Wait, wait, WHAT'S this about Kaladin??? [would be spoilers except that it's apparently a WOB]

[+Invocation]

7 minutes ago, Kaladin Zahel said:

The only way I would be happy with Kaladin dying is if he pulls a Lightsong and saves Moash and in the process gives him Syl. Vyre becoming Moash Stormblessed, Knight Radiant would be totally worth it.

I'd rather just have him kill Moash in a symbolic gesture of letting go of his past grudges, but if he has to die, I'd rather him Iron Man it, suicide charging into the enemy and taking out a ton of them before going out. Of course, if Moash gets some more characterization, I might support your scenario, but as it is right now, I don't think Moash should get a good ending like that.

[Brightness Warrior she/her]

21 hours ago, Invocation said:

I don't think Moash should get a good ending like that.

Well...

I think he should get some nagging and constant reminder of all his deeds in the back of his mind - somewhat ignorable, but if your thoughts wander from the task at hand, a hint of that crushing guilt/betrayal will be back to haunt you. This will live in your memory until the day of your passing, threatening every moment to take over and consume you, to leave you a pointless shell, a void of a man rotting in a dark alleyway to escape the demons that lurk in each shadow. Your crimes will follow you, Moash of Bridge Four, traitor to your kind, on and ever for the rest of eternity. 

Have a nice day.

 

Can someone contact Brandon, please? I waxed poetic right there, and I want someone to see who might truly appreciate it.

[Calderis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Brightness Warrior said:

Well...

I think he should get some nagging and constant reminder of all his deeds in the back of his mind - somewhat ignorable, but if your thoughts wander from the task at hand, a hint of that crushing guilt/betrayal will be back to haunt you. This will live in your memory until the day of your passing, threatening every moment to take over and consume you, to leave you a pointless shell, a void of a man rotting in a dark alleyway to escape the demons that lurk in each shadow. Your crimes will follow you, Moash of Bridge Four, traitor to your kind, on and ever for the rest of eternity. 

Have a nice day.

How is that not what he is already? An empty shell incapable of facing his actions. 

And he's embraced it fully. 

[+Invocation]

24 minutes ago, Brightness Warrior said:

Well...

I think he should get some nagging and constant reminder of all his deeds in the back of his mind - somewhat ignorable, but if your thoughts wander from the task at hand, a hint of that crushing guilt/betrayal will be back to haunt you. This will live in your memory until the day of your passing, threatening every moment to take over and consume you, to leave you a pointless shell, a void of a man rotting in a dark alleyway to escape the demons that lurk in each shadow. Your crimes will follow you, Moash of Bridge Four, traitor to your kind, on and ever for the rest of eternity. 

Have a nice day.

Yeah, Calderis is accurate. You just described what Moash currently is. 

[Brightness Warrior she/her]

Yeah, but it has to be worse.. 

He deserves all that crushing grief and more. He should suffer for what he made others go through. He should go to the Night Watcher and be cursed to relive his committed horrors every day until the next Desolation.

[whattheHoid she/her]

...did I do it right? The spoiler tag I mean. 

And yes, as of now, Moash can go burn in Damnation for all I care! What a turdy turkey jerk!

[IllNsickly he/him]

3 hours ago, Brightness Warrior said:

Yeah, but it has to be worse.

I guess I CAN imagine things worse than going completely flat emotionally...

But most of those things have a Permanence associated with them. To live in an unfeeling haze just to be manipulated into an emotional overcharge seems a Cremmy way to live.

Either bury him in his guilt and self loathing or make him feel Nothing consistently. No matter what else he has done, I can’t agree with the upheaval he seems to be experiencing.

Edited December 11, 2018 by IllNsickly
Capitaized a word

[Lidolas he/him]

He needs Nyneave following him around pulling her braid and complaining that no one needs shardplate but stout Two Rivers woolen stockings should be good enough.

[Brightness Warrior she/her]

I think he should be forced to wear wet socks until he dies. And there should be an immortal fly that buzzes around his head forever. And he should have a permanent cold. 

[whattheHoid she/her]

Moash should have to be forced to speak only in vowels so he can sound as stupid as he is and than should be forced to endure the sounds of nails on a chalkboard only heard by him while having a swarm of windspren constantly playing tricks on him for eternity. That would mildly help....derp derp globbing glerp Moash!

[Subvisual Haze]

I feel like Moash is pretty blatantly being set up for a redemption arc.  The themes of the series are largely about forgiveness and second chances (Dalinar/Szeth/Venli/Shallan's squires/Ash), and Brandon just has such an inherently optimistic view of human nature that his villains tend to be immediately apparent by their complete lack of empathy.  Also I have to imagine Brandon would be drawn to a good Prodigal Son narrative.

I'm guessing Moash ultimately either takes a bullet for Kaladin or takes Jezrien's place as penance in Damnation to hold back Odium during the timeskip between the front 5 and back 5 Stormlight books.

[Winds Alight she/her]

13 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I feel like Moash is pretty blatantly being set up for a redemption arc.  The themes of the series are largely about forgiveness and second chances (Dalinar/Szeth/Venli/Shallan's squires/Ash), and Brandon just has such an inherently optimistic view of human nature that his villains tend to be immediately apparent by their complete lack of empathy.  Also I have to imagine Brandon would be drawn to a good Prodigal Son narrative.

I'm guessing Moash ultimately either takes a bullet for Kaladin or takes Jezrien's place as penance in Damnation to hold back Odium during the timeskip between the front 5 and back 5 Stormlight books.

Considerin Brandon's previous books (and Szeth's heel-face-turn) as far as I know them, that might be possible.
But I don't WANT this. I really really do not want to have to forgive him *stubbornspren appear*

Edited December 12, 2018 by Winds Alight

[whattheHoid she/her]

Or Moash is being set up as a contender for Oduim's champion and will have a big fight with Kaladin.

I hope so, I don't want to like Moash!

Edited December 13, 2018 by whattheHoid

[Calderis he/him]

Moash's turn to Odium was so sudden and drastic that if he were to do the same thing again I'd be very disappointed.

I'm not on board the Moash hate train, because frankly he's a small fry who was used masterfully by Brandon to create a gut wrenching moment that still shines in my mind as a beacon of his talent because no one cared about Elhokar at the end of WoR. 

The victim here in my mind is Moash, on a meta level. Because his abrupt change in direction threw me hard. Amaram was almost as bad, but at least there was subtext there that I could create a narrative that makes sense, but Moash's turn just... Worst thing about OB in my opinion. 

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Calderis

[Wyndlerunner he/him]

On 12/11/2018 at 11:23 AM, Lidolas said:

He needs Nyneave following him around pulling her braid and complaining that no one needs shardplate but stout Two Rivers woolen stockings should be good enough.

Don't forget boxing his ears and calling him a woolhead for the rest of time