Adolin and Mayalaran Poll

[Jofwu he/him]

I want Maya to be revived (mostly at least), and would be disappointed if she isn't. I don't feel as strongly about Adolin. I was hesitant for this at the end of Words of Radiance, but I think I'd be okay with it now.

Something I've noticed is that lots of main characters are VERY non-traditional Radiants. We've got a lot of oddballs in the mix. Lots of stuff that hasn't been seen before... First is Renarin, bonded to a spren corrupted by Sja-Anat. (maybe it's happened before, but at the very least it isn't normal) We've got Lift with a bizarre condition allowing her to get Investiture from food instead of Stormlight. We've got Dalinar who somehow managed this whole "Unity" thing, which Stormfather has never seen. We've got a few Heralds who seem like they'll be Radiants. Seems like at least one other major oddity that I'm forgetting.

This Desolation is weird.

So that said, what I'd like to see most of all is something weird between Maya and Adolin. They've certainly begun that way, considering a deadeye has never been revived. (so far as we know at least) Like maybe Maya is mostly revived by has some really unique quirks and/or limitations. Maybe Adolin only gets one Surge. Maybe he gets no Surges but he can hold Stormlight. You know what I mean. Just some kind of weird, broken state that's never been seen before.

I will say that I think it would just be weird to have Maya bond with anyone besides Adolin. Narratively, that just feels awkward. I think we place way too much emphasis on the importance of someone "fitting in" to a given Order. There's no rule saying spren can only bond with someone who doesn't "fit" their order. They might face disapproval from other spren. The human might have a more difficult time advancing through the Ideals. There's certainly obstacles in this. But Maya can bond Moash if she feels so inclined. Even if she can be revived without needing a bond (which Adolin is the only one in a position to provide), I just can't see her latching on to anyone else. Particularly just because Adolin isn't some picture-perfect Edgedancer.

[Kon-Tiki he/him]

The Edgedancers are described as incredibly graceful in and out of combat and Adolin has always been that. He's certainly nothing like Lift but I don't think Lift is traditional edgedancer material

[CrazyRioter she/her]

With regard to Adolin's fit with the Edgedancers and Maya

Quote

CrazyRioter [PENDING REVIEW]

Would Maya have wanted to bond with Adolin if she were alive?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I think so.

source

So yeah, I think that's a good hint that he fits with them. Is he an obvious candidate at first glance? Perhaps not, but I think that makes a better story.

And as for him being nothing like Lift, Well Lopen isn't much like Kaladin,and he's still bonded to an honorspren.  Besides I feel like Adolin and Lift may be more similar than it appears, something about the way they interact with people feels similar.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

From WoR Epigraphs.

"When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants."

I think Adolin checks the boxes for what we know about Edgedancers. I like that Lift is basically the antithesis of this too, nothing like subverting expectation.

[Void89 he/him]

So excuse me if I'm coming off here to strong or I used way too much sarcasm (which I mostly do), with topics I'm passionate about there is always that threat.

This is merely my opinion and how I see things so we might (probably) not agree but still I felt I had to say it, please don't feel attacked or something, but rather read it with a little sense of humor

7 hours ago, Winds Alight said:

I don't have much info about them at hand, but from what I can remember they're the most graceful of the Orders - and that's an attribute Adolin definitely has.
Healing is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think about him, but neither was it with Lift in her first chapter in WoR.
But: Adolin playes a part in healing/helping heal Shallan and Kaladin. Remember how much Kaladin hated lighteyes? Adolin (as well as Shallan) played a huge part in changing that.

Also, their Oaths are about remembering the forgotten and listening to those who are ignored.
The remembering part fits his family's background - where Dalinar forgot about Evi for a long time, Adolin always remembered her. He kept carrying her necklace as a good luck charm.
And the listening part: Adolin was the first one to actually believe Kaladin about Amaram. (The first lighteyes, that is.) I think that somehow fits.

Adolin is the most graceful person we know, cutting through Parshendi with a shardblade like butter, fighting 4 people in the arena hammering into them again and again so their plate explodes, and jumping an oponent from behind clinging on to him - never seen anything more graceful...

Yeah Kaladin hated Lighteyes because iirc they all betrayed him before, so if being a decent human being counts for "healing" the belief that every lighteyes is corrupt and cruel we should expect at least a few dozen new edgedancers in the next book.

Also the remembering part is a bit off, sorry but if my mother died 20 years ago I would remember her too, thats only natural and it's your closest relative you ever get, you literally came out of her body so forgetting that might be a valid reason to be considered a selfish bastard (which he isn't)

And the part where Dalinar forgets... not entirely his fault, there was a little something very powerful who helped a bit there with supernatural powers no less.... so him forgetting and Adolin remembering, yeah there were reasons for that.

Considering those validations, Kaladin should emerge as Honor himself at some point because:

he remembers Tien, his parents, Moash, Moash's parents, Laral, Tarah etc... also he is graceful as hell (so perfect edgedancer material)

He speaks no lies anymore (because Syl doesn't like it very much but still - so Lightweaver potential there)

He want's people to accept that Parshendi aren't the bad ones everybody thinks and bring them together (totally an apprentice Bondsmith there)

And I guess you could find a bunch of other orders who would fit him just as well.

 

The thing is if you only look hard enough you can find an excuse for every character to get accepted that doesn't make Adolin "right for the job".

 

6 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

You can’t put non magic characters in combat situations in these types of books. The two that you noted were purely political. Another good example is Dox, and we know how being in a fight worked out for him. If Adolin is going to be involved in fights in the future, he will need access to some form of magic. Any other scenario ends with him dead imo.

 

Granted, only having shardplate that makes you able to jump several times higher than you are tall, faster, and stronger combined with a blade that cuts through everything like it's butter and being trained his whole life to be good... I see how he absolutely needs magic, he will mostly fight alone if it comes to it because he is just a prince and doesn't have any friends who are radiant or squires he could borrow or anything... sooo there is no way he could survive with only that...

 

12 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

From WoR Epigraphs.

"When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants."

I think Adolin checks the boxes for what we know about Edgedancers. I like that Lift is basically the antithesis of this too, nothing like subverting expectation.

 

Sorry wait, what? Most refined? Most articulate...? Did we read the same book?

"I Adolin Kholin shat myself"

 

[Winds Alight she/her]

So, are there any arguments here as to why Adolin is the Antiedgedancer or only sarcasm?

Because I'm speaking Sarcasm 80% of the time I open my mouth, but it doesn't really strengthen your point in a discussion.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Winds Alight

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

From WoR Epigraphs.

"When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants."

I think Adolin checks the boxes for what we know about Edgedancers. I like that Lift is basically the antithesis of this too, nothing like subverting expectation.

I have always felt that Lift is an edgedancer "in progress". If she was everything an edgedancer is to be, then where is the progression? Why take any more oaths? So she will reach that point as she swears more oaths. Now having said that, I think Adolin is decently along as an edgedancer to revive Maya on the condition of an outside force (bondsmith or what have you), being the extra to restore her. I am of the opinion that the bond itself cannot heal what was already literally ripped out of her skull. So I chose other as I feel he will revive her, but will need help

Edited January 14, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Void89 he/him]

5 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

So, are there any arguments here as to why Adolin is the Antiedgedancer or only sarcasm?

 

35 minutes ago, Void89 said:

The thing is if you only look hard enough you can find an excuse for every character to get accepted that doesn't make Adolin "right for the job".

 

Never said he is the "antianything" and I already pointed out that the greatest issue I have with him being a Radiant is that it's predictable and not the least bit interesting.

He is a prince, good looking, damnation good duelist (not fighter), has a ton of money, not really struggeling with anything (even the killing of sadeas didn't really bother him, sure he was a bit worried but not more than that), apparently happily married and now he should become radiant as well? It's just boring and expected, make any character this successfull in every aspect of his life and he loses credibility.

And as I pointed out (through a lot of sarcasm) I really don't know how anybody seriously can believe that he is "graceful, refined, and (most of all) articulate".

Even Shallan is worried that if she teases him in her usual way he might break. Somebody who is articulate should be able to deal with that and not look for other words for "walking" and be surprised if the most he can think of is 2 or 3...

 

I mean point me into the right direction, maybe I'm really not seeing it - I'd be happy to be disproven (if it's something from the books, not ripped out of context and not just a feeling)

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

I like him as he is now, a no-radiant. I don't think he fits on Edgedancers 

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

24 minutes ago, Void89 said:

And as I pointed out (through a lot of sarcasm) I really don't know how anybody seriously can believe that he is "graceful, refined, and (most of all) articulate"

Graceful: one of the best duelists in the world.

Refined: likes fashion and wine houses.

Articulate: I can’t remember him breaking into any ignorant accents at any point. Is there any reason to believe the proper diction wasn’t part of his schooling as the nephew of the king of the largest nation on Roshar?

1 hour ago, Void89 said:

Sorry wait, what? Most refined? Most articulate...? Did we read the same book?

"I Adolin Kholin shat myself"

 

Sure, use the one crude thing that he said, taken completely out of context, and try to use it as a counterpoint.

Edited January 14, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I think the crudeness in that sentence was a deliberate bit of humour on his part, given the context.

 

[Void89 he/him]

42 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Graceful: one of the best duelists in the world.

Refined: likes fashion and wine houses.

Articulate: I can’t remember him breaking into any ignorant accents at any point. Is there any reason to believe the proper diction wasn’t part of his schooling as the nephew of the king of the largest nation on Roshar?

Sure, use the one crude thing that he said, taken completely out of context, and try to use it as a counterpoint.

 

Out with Janala:

"I had imagined," she said, "that a walk would involve more walking". "Hm," he said. "Yes. We'll be getting right to that soon. It'll be grand. Lots of prancing, sauntering, and, er..." "Promenading?" Yis the leatherworker offered. "Isn't that a type of drink?" Adolin asked. "Er, no, Brightlord. I'm fairly certain it's another word for walking." "Well then," Adolin said. "We'll do plenty of it too. promenading. I always love a good promenading."

Being articulate is far more than just not breaking into ignorant accents as we both should know.

With Shallan in the winehouse:

"I know you're supposed to swish the wine about and taste it and things," he whispered, "but nobody has ever explained to me what I was looking for"

Learning half the stuff that is expected of a prince doesn't give you a refined character or something of the sorts it's expected.

He's good at dueling I'll give you that, but if that's all it takes for being "graceful" I'd be really bothered tbh

 

PS: not picked the one crude thing he said to use it as a counterpoint, Adolin, if you let him talk, will give you plenty of those by his own (not crude stuff but counterpoints) -  it just was a lovely finisher imo ^^ 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Void89

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I think we might be placing too much stock in one section of one book written by one person, after the Recreance, based on hearsay. Just because somebody perceived the Edgedancers they met as "articulate and refined" doesn't mean that was actually a universal trait displayed by all Edgedancers in all situations.

[Greywatch she/her]

I mean, in my opinion, Adolin is pretty graceful where it counts; as far as being articulate goes, neither is Lift and she's 100% a confirmed Edgedancer.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

1 minute ago, Greywatch said:

I mean, in my opinion, Adolin is pretty graceful where it counts; as far as being articulate goes, neither is Lift and she's 100% a confirmed Edgedancer.

I would argue that Lift is actually deceptively articulate when she wants to be. Being articulate is about getting your point across clearly more than using fancy words IMO. Which also applies to Adolin, for that matter.

[Kon-Tiki he/him]

Lift is articulate enough for Nightblood

[equinox]

I sometimes get the feeling, that Adolin presents himself more "simple" than he really is. On the outside, he shows the cool prince in fancy clothes, but he can be quite thoughtful and smart. He brings books to Shallan to help her getting a grasp in politics, he has a keen mind for tactics in battles... He is like this kid in school that is part of the cool in-group that doesn't want to show his intelligence to his peers. BUT: He also avoids responsibilities sometimes. He needs to overcome this if he wants to proceed with Edgedancer oaths. But the same applies to Lift...

All in all, we are not often enough in his head to really understand him. 

[Winds Alight she/her]

I firmly believe that if Lift can be an Edgedancer, then Adolin can too.
Not every member of one order is exactly the same. We have four spren-bonded Windrunners so far: Kaladin, Teft, Lopen and (presumably as he said the second Ideal at the end of OB) Drehy. They are different enough ...

Adolin currently is arguably the best duelist in Alethkar, maybe on Roshar, having trained swordfighting (any maybe other weapons, I'm not sure) from a very young age. Being that good requires a lot of control over your own body and very good coordination, both of which enable a person to move very smoothly.
If that's not enough to count Adolin as "graceful" in at least the physical aspect, I don't know what does.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Winds Alight

[TequilaJack]

No. Please no. It looks like a fix for Dalinar family. 

And nobody, not even Adolin can rival Lift....the best Radiant of all time! 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

6 hours ago, TequilaJack said:

No. Please no. It looks like a fix for Dalinar family

I mean, yes, there a lot of Kholin Radiants (Dalinar, Renarin, and Jasnah [which isn’t that many in the grand scheme of how many Radiants there used to be, and how many there will probably end up being]), but that actually increases Adolin’s chances of becoming a Radiant:

Quote

Questioner

Is being a Knight Radiant at all genetic? Because you have Jasnah, Dalinar, and Renarin in the same family.

Brandon Sanderson

It is not genetic, however… Um… Families or people close to one another are more likely. It’s not genetic. So for instance, if everyone were adopted it would still have the same prevalence.

Questioner

Okay, fascinating!

Questioner

[interruption hard to hear]

Brandon Sanderson

Well, there are a couple of reasons for that. One is which, attracting the attention of a spren can mean that other spren are paying attention to that area. There are also things in the Cosmere (the shared universe of them) where people are connected spiritually. Um… and that’s part of the magic as well. So… You are more likely to become a Radiant if you know a Radiant.

source

(Emphasis added by me) So, since Adolin knows so many Radiants and is around them a lot (not even just his family but also Shallan, Kaladin, etc.), spren are more likely to bond him.

Granted, spren are probably reluctant to bond him considering he’s got Maya following him around in the CR, but Maya probably wouldn’t be very reluctant to bond him, considering it seems they’ve already started to bond in the first place.

[TequilaJack]

8 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I mean, yes, there a lot of Kholin Radiants (Dalinar, Renarin, and Jasnah [which isn’t that many in the grand scheme of how many Radiants there used to be, and how many there will probably end up being]), but that actually increases Adolin’s chances of becoming a Radiant:

(Emphasis added by me) So, since Adolin knows so many Radiants and is around them a lot (not even just his family but also Shallan, Kaladin, etc.), spren are more likely to bond him.

Granted, spren are probably reluctant to bond him considering he’s got Maya following him around in the CR, but Maya probably wouldn’t be very reluctant to bond him, considering it seems they’ve already started to bond in the first place.

Not a fan of that idea at all tbh. Radiants need to be diverse to be interesting. I hope it won't be like reading up an episode of "Keeping up with the Kholins".  

Edited January 16, 2019 by TequilaJack

[StrikerEZ he/him]

44 minutes ago, TequilaJack said:

Not a fan of that idea at all tbh. Radiants need to be diverse to be interesting. I hope it won't be like reading up an episode of "Keeping up with the Kholins".  

I mean, the Kholins are a very influential family, so, if they have people that fit any of the orders, it makes sense they would attract a lot of spren. I can totally understand your frustration, I just don’t think it’s as big of a deal. Plus, Brandon is almost certainly aware of this issue, and I’m sure he would make sure to keep the entirety of the Radiants as diverse as possible. Right now, the Radiants are almost all mostly Kholins. However, once the orders have started to reach their normal sizes, the Kholins will be just a small drop in the bucket of Radiants.

Edit: Noooooo, I wasted my 2,000th post!

Edited January 16, 2019 by StrikerEZ

[TequilaJack]

Nobody gets the joke 

 

And that was my 100th post too!

Edited January 16, 2019 by TequilaJack

[StrikerEZ he/him]

6 minutes ago, TequilaJack said:

Nobody gets the joke 

 

And that was my 100th post too!

I got the joke, I just chose to ignore it. 

[Lidolas he/him]

When I think of Adolin and Edgedancers, I always think about when Kaladin was sneaking through the camps and saw Adolin stand up to Sadeas' men to protect the prostitute.  To me, that was a great example of 'remembering those who are forgotten.'