Arcanist Lupus he/him Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but what is Odium's goal? Ruin's goal was to ruin things. Preservation's goal was to preserve the things Ruin was trying to ruin. Odium's goal is to... make things odious? What would that entail, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else he/him Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 odium - 1. intense hatred or dislike, esp. toward a person or thing regarded as contemptible, despicable, or repugnant. 2. the reproach, discredit, or opprobrium attaching to something hated or repugnant: He had to bear the odium of neglecting his family. 3. the state or quality of being hated. —Syn. 1. detestation, abhorrence, antipathy. 2. obloquy. —Ant. 1. love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGhandalf Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Considering that his Shard name is, effectively, a synonym for hatred, I would assume that Odium's nature is to hate all other beings or things (as Preservation's was to protect them or Ruin's was to destroy them) and his goals are, therefore, probably not too dissimilar from those of Lord Foul from the Thomas Covenant books- in other words, he does want to destroy everything, but he wants to wring the maximum amount of suffering from it first (where Ruin was really only malevolent towards people who got in his way; otherwise, he was a more impersonal destroyer). Of course, unlike Foul (who was bound to one world) Odium seems to have at least some freedom to roam the cosmos, which means he's not just Roshar's problem. In short, I see the major difference between Ruin and Odium being one of motive and method- Ruin was an efficient destroyer who destroyed because it was his nature to break things down, while Odium is a hateful destroyer who destroys out of sheer malice and spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 My comment on Ruin vs Odium on another thread was that Ruin will kill you, but Odium will make sure you suffer horribly first, then kill you. And then make you suffer after you're dead if possible. Because he hates EVERYTHING. Except himself. Probably. That is why Odium is "the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 That is a battle I would have liked to see, Ruin vs Odium. Hate vs mindless destruction. Who will win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eri she/her Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Both. Ruin would destroy Odium, but Odium would make sure that Ruin would suffer greatly for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 My comment on Ruin vs Odium on another thread was that Ruin will kill you, but Odium will make sure you suffer horribly first, then kill you. And then make you suffer after you're dead if possible. Because he hates EVERYTHING. Except himself. Probably. That is why Odium is "the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards". No fair claiming my idea! You said it pretty well, though. I like that description. My only change would be that Odium would have no reason to actually kill you. Just torturing you would probably be enough. Keeping it up after death would just allow the pre-death torture to be that much more dangerous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame he/him Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I get the feeling that the Heralds' suffering is a good example of Odium exercising its intent. Heck, killing you might not even be on it's agenda. Endless suffering will probably be preferable to death to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGhandalf Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Dalinar's final vision implies that an apocalypse is Odium's end goal (whether or not the Almighty's portrayal of how that works is literal or not remains to be seen). But it's not going to be a quick or clean one in any way, shape, or form, though. Considering you've got the shard of hate, malice, and all that fun stuff (Odium) tied to a person who was apparently pretty evil already, at least in the letter-writer's (Hoid's?) opinion (Rayse), I'm somehow doubting that Roshar's going to be in for anything as relatively quick or clean as what Ruin tried to do on Scadrial. And when Ruin starts looking like the pleasant alternative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashyma she/her Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) I always thought that Odium's intent was to create odium-a strong feeling of shame and despair. Torturing the Heralds until they broke the Oathpact just to see Honor's champions suffer the shame of betraying and abandoning a friend. I am not being clear on this. Let's start over: Ruin wished to destroy-his intention was physical. Odium wants to drag everything down to his own level, he wishes to corrupt even the most honourable. Edited September 4, 2011 by Aashyma 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unworldly Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) Dalinar's final vision implies that an apocalypse is Odium's end goal. Actually, I thought that the final vision implies only that the Almighty feared an apocalypse is coming, resulting in the complete annihilation of the world (of Roshar at least). From memory (and correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am ) the only thing that the Almighty directly credits to Odium is the death of the Almighty - "Odium has killed (murdered?) me." Just because Odium killed him does not mean that Odium is who is bringing the apocalypse. His murder might make it possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean Odium did it for that reason. We may discover that Odium has completely lost his mind and is incapable of planning at this point (though that seems unlikely given the whole "Odium reigns" part of Kaladin's storm-riding dream). "Credit Edit": Just noticed that Droz stated pretty much exactly this over in the "Who spoke to Kaladin" thread. Chances are good that I subconsciously nicked it. So credit goes to Droz for this idea We also don't know that the Apocalypse is really coming - I believe the Almightly mentions that percieving the future is difficult for him (and that Cultivation was better at it, in particular). One thing to note about that: if the apocalypse he sees *is* coming, surely Cultivation would also be seeing it, and would like try to stop it (complete destruction of everything on Roshar is somewhat at odds with cultivating anything there) But as I said, I'm likely completely wrong. And if so, I'm going to very much enjoy being shown I'm wrong, since learning is fun Edited September 5, 2011 by Unworldly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dros Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 I like the way you think, Unwordly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KageNoOni Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 I was under the assumption that Odium was indeed causing the apocalypse. In particular, I remember the following Epigraph: Gadol spit up blood, coughing. “They break the land itself!” he hissed, eyes wild. “They want it, but in their rage they will destroy it. Like the jealous man burns his rich things rather than let them be taken by his enemies! They come!” I thought that was referring to their enemies, that is, Odium. He wants the world, and wants it badly, but if he gets it, he'll end up destroying it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Right, I don't think Odium is motivated to destroy Roshar or the people living on it as a whole, but it's likely to be a side-effect of whatever his real intention is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dros Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Right, I don't think Odium is motivated to destroy Roshar or the people living on it as a whole, but it's likely to be a side-effect of whatever his real intention is. Also, what exactly is his motivation in killing other shardholders (besides hating them)? It doesn't seem he takes in the power of the shard in any way. Getting Hionor out of the way is one reason, I guess, but it's my understanding the Shard keeps it's power even after the holder dies. Why kill the other two, as well? I guess that might be the whole jist of the story, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Except that it says "Aona and Skaze are dead, and what they held has been Splintered." This seems to say a major Shard power loss, not to mention a passing of two ancients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubay he/him Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Someone above suggested that the only thing odium may or may not hate is himself. This got me thinking - what if he does hate himself? It would create a much more interesting character for brandon to explore, instead of just 'always chaotic evil.' He did this with ruin, who justified his existence as natural and essential to the continuous flow of life. Ruin was a very simple character, in that he just wanted to destroy everything, but the few conversations he had with vin explaining himself made up for that. If odium hates himself - and everything else - his motivations and decisions will be more skewed and irrational, and ultimately his character will be more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Brandon has said (recently) that the Name of a shard shows their "outview" on the world. That is to say that Preservation wants to preserve other people, not himself. Ruin wants to destroy other people, not himself. I think Odium is the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni he/him Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 From the books I infer that shards, essentially, want to propagate their intent in the world. That is, Ruin want to increase ruin in the world, Preservation wants to leave thing unchanged - preserve them, and Odium - well here is the quote Unworldy mentioned: “Wait!” Kaladin said. “Why is there so much war? Must we always fight?” He wasn’t sure why he asked. The questions simply came out.The storm rumbled, like a thoughtful aged father. The face vanished, shattering into droplets of water. More softly, the voice answered, ODIUM REIGNS. So, Odium wants to increase hatred and amorality in the world. Wars help - you hate your enemy and do atrocious things to them, but end world would probably be where one would eat his hated neighbour's child raw, and hate the taste. Which will eventually lead to self-destruction. So, something close to AAshyma's point of view, actually. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Hate and conflict could be Odium's means, or they could be his end, or they could be both, like it was for Ruin. It would be interesting if Odium's magic functioned through conflict or hate or disgust at hated actions, but they methods Odium used were more indirect and subtle, like Jasnah seemed to suggest with her theory of the parshmen being Voidbringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 So, Odium wants to increase hatred and amorality in the world. Wars help - you hate your enemy and do atrocious things to them, but end world would probably be where one would eat his hated neighbour's child raw, and hate the taste. Which will eventually lead to self-destruction. So, something close to AAshyma's point of view, actually. I would actually take this a couple of steps further. It would create a world where you would eat your own hated child raw, and hate the taste. And hate yourself for doing it, but keep doing it anyway. I suppose this would lead to self-destruction. Anyway, the more I think about this, the nastier it sounds. Ruin is a picnic by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I dont know who said it, but Ruin just wants to kill you, Odium wants to torture you for all eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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