Help Pointing Me In the Right Direction: Kaladin/Storm [OB Spoilers]

[Dalakaar he/him]

I don't have theories myself, but I am curious about the moment when Kaladin creates a pocket in the highstorm to save the humans captured by the parshmen. Even Syl is surprised, except she tried(or succeeded?) to do the same thing in WoK when Kaladin is left in the highstorm himself. That always stuck out in my mind as one of the most beautiful moments in the book. Syl standing in front of Kaladin protectively, arms upraised against the storm. I'd love to have a massive wall painting of that moment.

Anyways, I know the theory of plate and windspren but that doesn't seem to explain his ability to direct the storm itself. (Or if it does I missed that entirely.) Did a quick search but didn't come up with anything.

Anyone have some offhand knowledge/links?

[Watchcry he/him]

My understanding of it is that he used the Adhesion surge to create a vacuum, deflecting the storm. 

[Eris she/her]

It is a very interesting observation. In WoK, I didn't think Sly was protecting Kaladin but rather his abilities with the surges was protecting him from the flying debris. Sly can't really manipulate/ touch anything in the real world so I don't know how she would be able to help. The storm itself isn't harmful unlike the Everstorm but it is the debris that is hurtled and thrown during it that is harmful. 

But the OB moment with Kaladin protecting the people was most likely due to do with either him learning the words for the fourth ideal (as in learning/ getting an idea of the words could be but not actually knowing them) or it was him using his order's surges in a unique way. Like using gravity to split the storm or slow it.

(I always pictured it like the scene in Avatar the Last Airbender with Katara when..

Spoiler

she fought the person who killed her mother and exploded a massive water bubble and it is all dramatic and slow motion.

 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Like @Watchcry said, it was almost certainly a use of the surge of Adhesion to create a vacuum around Kaladin and those people, which meant the storm couldn’t affect them. I think that’s the most likely theory, because I don’t know how windspren would even be able to affect the storm that much.

[Scion of the Mists]

A vacuum would attract the storm (as well as do bad things to the people inside of it.  I think he used Adhesion to create a pocket of high-pressure air to deflect the storm.  

[Kaladin Zahel]

Or, a little tinfoily here: since Honor's death, Radiants are now able to summon/use common spren in addition to their Radiant spren.

Perhaps that Kaladin scene along with Dalinar's glory spren scene are forshadowing that current KR are able to do more with surges than their predecessors because they don't have Honor's restrictions.

Just a crazy shot in the dark.

[Mailnaise she/her]

On 1/5/2019 at 2:16 PM, Eris said:

It is a very interesting observation. In WoK, I didn't think Sly was protecting Kaladin but rather his abilities with the surges was protecting him from the flying debris. Sly can't really manipulate/ touch anything in the real world so I don't know how she would be able to help. The storm itself isn't harmful unlike the Everstorm but it is the debris that is hurtled and thrown during it that is harmful. 

Well in a way, Syl was protecting Kal because without the bond and Syl showing him, if subconsciously, how to use the surges and powers that come with it, he would have died~

but I get your point. 

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

Syl only knows what Kaladin can do after he learns that he can do it. Her answer to a lot of his questions early on were to the effect of "maybe?" and "probably?". The Spren seem to depend on their Radiants to help them "remember" things that they already know. As for the windspren that gathered around him, there is a theory out there that the Radiant's plate is made of the lesser spren of their order. Windspren for Windrunners, Creationspren for Lightweavers and Gloryspren for Bondsmiths just to name a few possibilities. Another thing to think about. I've seen a few WoBs out there were Brandon refers to the Windrunner surges as gravity and pressure rather than gravity and adhesion. This lends its self to the idea that Kal created a high or low pressure area to protect everyone (I vote high pressure btw).

[+Invocation]

6 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I've seen a few WoBs out there were Brandon refers to the Windrunner surges as gravity and pressure rather than gravity and adhesion. This lends its self to the idea that Kal created a high or low pressure area to protect everyone (I vote high pressure btw).

Pressure could just be the most useful way of using Adhesion for the Windrunners.
The pocket would almost certainly have to be high pressure, since low pressure would draw the storm into an eddy there and that wouldn't be good for anyone.

[Mailnaise she/her]

12 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

 As for the windspren that gathered around him, there is a theory out there that the Radiant's plate is made of the lesser spren of their order. Windspren for Windrunners, Creationspren for Lightweavers and Gloryspren for Bondsmiths just to name a few possibilities. Another thing to think about. 

Ooh ooh, what would the spren for elsecallers be? If the scene with Jasnah in OB, (when two people were thrown away from her, and then little geometric shapes were just visible around her to someone else who came around the corner a few seconds later, I forget exactly who it was~), is really her calling and then dismissing her shardplate, maybe we can figure it out from what we know of say, logic spren. (Which I think make the most sense for her, maybe not all elsecallers.) 

Thoughts?

EDIT: I was looking back up the thread and @Kaladin Zahel was getting here too I think...

Quote

Or, a little tinfoily here: since Honor's death, Radiants are now able to summon/use common spren in addition to their Radiant spren.

Perhaps that Kaladin scene along with Dalinar's glory spren scene are forshadowing that current KR are able to do more with surges than their predecessors because they don't have Honor's restrictions.

Just a crazy shot in the dark.

Any more thoughts?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Mailnaise

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

14 minutes ago, Mailnaise said:

Ooh ooh, what would the spren for elsecallers be? If the scene with Jasnah in OB, (when two people were thrown away from her, and then little geometric shapes were just visible around her to someone else who came around the corner a few seconds later, I forget exactly who it was~), is really her calling and then dismissing her shardplate, maybe we can figure it out from what we know of say, logic spren. (Which I think make the most sense for her, maybe not all elsecallers.) 

Thoughts?

EDIT: I was looking back up the thread and @Kaladin Zahel was getting here too I think...

Any more thoughts?

I’m sure book four will answer a lot of these questions (and pose new ones). Personally I think the only new power is that Dalinar has limited access to Honor through the Stormfather. IMO Honor planned his death and left his power with the Stormfather so that the Bondsmiths could access it in a limited fashion.

Mistborn spoilers

Spoiler

Kind of like Kelsier with Preservation but to an even more limited extent.

 

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Honor didn't plan his death probably, but he did know it was coming in time to set things up,and merged his Cognitive Shadow with the Stormfather after his death.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

8 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

Honor didn't plan his death probably, but he did know it was coming in time to set things up,and merged his Cognitive Shadow with the Stormfather after his death.

It’s a theory of mine that both Honor and Cultivation realized the problem with beings like them in the Cosmere. IMO they set events in motion to leave behind their power without pinning it to a person. They probably planned for the same thing to happen to Odium but he will probably wiggle out of it and escape Roshar (I think he’s the final boss of the Cosmere). Only time will tell if I’m right, but it seems like a major theme in the Cosmere is the breaking of the Shards direct influence in events. Basically I think that the end game is about turning them into forces rather than individuals.

[What's a Seawolf?]

2 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

It’s a theory of mine that both Honor and Cultivation realized the problem with beings like them in the Cosmere. IMO they set events in motion to leave behind their power without pinning it to a person. They probably planned for the same thing to happen to Odium but he will probably wiggle out of it and escape Roshar (I think he’s the final boss of the Cosmere). Only time will tell if I’m right, but it seems like a major theme in the Cosmere is the breaking of the Shards direct influence in events. Basically I think that the end game is about turning them into forces rather than individuals.

It would be interesting if Cultivation ultimately decided she had to cultivate herself.

Odium devoting tons of resources to crushing her, only to realize shattering her may set off events that lead to his own demise.  Team Dalinar begging her to take a more direct role in the fight.

[Kon-Tiki he/him]

1 hour ago, Mailnaise said:

Ooh ooh, what would the spren for elsecallers be? If the scene with Jasnah in OB, (when two people were thrown away from her, and then little geometric shapes were just visible around her to someone else who came around the corner a few seconds later, I forget exactly who it was~), is really her calling and then dismissing her shardplate, maybe we can figure it out from what we know of say, logic spren. (Which I think make the most sense for her, maybe not all elsecallers.) 

Yeah Inkspren and Logicspren appear to be paired. Lifespren and Cultivationspren as well. I can't figure out for the life of me what goes with Highspren or Lightspren, though I'd guess Starspren go with one or the other. Flamespren pretty obviously slot in with Ashspren (though we don't know much about Ashspren), and we know nothing at all about the stoneward spren and their potential pairing except that some great stone spren hang out near Shinovar

[Quantus he/him]

My best guesses for the "lesser" equivalent for the Skybreaker's Highspren would be Concentrationspren, Gravitationspren, or Bindspren