Jasnah V Kaladin

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Kaladin notes that the fused have trouble changing direction which implies that they move in straight lines so all Jasnah would have to do would be to would be to cut directly in front of where the used was going to be a much less difficult task.  We see Shallahn summon a wall that does pretty much the same thing.

The thugs both are discreet objects in Shadesmar pretty easy to pick out.  What we are trying to see is if Jasnah can nail down the space in an area well enough for her to soulcast the air around Kaladin who we have seen can change directions on a dime.

 

She was not pinpointing the Fused she was seeing the direction the fused were coming from by looking into shadesmar and seeing the spren run from them and their voidlight and just conjuring up the wall of oil once she juged their speed and direction.  It was impressive timing but not any great feat of accuracy more of a precision thing again.

The fused was close enough that Navani called to Jasnah in warning and fear. The book says she soulcasted it directly in front of the fused. Your argument is that because of kaladin flying, the disturbed air would prevent soulcasting, when in this instance it did not. What Shallan did was different. She summoned the objects aspect into the cognitive realm using stormlight, and all the beads came together to form that. That was not actual soulcasting.

 

edit: also consider this. She soulcasted a sheet of oil. If you open a trap door that leads to a container of water, how long does it take for that water to plummet to the ground? So that means that fused had to be close enough to hit that oil before it started to fall to the ground. And the oil did hit the ground because jasnah made a point of soulcasting it away to smoke after. So it would not magically just hang in the air

 

The scene I am referring to is the thug steps up to her with a knife and swings it at her. She reaches up, touches his chest, and transforms him to fire. My point is the speed of soulcasting. He was actively swinging the knife at her, yet she was able to transform him before he finished the swing. 

My point is line of sight is not required. You do not have to be looking directly at, or even see your target to soulcast it. Same stands with the two thugs running away from her. She closed her eyes, raised her hand, and twin bolts went in opposite directions hitting them both, turning them to smoke at the same time. 

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Kaladin as has been noted is incredibly resilient and highly invested so he would be basically impossible to soulcast.  Also trying that kind of move would leave Jasnah stranded for quite some time in shadesmar potentially in the ocean.

As it is heavily hinted Jasnah is further along in her oaths than Kaladin, Jasnah would be more invested and potentially could hold more stormlight than him. 

58 minutes ago, Calderis said:

We have no idea the difficulty involved in Soulcasting a person, let alone someone infused. Kaladin would be no more resilient than anyone else unless he were holding stormlight, and we've seen her soulcast people before. 

As to her being stranded... She survived it before 

Very true

54 minutes ago, Karger said:

Jasnah mentions that the thrill filled soldiers were much easier to soulcast then normal which implies that yes the mentality of the individual does matter.

Last time she appeared on land not in what would probably be the ocean.

Finally why would Kaladin not have stormlight he always make sure to.  A radiant without stormlight is not like a soldier being without a weapon something that Kaladin makes sure never to be.

The thrill filled soldiers were possessed by spren. That says to me their "identity" was already subverted. That would make it easier to soulcast them to me,

I believe @Calderis was referring to the first time Jasnah soulcasted in the castle which resulted her falling into a sea of beads. She had not even begun bonding ivory yet (or seemed to have just begun), yet she was able to keep her mind focused and exert control over the realm to create a raft to stand on. 

33 minutes ago, Karger said:

We don't know what was on the other side when she came back (maybe she hired a ship) and I think that Kaladin would by reflex suck in stormlight once he sensed someone touching his soul.  You also ignored my other assertion that the mind of the individual matters.  Shallah's lightweaving doesn't stick to Kaladin long term even if he wants it to regardless of weather he uses stormlight.

Regarding shallan's lightweaving has to do with investiture interfering with investiture. Shallan was using a small amount tied to a gemstone. Theoretically if she used enough stormlight she would overwhelm his. Same stands for Jasnah. Brandon has been quoted in saying that Jasnah has been a radiant longer than any other character. Kaladin is at the 3rd oath, Shallan is at the 4th. Potentially Jasnah is at the 4th or maybe even the 5th. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Calderis]

Alright. Let me explain in a bit more detail.

First stormlight concerns. I fully believe that Jasnah is at the 4th oath. 

First we have this. 

Quote

“Then maybe we can just call the wardship finished, eh?” Shallan said. “I mean, I’m a full Radiant now.”
“Radiant, yes,” Jasnah said. “Full? Where’s your armor?”
“Um … armor?”

Dalinar's visions share nothing of how Shardplate is created, and at this point in the storyline they have yet to open the gem archive, which contains (as far as I'm aware) the only in story reference linking plate to an oath. 

Yet Jasnah considers it part of progressing. 

Then we have this. 

Quote

As they approached the end of the alleyway, another body smashed into the wall right by the opening. Gripping his Shardblade, Adolin peeked around the corner, expecting to find another stone monster like the one that had climbed into the Ancient Ward.
Instead, he found only Jasnah Kholin, looking completely nonplussed. A glow faded around her, different from the smoke of her Stormlight. Like geometric shapes outlining her …

A body thrown with no Soulcasting performed, and no blade dead limbs mentioned. Plate would provide that strength. 

And finally this WoB 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

*inaudible* Are they getting Shardplate anytime soon?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

That is a Read And Find Out, unfortunately... There are hints that-- if you look, there are certain people that it's implied already do have it. But I'm not gonna delve into that for another book or two.

Oathbringer Edinburgh signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

So yes, I think she has plate (which is an unrelated advantage in its own right) and as @Pathfinder says, as such I believe that Jasnah is at the 4th Oath.

With every level of progress we've seen enhanced ability and efficiency with stormlight. Even if Jasnah isn't able to hold more than Kaladin, what she has will last her longer. 

Secondly, the sea of beads. 

Jasnah has more experience from time bonded and practicing Soulcasting, to her extended Shadesmar excursion, than any living non-herald Surgebinder. 

We've seen her manifest a raft like platform with Shallan, and I'm sure she could do so easily. Additionally, we've seen manifestation of Cognitive objects elsewhere in the Cosmere, and that required no Investiture expenditure at all. 

Add in Pathfinder example of her first experience with shadesmar, and I think Jasnah would be fine, even in the sea of beads. 

Finally, Soulcasting. 

We've seen Jasnah soulcast people, at range at that, Kaladin may be more difficult to soulcast, but I don't think more difficult equals impossible, and if she waited to strike, that additional benefit could be negated entirely. 

As to Shallan's lightweaving... Yes it targeted Kaladin, but it was not tied to him. I'm surprised that no one has asked exactly why that failed yet, because I don't see why it should have. That said, lightweaving uses a minimal amount of stormlight to maintain an illusion, which is why it's so quiet and doesn't alert the screamers in Kholinar. I don't think comparing those two situations is in any way equivalent. 

All of that on the table, this is still purely speculative as we have absolutely no clue how Soulcasting a person works to begin with. I highly doubt that Jasnah convinced those men in the alley to turn into smoke, Crystal and Fire. 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

43 minutes ago, Calderis said:

As to Shallan's lightweaving... Yes it targeted Kaladin, but it was not tied to him. I'm surprised that no one has asked exactly why that failed yet, because I don't see why it should have.

I assumed that he sucked some light out of the gemstone without meaning to.

[Calderis]

7 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I assumed that he sucked some light out of the gemstone without meaning to.

ha. Always overlook the simple answers. That's ridiculously brilliant. 

Edit: just checked. No word on if the sphere was dun or not. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Calderis

[RShara]

16 minutes ago, Calderis said:

ha. Always overlook the simple answers. That's ridiculously brilliant. 

Edit: just checked. No word on if the sphere was dun or not. 

It's at the end of the next chapter.

Quote

He went back to the mansion and forced himself to chat with some of the guards at the lighteyed tent, though he learned nothing, and his brands made something of a stir among them. Adolin and Elhokar finally emerged, their illusions intact. So what was wrong with Kaladin’s? The sphere Shallan had given him was still infused.

 

[Calderis]

Thank you. I knew I remembered something. So yeah, not just a drained sphere. 

Still, wonder what did it. The other illusions on him never failed. 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

@RShara@Calderis So much for that idea. Is it possible that he sucked in the Stormlight that made up the Illusion? I don't think we've seen anyone take back Stormlight from an Illusion that wasn't theirs, so I have my doubts.

[RShara]

Let's not derail this thread, though

[SwordNimiForPresident]

Just now, RShara said:

Let's not derail this thread, though

Good point.

[Karger]

21 hours ago, Calderis said:

All of that on the table, this is still purely speculative as we have absolutely no clue how Soulcasting a person works to begin with. I highly doubt that Jasnah convinced those men in the alley to turn into smoke, Crystal and Fire. 

I think it has something to do with her will overpowering theirs.

[CosmicSieve]

Soulcasting is so overpowered I can't see Jasnah not winning any fight-- well, unless someone sneaks up on her while she's sleeping like on the boat. 

With Soulcasting, she can literally make anything out of thin air, turn anything into thin air, or turn anything into anything else . She can also do it at a distance, and even by proxy. She can directly Soulcast people into other substances. 

If you ask me, Soulcasting in boring with its lack of restrictions. Perhaps when other Radiants reach Jasnah's level their powers will be just as overpowered, but I think Kaladin would need a x100 power boost at his fourth ideal to match her.

[Calderis]

@CosmicSieve Soulcast gs limitation is in its cost most likely... Which the Perp in Thaylen city conveniently removed.

I don't think Jasnah can be judged by that. I still think it's OP as hell, but I don't think she'll be reshaping the world around her without a care in most circumstances. 

[galendo]

On 2/22/2019 at 4:03 PM, Calderis said:

We have no idea the difficulty involved in Soulcasting a person, let alone someone infused. Kaladin would be no more resilient than anyone else unless he were holding stormlight, and we've seen her soulcast people before.

Are you sure that a KR wouldn't be harder to affect than your average person?  My (admittedly limited) understanding of what's going on is that the spren and the Radiant are sort of growing to be part of one another in a significant fashion, which is why a KR breaking his Oaths literally kills the spren.  And we know that Blades and Plate are effectively immune to surgebinding, so I'd think that some of that resistance would carry over to the Radiant as well.

I'm sure that holding Stormlight would make them even harder to Soulcast, but I'd think they'd have some passive resistance regardless.  They certainly have some supernatural abilities (like Shallan's photographic memories and Jasnah's direction sense) even without Stormlight, so I'd think they must be a bit more Invested than your average person, Stormlight or no.

 

Blasted double-posting.  Not sure why my computer's doing this.

[Calderis]

@galendo OK, read the whole thing, because the beginning makes it sound like just outright Soulcasting a Radiant is harder, but he backpedals and says that because the power is coming from somewhere else, it's not a significant difference. 

Spoilered for Mistborn stuff

Spoiler

Blightsong

Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, investiture resists investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right?

Questioner

Is a Mistborn invested?

Brandon Sanderson

The Mistborn, how their burning the metal, you're right. They are not specifically invested when they are not burning. When the investiture becomes active, the yes. Before, no, you're right on that.

Blightsong

So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was invested, but because he had the potential to use investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Over time using the magic will invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the spirit web. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the spiritual realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder.

Questioner

Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yea. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

So unless their infused, I doubt that the difference is going to be noticeable. 

As I've said many times, I don't think the merger of souls is a literal mingling of Investiture. Neither is what was ripped out if the Spren. That's all Connection. 

As such, I really don't think there's going to be a major difference unless they're infused. Just like an Allomancer shouldn't be harder unless they're burning metals. 

[Gasper]

On 2/21/2019 at 1:29 PM, robardin said:

She can turn people directly into greasy smoke, fire, or crystal. And has done so, multiple times. That's terrifying.

I'm sure it's harder (maybe impossible?) to Soulcast a person who's full of Investiture, i.e., if Kaladin held a lot of Stormlight. But given enough Stormlight herself, based on what we saw at Thaylen Fields, she could just turn the air around Kaladin into stone and trap him until he ran out. If it were form-fitting enough of a stone wrapping, even summoning Syl as a Blade wouldn't leave him enough room to carve his way out.

Granted, the prioximity of the Spiritual and Cognitive Realms at Thaylen Fields may have enhanced her skillset in particular, but every time I re-read those parts of Oathbringer I seriously think she's the most dangerous Radiant of them all, and not just because she is likely to be the most advanced in Ideals of any on Team Dalinar. (Since Nalan is a Skybreaker of the Fifth Ideal.)

Jasnah is the most dangerous Radiant, but not because of her powers. She sees what the others do not and is willing to act on it, even if people like Kaladin will not act on it. She does not have the same moral and ethical limitations as the other Radiants, combine that with high intelligence and you get someone who is next to unstoppable. Sure, Kaladin could beat her in a 1v1 fight, but she will win the long term conflict because she is willing to wage total war and Kaladin is not.

[WhiteEmporer]

Bear in mind that much of Jasnah's most impressive displays of soulcasting are at the battle of Thaylen city, when the three realms are closer. It's not going to be quite that easy on a normal day. 

While aluminum does resist investiture, I'm not convinced it would hold up to a shardblade. 

And from an author's view, both characters have been set up as pretty formidable, so if they ever do go at it, he'll probably want it to be pretty close. 

Oh, here's a question: does Kaladin get to bring his squires to the fight?

[Calderis]

12 minutes ago, WhiteEmporer said:

While aluminum does resist investiture, I'm not convinced it would hold up to a shardblade

It stands up to Nightblood... 

[Pathfinder]

4 hours ago, WhiteEmporer said:

Bear in mind that much of Jasnah's most impressive displays of soulcasting are at the battle of Thaylen city, when the three realms are closer. It's not going to be quite that easy on a normal day. 

While aluminum does resist investiture, I'm not convinced it would hold up to a shardblade. 

And from an author's view, both characters have been set up as pretty formidable, so if they ever do go at it, he'll probably want it to be pretty close. 

Oh, here's a question: does Kaladin get to bring his squires to the fight?

We see the level of Jasnah's proficiency at soulcasting outside that occurrence. As mentioned earlier she can soulcast multiple normal people from opposite directions. She can soulcast fine details out of a large piece by inscribing words on a piece of paper via soulcasting. She can also soulcast a large boulder, where the cracking of the stone was only so she could continue to pretend that she was using a fabrial and not her own power. So I do not think she would normally be as limited as you imply. 

I would have to check but I do believe we have WoB that Aluminum would block a shardblade. Just it is still a sword, so the aluminum would have to be thick enough/durable enough to take a blow from a sword.

If Kaladin can bring his squires in, I assume Jasnah could bring hers as well? Windrunners are not the only ones that can get squires, just they are more numerous/powerful than typical squires. I see no reason why Jasnah could not also potentially end up with squires herself. 

edit: that makes you wonder if Kaladin brought his squires, and then was encased in an aluminum box, wouldn't all the squires then lose their powers?

Edited February 25, 2019 by Pathfinder

[WhiteEmporer]

Does Jasnah have squires?

Also, that's a good question about the aluminum and the squires. Does aluminum interfere with connection? That might make a difference. 

[Pathfinder]

18 hours ago, WhiteEmporer said:

Does Jasnah have squires?

Also, that's a good question about the aluminum and the squires. Does aluminum interfere with connection? That might make a difference. 

She doesn't at this time but that does not mean she is not capable of having some. Shallan has started getting squires with Vathah. We also know other orders could have them, while others potentially have none, so the potential is there. So basically I am saying if we allow Kaladin to include squires, then Jasnah should be able too. And it would not be putting things unfairly in her favor, because it specifically says Windrunner squires are more powerful than typical squires, so Kaladin would still have an edge in that. At least potentially till he is locked away in an aluminum box. 

I feel like there is a WoB that says aluminum could prevent summoning a shardblade, though I could be confusing it with the one that says a leecher actively leeching a shardbearer would prevent summoning the blade. Let me do some digging. I think even the leecher preventing summoning could imply aluminum could interfere with connection, but it would probably depend on wording and be open to interpretation. Will edit when I find them. 

edit: so I have listed below the WoB that (I have spoiled the explanation as well as all the WoB as they are referring to other books and this is in stormlight)

Spoiler

 

say a leecher can prevent a shardbearer from summoning his or her shardblade, that aluminum blocks emotional allomancy, that it stops the withering from a shade, that it would protect against a larkin, that it disrupts like a field, that it does not create atium shadows, and also the WoB regarding whether or not it could be cut by a shard blade. 

 

Questioner (paraphrased)
If a Leecher was holding a Shardbearer and burning [chromium], would the Shardbearer be able to summon their Blade?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
No.

 

Questioner
Would aluminum give an atium shadow? Like if someone threw an aluminum spear?

Brandon Sanderson
The aluminum would not give an atium shadow. Good question.

 

Questioner
Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor

Brandon Sanderson
No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts.

Questioner
So it disrupts like a field.

Brandon Sanderson
Yep.

 

FirstRyder
Could Aluminum be used to protect a Surgebinder from a larkin?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes.

havoc_mayhem
Would a larkin be able to steal Stormlight from a surgebinder wearing Shardplate? Any comments on whether Shardplate or aluminium would be more effective protection?

Brandon Sanderson
Getting through both would be relatively equal--with the problem being that Shardplate is powered by investiture, which the larkin could feed on. So aluminum is better in that specific case.

 

Kurkistan
If you're on Threnody and you get Withered by a shade, are you better off burning Allomantic aluminum, or tapping Feruchemical gold?

*laughter*

[clarification on the question]

Brandon Sanderson
They would both work pretty well. I would say if you burned aluminum, that would kind of have the effect that you are wanting it to have, which is the effect-- negating and sucking out, so it's probably safer. But the gold would work, too.

Kurkistan
So would it be fair to describe withering as a kind of cancerous Forging-

Brandon Sanderson
Sure.

Kurkistan
That just kind of slowly takes over your soul?

Brandon Sanderson
Sure.

 

Yata
Hi, the community has a [question], we have two WoBs: Shardblades can cut aluminum and Shardblades can't cut it. Which one is true?

Brandon Sanderson (Part 1/Part 2/Part 3)
Hm. Yes, I wondered last night if I'd ever answered this before. Truth is, the answer is contentious at Team Sanderson.

I've been pushing for one answer, but Peter (whom I trust) is pushing back. We will see what ends up in the books as canon.

Problem with magic like I do is sometimes you have to wait for the scientific consensus... Err on "no" for now.

Peter Ahlstrom (Part 1/Part 2/Part 3)
Oh, I think aluminum would stop Shardblades from magical cutting. But if it's too thin like foil, a sword...

...would cut it anyway. What I'm arguing is that something else that Shardblades don't cut doesn't need...

...to necessarily be made of aluminum, for various reasons.

Yata
For example Invested objects (metalmind,spike,etc) or polestones (from some SA's Quote) ?

Peter Ahlstrom
RAFO

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
If you had aluminum or silver, could someone using Gravitation or Adhesion, could they throw that? Or would they be unable to infuse it with Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Yes, they would be unable to.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Pathfinder

[SwordNimiForPresident]

If Kaladin gets to bring his Squires, Jasnah gets to bring her armies and her uncle and her cousin and her shardbearers and her artifabrians and her ward and her.. well you get the point.

[galendo]

On 2/24/2019 at 5:39 PM, Calderis said:

@galendo OK, read the whole thing, because the beginning makes it sound like just outright Soulcasting a Radiant is harder, but he backpedals and says that because the power is coming from somewhere else, it's not a significant difference. 

Spoilered for Mistborn stuff

  Hide contents

Blightsong

Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, investiture resists investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right?

Questioner

Is a Mistborn invested?

Brandon Sanderson

The Mistborn, how their burning the metal, you're right. They are not specifically invested when they are not burning. When the investiture becomes active, the yes. Before, no, you're right on that.

Blightsong

So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was invested, but because he had the potential to use investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Over time using the magic will invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the spirit web. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the spiritual realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder.

Questioner

Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yea. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

So unless their infused, I doubt that the difference is going to be noticeable. 

As I've said many times, I don't think the merger of souls is a literal mingling of Investiture. Neither is what was ripped out if the Spren. That's all Connection. 

As such, I really don't think there's going to be a major difference unless they're infused. Just like an Allomancer shouldn't be harder unless they're burning metals. 

That does rather make it seem like Radiants aren't any more Invested than normal people.  So I guess it's all the spren, though now I don't get why the spren turn into dead Blades if the Radiants break their Oaths.

Even aside from that, I'm still a bit confused.  Doesn't all magic have to come from Investure?  The Mistborn thing totally makes sense -- if they're not burning metals, they've got no magic powers.  But Radiants have powers beyond Stormlight and Surges.  Like Shallan's ability to take Memories, for instance (including the ability to see spren where others can't).  Magic power, no Stormlight required.

[Calderis]

21 minutes ago, galendo said:

That does rather make it seem like Radiants aren't any more Invested than normal people.  So I guess it's all the spren, though now I don't get why the spren turn into dead Blades if the Radiants break their Oaths.

I think it's Connection. We have a WoB that states that Connection is not Investiture itself, but a force that acts on Investiture.

Here's how I tried to explain what I think is up with Deadeyes, in regards to Adolin and reviving Maya. 

On 1/13/2019 at 1:52 PM, Calderis said:

I think what was "Ripped out" was the Physical Aspect of the Radiant themselves. Without the bond ending naturally and the spren reverting to the Cognitive being that they are supposed to be, they are left in a state that they are supposed to have a physical aspect, but lack one of their own. 

Because of this, the Investiture that composes them is redistributed into the physical realm, creating the blade, and it takes it from the only place that it can. The Cognitive Aspect of the spren itself, crippling them mentally. 

Just as a human in the Cognitive is still a living being, even when dismissed that Investiture would still be allocated for their Physical form.

The stronger the bond between Adolin and Maya becomes, the more Investiture that should be a part of her mind returns, and the more her Physical form will rely on his Physical Aspect. 

There's no Investiture "missing" from Maya in my opinion. Just misallocated. 

 

25 minutes ago, galendo said:

Even aside from that, I'm still a bit confused.  Doesn't all magic have to come from Investure?  The Mistborn thing totally makes sense -- if they're not burning metals, they've got no magic powers.  But Radiants have powers beyond Stormlight and Surges.  Like Shallan's ability to take Memories, for instance (including the ability to see spren where others can't).  Magic power, no Stormlight required

With Resonances I think the reason that stormlight isn't required has to do with the way they function. Shallan's is completely internal. She just holds a memory perfectly. With Kaladin, it's about, again, Connection. His powers create a resonance that strengthens his Connection to his friends/followers enabling them to become Squires more quickly and easily. Both are not so much a power in themselves as they are a side effect imposed on their spiritweb by using their powers. 

[Bigmikey357]

Spren are literally pieces of Investiture. Melding a literal piece of Investiture to one's Spiritweb makes one more invested than a normie. It seems obvious to me that they'd be more difficult to soulcast than a thug in an alley. YMMV of course.

If we're talking Jasnah v Kaladin at this current point in the narrative then I have no doubt she wins. More oaths spoken, more knowledgeable about her capabilities, at least in terms of Soulcasting, possibly Plate. But if we could extrapolate what happens in the future, when they both are Full Five Ideal KR, the fight becomes much more even. Jasnah isn't going to be able to soulcast him directly, and any box or restraint she can place around him gets broken once he summons Plate. She moves faster than he can with Transportation but he's more maneuverable with his Lashings. If they ever run outta Stormlight Kaladin has the advantage even if they can still summon Blade and Plate without Stormlight. Jasnah has the advantage as long as the Stormlight holds out.

Last, it depends on circumstances. Are they facing each other across a duel yard? Are they meeting across a battle line? Or is one or the other trying to be a knife in the dark? Each of those situations effect how a fight between them would go.

[Pathfinder]

46 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Spren are literally pieces of Investiture. Melding a literal piece of Investiture to one's Spiritweb makes one more invested than a normie. It seems obvious to me that they'd be more difficult to soulcast than a thug in an alley. YMMV of course.

If we're talking Jasnah v Kaladin at this current point in the narrative then I have no doubt she wins. More oaths spoken, more knowledgeable about her capabilities, at least in terms of Soulcasting, possibly Plate. But if we could extrapolate what happens in the future, when they both are Full Five Ideal KR, the fight becomes much more even. Jasnah isn't going to be able to soulcast him directly, and any box or restraint she can place around him gets broken once he summons Plate. She moves faster than he can with Transportation but he's more maneuverable with his Lashings. If they ever run outta Stormlight Kaladin has the advantage even if they can still summon Blade and Plate without Stormlight. Jasnah has the advantage as long as the Stormlight holds out.

Last, it depends on circumstances. Are they facing each other across a duel yard? Are they meeting across a battle line? Or is one or the other trying to be a knife in the dark? Each of those situations effect how a fight between them would go.

If Kaladin and Jasnah are of equal oaths, then that (potentially) means they can hold the same amount of stormlight. Shardplate can be damaged (I am referring to the radiant plate scratched and cracked by the midnight essence in Dalinar's vision). I do not think it a stretch that Jasnah could break Kaladin's armor enough, and use the rest of her stormlight to potentially get through the investiture to transform him directly. True radiant shardplate increases strength and speed, but it is still at the mercy of the one using it. Dust in the eyes, followed up by sudden obstacles to crash into while flying are still very much risks to a 5th oath Kaladin. We also know when aluminum is driven into a person that has a healing power, the wound cannot heal. Jasnah could soulcast a few barbed spears made of aluminum. After shattering some of Kaladin's armor with the trick I mentioned, she could ram them into exposed portions of his body. Kaladin would have to rip them out in order to heal from them. Given that they are barbed, ripping them out would cause even greater damage, draining Kaladin's stormlight reserve. Or even better, ram the barbed spears through Kaladin's eye holes, mincing up his brain, preventing stormlight healing, and Kal dies. 

 

Kurkistan
What would happen if you shot a thug with an aluminum bullet or stabbed him with an aluminum knife?

Brandon Sanderson
Ah, that's a good question. The wound would not be able to heal around the aluminum, but once the aluminum came out and was gone from the system, they would be okay.

Kurkistan
Wait, is that a Bloodmaker, not a Thug?

Brandon Sanderson
Oh, you're talking about Thugs?

It would work similarly, but it really wouldn't have a huge effect on them.

Kurkistan
Alright, because Peter was implying that there was some weird aluminum interaction with Thugs.

Brandon Sanderson
What was he thinking of...?

There is some weird interaction but...

Kurkistan
In the wedding scene, Wax thinks they would have aluminum bullets to deal with Thugs, and I was like, "Oh, that's a typo." And Peter was like, "Oh no it's not..."

Brandon Sanderson
No, no. That would just be-- it's like I said: healing it until the bullet is gone, it's just the same as Bloodmakers.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Pathfinder