it would be harder for them to access external magic like crystals and such the way rituals do, and Natural magic would completely lack the ability to access it at all- since it is the reason such fuels form (perhaps because they are slightly different energies, like water and oil?)- which limits their ability to switch their 'filters'.

No idea if the above would fly, but I thought it was an interesting idea.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Saying that Innates need fuel is a bit misleading. Innates have a natural ability; all the needed investiture is already in their spiritweb.

Ritual should need fuel, though. Does anyone have problems with the crystals idea?