High prince of geeks Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Exactly what the title says above, I really like this pairing, and would simply like to be informed why other people don't, or do. My personal reasons include the fact almost every time Shallen is described from Kaladin's point of view he either thinks that she is beautiful, or denying it simply because she's a lighteye's. Now that he is a lighteye's himself I'd like to sea how their relationship will blossom (or not) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintybliss Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I also like this pairing, and I love the idea of a love triangle between Adolin, Shallin, and Kaladin, as long as it's done right. I really like Shallin but I often feel that her story just isn't as interesting to read as Kaladin's, which may have turned off some people. It's getting better now, but Kaladin's just seemed more... dramatic and enthralling. Anyways, I have also thought about this question! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I've always thought a pairing between Shallan and Kaladin wouldn't work because Shallan gains nothing from him. Whereas Adolin is related to the king and is heir to a huge Highprince province/kingdom?. Also I find most love triangles to be boring and unnecessary. That's just my opinion, obviously. Though if Brandon decided to go down that path he would be one of the few authors to manage it in a believable way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Swimmingly Posted May 20, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Because we're all so used to Brandon defying genre conventions that, confronted with the idea of the lead woman and lead man getting together romantically, we laugh snobbishly while waving our champagne-soaked Cuban cigars. They don't even light properly. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 On any other forum I would probably assume this is a troll, but something about here makes me more generous about ascribing purer intent to oddly written questions... There's been a huge amount of stuff written on the forums about this very topic, with the biggest thread likely being http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6519-shallans-relationship/ tl;dr is that the top reason for most people who dislike Shalladin for disliking it is that it seems too 'obvious' (Shallan and Kaladin are easy to interpret at this point of being the main protagonists, and it seems too 'easy' to just pair them together). There many, many other arguments (e.g. some people prefer Shallan and Adolin, which generally if not absolutely makes Shalladin unlikely) but that's the main one that seems to come up. Note that disliking or liking a pairing is (very, very, very) different from finding textual support for a pairing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terisen Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 It's not that I don't like it, per se, but it would feel like another "people from different social classes fall in love" trope that is the subject of pretty much every romantic movie/novel (I'm looking at you, Nicholas Sparks). I think it would be refreshing to see something a bit different like Shallan and Adolin together with no major twists. That said, I wouldn't be overly upset if Kaladin and Shallan wound up together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrono Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I've seen two main camps of people who don't support the Shalladin Ship. If there are any more that I haven't noticed, please help me out and post them below. Thank you. 1. People genuinely want Shallan and Adolin together because they like their chemistry and want Adolin to finally get the girl for once. And they feel it would be the nice solution to the whole love triangle problem. Which leads into... 2. People just don't want love triangles. I see this as the most common camp. Even among my friends, this seems to be the common consensus: I asked my friend whether he was for Shalladin or Shadolin, and he responded Shadolin. I asked him why, and he paused before giving the explanation above. Love triangles have been so overdone and so dramatized that people are just sick of them. Even I, a Shalladin Shipper, don't want this to be a traditional love triangle, though Brandon has stated that he won't take it in that direction (as in, traditional love triangle, not no love triangle at all). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaellok Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) I like Shallan far too much to wish Kaladin on her romantically. Despite my personal hang-ups with Kaladin post-WoR (which are irrelevant), think of it this way: Shallan is Tien, and Kaladin is Heleran. Kaladin with Syl makes far more sense in my mind (she is far more forgiving of him killing her than I am), but thinking of who (if anyone) he may end up with romantically just feels odd to me. Post WoK, it made sense, but then WoR happened. He obviously still has more issues to work through, plus the end of the world to survive. It's more likely that he'll have a group of close friends than wind up romantically with any of the major characters we've seen so far, I think. Shallan deserves someone who makes her happy--and Adolin just happens to do this. Adolin is also pretty great in his own right. Oh, and the two happen to be betrothed already, so, that pairing just makes sense to me. Edited May 20, 2014 by kaellok 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsworn Panda Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I think Brandon is just making space for Tarah (or maybe even Laral). He isn't a particularly good romance writer, so hopefully, no Twilight Love Triangles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Shallan's my favourite SA character currently but I'm agnostic on who she ends up with, if anyone - as long as it's interesting to read I'm happy. I think either Adolin or Kaladin could work... and either could fail. Depends how the characters develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry31j97 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I think this love triangle is going to be more like AoL than traditional like say twilight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Kaladin in killed Shallan's brother, so there's that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firiel Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I mostly dislike it for the cliche factor. There are several elements to that: 1. Love triangles are obnoxious to me. They can be done terribly (Twilight) and more acceptably (Hunger Games), but ultimately, I find them tiresome. Generally, IRL, if you are in a true "love triangle," you shouldn't be with either of the people. I certainly wouldn't want to end up with someone who barely chose me over someone else... 2. MMC and FMC meet and hate each other at first but then fall in luuuuurve. No thanks. I also do genuinely like Adolin and Shallan, and I feel like if that relationship fails, I'd like the failure to be explored in the context of that relationship which is difficult to do if another person is directly responsible for its downfall. Like, them not working out because they realize that their goals and personalities are ultimately incompatible is so much more realistic than them not working out because Shallan sees that Kaladin is more dark, brooding, and intellectual than Adolin and that she wants that instead of what Adolin has to offer. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) After my hopes and dreams were crushed in Harry Potter, I'm not shipping any characters ever again. If I don't hope characters will get together, I can't be disappointed when they don't. (Although I think Brandon would make it more satisfying and believable, and not lead me to believe that my favorite character will spend her life in an unhappy marriage.) Edit: My upvote got sniped! I'm not trying to restart the Hermione ship war I swear! Edited May 20, 2014 by EMTrevor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 After my hopes and dreams were crushed in Harry Potter, I'm not shipping any characters ever again. That would support shipping Kaladin and Shallan. In both cases, the main hero ends up with the redhead 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Aside from the obvious: People are different Shipping can have a measure of projection People like the unexpected I think this is related to one of Shallan's next challenges. In WoR she has learned to morph and become different people. While I believe that she will always be somewhat fluid (possibly why lightweavers have only the one oath), she will need to define her core self better in order to progress. She seems to be physically attracted to Adolin and enjoy his playful, positive personality. She seems to admire Kaladin's depth and determination. I can easily see her choosing to go one way or the other, choosing yet a third or never choosing one in a definitive way. Shallan has mentored with Jasnah and Tyn. She could easily choose to learn from Mraize or Iyatil, then eventually Shallash or even Wit. Similarly, she could experience and learn from connecting with Adolin and Kaladin and decide to stay with either or neither. I don't think Brandon will do a love triangle for the drama of it, but he could do it because that is how the character needs to evolve. Kaladin seems more uniquely attracted and her ability to lighten his moods clearly would work well for him, but it is not clear to me that Shallan needs more than friendship from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracknut Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Because that's too easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Whereas I think it is very likely to be explored, I do not like the Shallan/Kaladin's pairing. Common arguments for them to share a relationship are based on their bonding moment in the chasm which I read differently. Kaladin has been broken and his way of coping has been, so far, to be grumpy, moody, snappy and utterly unhappy. He strongly believes he cannot be anything else up until he meets Shallan who is as broken as he, but somehow manages to remain a positive relatively happy person. She reminds him of Tien who always manages to lift his spirit. She also helps him see he does not have to remain this unpleasant/unlikable person simply because he was broken: he can move on. Kaladin is attracted to her, of course, as she is different and she made him see things in a different way. Shallan is obviously attracted to Kaladin uncensored wit. However, I do not believe they would fit in a long term relationship as I believe Shallan needs someone to take care of her. She was alone all her life, forced to care for her family and she never had anyone to do the same. She probably is not ready to accept this, but I believe it is what would make her, ultimately happy. Kaladin cannot be this person as he is not a caring, but a protecting person. Kaladin will never turn into a loverboy like Adolin who would probably go unhook the moon for the women he loves. In the long run, his grumpy nature would unnerve happy-go-lucky Shallan. I am more an Shallan/Adolin shipper. I really liked their interactions in the book. I thought they were really cute and it was sweet to watch Adolin fall in love with weird mouthy Shallan. I believe Adolin is a good match for her as he is a positively happy playful person who would take care of her immensely. She would be a good match for him as she is smart, but not arrogant. She sometimes talk to him like a teacher (and he appears to enjoy it) and I believe she could force him to become a more learned person. She can also let her tongue loose with him as, despite being a high ranked lighteye, he does not mind such things. And they have the hair thing going on However, I also believe Brandon will make this relationship end in book 3. My theories are that either Shallan won't have much time for Adolin with all her "occupations" and Adolin will interpret this badly or that Adolin will have to leave and Shallan will refuse to follow. In all cases, Adolin will see his heart broken and I believe it will part of his character development. Shalladin may be explore during this breakup and I wouldn't mind, but I would really love it Adolin and Shallan would come back together at a later time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I can't relate to people who make stupid decisions based on "love". I will be sorely disappointed in Brandon if he decides to use such a tacky and overplayed idea to create tension in his work. He is so much of a better writer than that. I read fantasy, not romance. Keep it subtle and away from the plot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terisen Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I can't relate to people who make stupid decisions based on "love". I will be sorely disappointed in Brandon if he decides to use such a tacky and overplayed idea to create tension in his work. He is so much of a better writer than that. I read fantasy, not romance. Keep it subtle and away from the plot. I personally feel that most people, at least at some point in their lives, make stupid decisions based on love. Heck, I know I have. I would agree that the situations in a lot of books, tv series, movies, etc, are overwrought, but I don't think the would preclude having characters such as these make some poor judgement calls because of their feelings. In my experience, that's true to life for most of us and, even though it's fantasy, I'd want the stories to ring true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Fool Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Ha! "Twilight Love Triangle?" At least holding Stormlight doesn't make Kaladin sparkle. And we can safely say that it's almost certain that Kaladin and Shallan won't have a baby girl that Adolin falls in love with. And even if the love triangle becomes a thing, at least it will still be a better love story than Kvothe and Denna from Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicle. Edited May 21, 2014 by Weeping Liar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeployParachute Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Oh boy, oh boy, a multiquote post: I've always thought a pairing between Shallan and Kaladin wouldn't work because Shallan gains nothing from him. Whereas Adolin is related to the king and is heir to a huge Highprince province/kingdom?. My interpretation of Shallan was not that she was some shallow vapid girl who ultimately will make all her decisions related to love based on what financial or political security they have to offer her. Then again, to each his/her own. I like Shallan far too much to wish Kaladin on her romantically. Despite my personal hang-ups with Kaladin post-WoR (which are irrelevant), think of it this way: Shallan is Tien, and Kaladin is Heleran. Kaladin with Syl makes far more sense in my mind (she is far more forgiving of him killing her than I am), but thinking of who (if anyone) he may end up with romantically just feels odd to me. Post WoK, it made sense, but then WoR happened. He obviously still has more issues to work through, plus the end of the world to survive. It's more likely that he'll have a group of close friends than wind up romantically with any of the major characters we've seen so far, I think. Shallan deserves someone who makes her happy--and Adolin just happens to do this. Adolin is also pretty great in his own right. Oh, and the two happen to be betrothed already, so, that pairing just makes sense to me. Pretty sure that Shallan has her own issues she needs to work through, and survival of the apocalypse is something she shares with everyone else on Roshar now. Just because Kaladin and Shallan are one way now, doesn't mean that they will not change (something i would expect in some of my favorite novels: character growth). While I agree that Shallan should definitely end up with someone that makes her happy, her own definition or realization of what makes her happy is likely going to change, and you have seen the beginnings of this in WoR as she gets more in touch with her inner feelings. I would argue that what she needs in conjunction with happiness (a very broad term) is someone who can challenge her in a constructive way. She doesn't strike me as someone who would accept anything less. Also, Adolin could just as easily change into someone that Shallan does not like in a romantic sense. Again, I like my characters dynamic. I mostly dislike it for the cliche factor. There are several elements to that: 1. Love triangles are obnoxious to me. They can be done terribly (Twilight) and more acceptably (Hunger Games), but ultimately, I find them tiresome. Generally, IRL, if you are in a true "love triangle," you shouldn't be with either of the people. I certainly wouldn't want to end up with someone who barely chose me over someone else... 2. MMC and FMC meet and hate each other at first but then fall in luuuuurve. No thanks. I also do genuinely like Adolin and Shallan, and I feel like if that relationship fails, I'd like the failure to be explored in the context of that relationship which is difficult to do if another person is directly responsible for its downfall. Like, them not working out because they realize that their goals and personalities are ultimately incompatible is so much more realistic than them not working out because Shallan sees that Kaladin is more dark, brooding, and intellectual than Adolin and that she wants that instead of what Adolin has to offer. I don't think we will see a love triangle. I think Shallan will realize quite quickly that Adolin is not right for her, and will end things before she ever contemplates Kaladin. There could even be another person in between them. Also, her and Adolin (prince charming and princess...assassin?) getting together long term seems like a trope to me more so than the Kaladin ship. But hey, opinions... To your last point, sometimes it is our relationships with people that help us identify what exactly it is we want or even who we are. Why shouldn't Shallan be able to decide or learn what exactly it is she likes and change her opinion to match? It is certainly her right to decide that what Adolin has to "offer" no longer meets with what she wants, and does it matter then that it is a comparison with an alternative to Adolin that helps her to make that decision? However, I do not believe they would fit in a long term relationship as I believe Shallan needs someone to take care of her. She was alone all her life, forced to care for her family and she never had anyone to do the same. She probably is not ready to accept this, but I believe it is what would make her, ultimately happy. Kaladin cannot be this person as he is not a caring, but a protecting person. Kaladin will never turn into a loverboy like Adolin who would probably go unhook the moon for the women he loves. In the long run, his grumpy nature would unnerve happy-go-lucky Shallan. Hmm...Shallan needing someone ultimately to take care of her. It is my opinion that her character arc is currently going in the opposite direction. She, as a girl who has spent her entire life being sheltered and protected and "cared for" is just now starting to discover just how independent she can be. That's not to say that she won't need to rely on others at all, quite the contrary. I agree with you that Shallan needs someone who can be her emotional support, since she has spent so much time emotionally supporting others, and Kaladin certainly doesn't fit that mold as he is currently. That doesn't mean that his character growth can't take him in that direction example: Kaladin is so used to drawing emotional support from others, that it would be a nice character challenge for him to finally have to provide that to someone else. As for Adolin and Shallan, I see their romance as very fitting for who they are right now. The only problem is is that one (or both) are still growing as individuals, and the "works right now" has a way of changing if the two people don't grow together. Shallan especially is much younger and still in the process of discovering herself. She will either grow towards Adolin, or away from him, and in my opinion, the text evidence indicates the latter. I feel that poor Adolin is doomed simply from the fact that he was with her first, which is a bummer, cause I really like him and want to see him end up with a woman who can meet his needs and makes him happy as well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrono Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I can't relate to people who make stupid decisions based on "love". I get that you're talking about romantic love, but Dalinar is seriously guilty on this charge if you're talking about familial love. It's been noted several times that he's made some pretty poor choices regarding Elhokar (the whole Silversmiths issue was the first issue that came to mind). People will aways make stupid decisions based on love. How much attention is put on those stupid decisions is crucial here if we want to avoid the overdramatized love stories that everyone detests these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Hmm...Shallan needing someone ultimately to take care of her. It is my opinion that her character arc is currently going in the opposite direction. She, as a girl who has spent her entire life being sheltered and protected and "cared for" is just now starting to discover just how independent she can be. That's not to say that she won't need to rely on others at all, quite the contrary. I agree with you that Shallan needs someone who can be her emotional support, since she has spent so much time emotionally supporting others, and Kaladin certainly doesn't fit that mold as he is currently. That doesn't mean that his character growth can't take him in that direction example: Kaladin is so used to drawing emotional support from others, that it would be a nice character challenge for him to finally have to provide that to someone else. As for Adolin and Shallan, I see their romance as very fitting for who they are right now. The only problem is is that one (or both) are still growing as individuals, and the "works right now" has a way of changing if the two people don't grow together. Shallan especially is much younger and still in the process of discovering herself. She will either grow towards Adolin, or away from him, and in my opinion, the text evidence indicates the latter. I feel that poor Adolin is doomed simply from the fact that he was with her first, which is a bummer, cause I really like him and want to see him end up with a woman who can meet his needs and makes him happy as well. I meant caring on the emotional side, not physical. I believe Adolin, once he finds the right one, will be a very loving and attentive husband, which is precisely what I believe Shallan needs. She may not know it yet, but I still think it is what would make her happy. It is true however they will most likely grow apart in the next book, which is sad since I liked their dynamic. I am still hoping they may go back together or that Adolin may end up courting her for years, despite all odds, much like his father did. He deserves some nice women he loves, that would care for who he really is as a person and not as a title or a name. It will be very sad to see him heartbroken when the relationship ends abruptly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jag519 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I kinda BroTP Kal and Shal. I could also see that couple and Kal being a golden trio. haaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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