Unworldly

The quote from Brandon in Zas' post above makes me think that these Unmade are linked to the Almighty's final message to Dalinar, about Shardholders being able to be bound to their Champions: the Unmade would be the Champions that Odium is bound to, just as the Heralds appear to be bound to the Almighty. I wonder if this means that the Almighty got the Unmade to mess with, just as the Heralds appear to have spent hundreds or thousands of years being tortured between Desolations. Also, this might allow us to more conclusively 'date' the Almighty's death in a way. He could only record the message about Champions either before the Heralds took on the Oathpact, or after they abandoned it - since, while the Heralds existed, there would be no need - there were already Champions in play, so why tell someone that? Since the messages reference the fall of the Knights Radiant, they could only be recorded after the Knights Radiant gave up too. This would mean, I think, that the Almighty was still alive when the Knights Radiant fell - his death is thus fairly recent. As a side note, if the "Unmade are Odium's Champions" thing is true, then my brother is going to be very happy: his favourite part of the Wheel of Time novels is watching what the Forsaken get up to. Another series with a similarly well-fleshed out set of 'bad guys' should appeal too

The above may be true, however, I think that Shallan has forcibly repressed her memory of that event (as much as she is able to, what with her excellent memory), and so might consciously choose not to investigate events surrounding her fathers' death - even if they were particularly puzzling. That said, I hold more to the view that the Shardblade is like all others: an ancient relic, passed down through the generations, and that Shallan picked it up either just before, or just after, her father's death. My gut says it was directly involved in her father's death, though I can't work out why her memory contains so much blood if that's the case.

Does anyone else think Brandon might be giving us a bit of hint here? (The bolded words, I mean). I think that Sazed would be perfectly happy to assist Marsh in living forever, if that is what Marsh wants to do. For Sazed, it means he has a consistent 'frame-of-reference' for himself. ...brainwave: We've seen that holding Shards eventually twists the mind holding them towards the Shard's intent - Ati was apparently not such a bad guy, but thousands of years holding Ruin turned him into what Ruin was by the time we met him. There have been repeated discussions about what happens to Sazed's mind, holding two Shards... I wonder if it's easier for him to remain "Sazed" rather than a 50-50 split of Ruin and Preservation, when Marsh is still around? I mean, Sazed can watch whatever Marsh is up to, and remember back to before he 'ascended' as it were. I wonder if this helps him stay "Sazed" instead of being 'transformed' into the embodiment of his Shards' intents.

Hot damnation I forgot that he was Faramir. That was one of the major points-in-favour from the discussion that my previous post arose from. *slaps self* But not seeing 300 is hardly a travesty. Personally I love it for its stylised violence, clever storytelling, and because I'm an Ancient History major and it's a 're imagining' of one of my favourite moments in Ancient Greek history, but I can imagine that some dislike it for its loose-treatment of history, and its over-the-top violence, and its totally-unnecessary sex-scene (seriously, completely pointless). Also, Sean Bean would be too predictable as Marsh. Sean Bean *always* plays unlikely-traitor characters in movies. I mean, Goldeneye, Lord of the Rings, National Treasure... the list goes on... although, if he WAS Marsh, people might guess he would betray them and be totally surprised when he doesn't. Hmmm...

My wife and I were discussing this the other day and settled on a potentially awesome actor for Kelsier: David Wenham He's an Aussie actor (you might know him as the storytelling Spartan in 300, but he's been in a bunch of other things. Not sure about how he would look in action sequences since I can't think of too many aside from 300 (where I don't recall actually seeing him 'fight' in any scenes), but: His acting is excellent His voice has a certain 'refined' quality that would work well for an ex-scammer of noblemen He's quite skilled at accents (for example, can hide his Aussie accent quite well), which allows him to avoid the number 1 problem with Australian actors in Hollywood movies (they sound terrible - see Rachel Taylor in Transformers for proof) Plus he's blonde, which is a bonus since Kelsier is supposed to be as well I can really see him as the kind of person who would lecture Vin about trust, and I can really see him setting up a character that unsuspecting viewers would grow to love over the course of the (first) movie, only to have to watch him die near the end. In a completely unrelated manner, I would pay any amount of money to see the Kelsier vs Inquisitor fight from just before his death on film. Particularly the part where the Inquisitor throws the cage at him

If I remember correctly, Dalinar says that they discovered the Parshendi whilst on an extended hunt for Greatshells. I don't imagine it's a coincidence that they were looking in almost the right place for them.

Or we can be disappointed... How AWESOME would those fight sequences be?! But I guess you're speaking from the view of his opposition in that circumstance, in which case yeah, I agree that would be rather unfair (and make Szeth nigh-unstoppable).

I wonder if someone can even have two Shardblades bonded to them at the same time... I recall reading that the method by which one summons a Shardblade is made known and becomes instinctive to that person the first time they pick up the Shardblade (seems to be indicated via the flashing of the gemstone in the pommel, at least in the one case we've seen of something grabbing a Shardblade for the first time), but the method seems to be identical for all 'blades - at least, even non-Shardbearers recognise when someone is summoning their 'blade; their posture seems to be a give-away, and all of them we've seen in viewpoints so far have the 10-heartbeat delay mechanism. So if you have *two* 'blades, how do you choose which one you want to summon? Or do they both turn up - one in each hand? I can imagine some funny scenarios where someone has more than two 'blades, and when they summon a Shardblade they end up with Shardblades falling everywhere

Oh, right. I don't recall him thinking about who found the body first but I imagine it would have been the guards who shepherded Sadeas from the room when he was acting as the distraction. Likely once they saw their distraction had failed, they would have returned to see what had happened, and found Gavilar dead.

Amongst all this talk of whether the Returned absorb the weekly Breath instantly or not, I'd like to point out that Lightsong mentions how near the end of the week, things get kind of 'fuzzy,' like he's really tired. When I read that, it made me think that the Breath is absorbed over time - otherwise, why would they suddenly get hazy only at the end of the week? Unless we're saying that they absorb the power of the Breath instantly, and then their body slowly burns through that 'fuel tank' of spiritual energy - but I think this is overcomplicating things somewhat. My main argument against this instant-consumption is: how does their body know not to consume additional Breaths instantly, if they're adding to an internal spiritual 'fuel tank'? I think it more likely that they hold on to the Breath and slowly consume it, until at the end of the week the Breath is completely absorbed and a new one is required - the hazy feeling Lightsong describes would then be similar to the sick infant's Breath we see at one point - it wavers like a candle flame that's about to run out of wick, unstable and such. I think it stands to reason that the Returned would feel this wavering quite strongly only if the original Breath, which is slowly 'dying,' is intact and still within them. If they were to absorb it instantly, then sure there are other explanations for this fuzzy feeling, but I feel that it would then require the fuel tank scenario I described and that then we're making things more complicated than they need to be.

Szeth was the one who wrote the words found near him - the dying request is apparently sacred to the Shin, and since he couldn't hang around to pass on Gavilar's final words as requested, he wrote them using Gavilar's finger and Gavilar's blood. The assumption that Gavilar himself wrote them was made by those who viewed the body later - they all assumed it was just another facet of his increasingly un-Alethi worldview (and therefore Dalinar talks about how it is vaguely disturbing that Gavilar could write - but as far as we know, Gavilar was illiterate at the time of his death)

I'd like to add something that might complicate this theory somewhat. First, see the quote from Twitter below: So, if Spren are cognitive aspects of 'things' - living or not - on Roshar, how precisely would they assist a Greatshell in growing larger? My thinking is that they can embody more than just things like rain, or rocks, but fundamental natural forces as well - in this case, I think that the Spren that BS is talking about here would be something like Gravityspren (or possibly, Anti-gravityspren, as it were). I've seen discussions before about the problems of Crustacea as large as Chasmfiends - even with Roshar's less-than-earth gravity - and I think one solution is that these spren are lessening the hold of gravity on the creatures, and thus allowing them to grow in size. This then might explain the odd spren seen escaping a dead Chasmfiend - they escape upwards because they are actively resisting the effects of gravity, and normally their upward tendency is countered by the huge weight of a Chasmfiend, which they are somehow bonded too (possibly trapped in the gemheart?). Of course, the problem here is why are there so many individual spren seen escaping the Greatshell corpse, if they are gravityspren - why are they divided up? Other discussions here have focused on Kaladin's mother claiming that when an object is broken up, the spren within is divided. Why would gravity be divided? I'm probably missing something here - anyone have any thoughts on this development?

Possibly, like Kaladin speaking the Ideals, she only needs to give up 'powerful truths' a limited number of times to establish the bond with the spren? After that point, it would only require Stormlight-infused gemstones and communicating with the truthspren?

Or alternatively, it means that it was part of the deal, but Honor did not forsee a time when his end of the deal would not be held up. For example, if the Oathpact was that Odium would not kill Honor in return for being able to torture the Heralds whenever they died (and in return they are sent back to life to fight in the Desolations) perhaps Honor did not forsee that the Heralds would walk away from the deal? (Edit: Yes, this still seems like a terrible deal for everyone except Odium) It's possible that his Shard had twisted his mind so much that the idea of anyone with any honour making an oath and then breaking it was beyond his ability to understand?

If I recall correctly, the reason that Ruin and Preservation can only talk to specific people is that they move to block each other's actions whenever one of them tries to. The specific people's belief in them makes it easier to talk to them (I like to think of it as having a radio tuned closer or further from the frequency you're trying to reach - if it's closer, it's easier for the signal to punch through the static and be understood). So in AoL, Harmony shouldn't be having this issue - it's not like he would block himself. So I would prefer to think that since he's so into non-intervention, the earrings are just a signal to him that someone wants to talk to him. And in this case, Wax has been researching the Vanishers' crimes for most of that night, so it's probably not hard for Harmony to intuit that he would be praying about that sort of thing - and so he can give generalised help and encouragement based on that assumption. Though, this doesn't explain: How would Harmony know he was thinking that? This might lead me to a conclusion that Preservation and Ruin can read minds - but doing so takes an extraordinary amount of effort - and while their opposite was actively or even passively resisting them, they were unable to do so. Therefore, now that Harmony is basically unopposed, reading minds is quite easy; and again, the copper earring is a sign to Harmony saying "It's ok to read my mind - I want you to." Or I could be wrong...

Greatest. Prizes. Ever. I'm in(terested in winning!)

Hi all, I was re-reading Way of Kings last night when I came across something that may or may not be pertinent to this discussion, in the Prologue (Szeth's assassination of Gavilar, that is). The first time Szeth uses a Lashing - in this case, he Lashes himself to the far end of a corridor, and uses the resulting 'fall' to kick two guards in the face simultaneously (I knew I was in for a good read when this was the first action scene, heh), it says this (emphasis mine):

Actually, if I recall correctly, Kaladin can read (at least, he can read simple glyphs) because surgeons do learn to read. It was a major point of contention between himself and the other young boys of his village - they spent hot days farming while he sat in the shade, memorising stuff out of a book about surgery. Also, I'd like to bring to everyone's attention - one of Brandon's short stories ("Defending Elysium" I think) features a visually challenged hero, and the descriptions of the 'blackness' of sightlessnes and how disturbing it is remind me strongly of Gaz's experiences with his missing eye. The point I make here is, from my reading, the blindness was a *major* part of the 'magic'-system in Defending Elysium, and the similar descriptions suggest to me that there's much more to Gaz's blindness than (sorry) meets the eye.

Actually, I thought that the final vision implies only that the Almighty feared an apocalypse is coming, resulting in the complete annihilation of the world (of Roshar at least). From memory (and correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am ) the only thing that the Almighty directly credits to Odium is the death of the Almighty - "Odium has killed (murdered?) me." Just because Odium killed him does not mean that Odium is who is bringing the apocalypse. His murder might make it possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean Odium did it for that reason. We may discover that Odium has completely lost his mind and is incapable of planning at this point (though that seems unlikely given the whole "Odium reigns" part of Kaladin's storm-riding dream). "Credit Edit": Just noticed that Droz stated pretty much exactly this over in the "Who spoke to Kaladin" thread. Chances are good that I subconsciously nicked it. So credit goes to Droz for this idea We also don't know that the Apocalypse is really coming - I believe the Almightly mentions that percieving the future is difficult for him (and that Cultivation was better at it, in particular). One thing to note about that: if the apocalypse he sees *is* coming, surely Cultivation would also be seeing it, and would like try to stop it (complete destruction of everything on Roshar is somewhat at odds with cultivating anything there) But as I said, I'm likely completely wrong. And if so, I'm going to very much enjoy being shown I'm wrong, since learning is fun

I might be wrong but I recall someone in the book mentioning (likely Dalinar during one of his visions) that Alethela was the 'ancient' name for Alethkar, so it would occupy the same general area (with borders moving due to wars and such, over the centuries).

A possibly relevant question to this topic: The Chasmfiends are often caught exposed on the plateaus, apparently pupating. They build chrysalises around themselves somehow, and the Parshendi and the Alethi race to get there first, break them open, and claim the gemheart. All this we all already know. Does it mention *why* the Chasmfiends are pupating? What are they turning in to? And are the Parshendi hunting pupating Chasmfiends specifically to prevent a Chasmfiend completing its transformation? EDIT (this is what happens when I post at work): Forgot to actually tie it to the topic. My thinking is that the Parshendi have hunted Chasmfiends for exactly this purpose - the gemhearts are a welcome bonus. If they are now trying to get themselves killed (for the reasons stated in the OP), what does this mean? Are they therefore giving up their struggle to prevent pupating Chasmfiends from maturing, and what consequences will this have? Alternatively, did they bring the Alethi in because they fear that what will happen if someone (Odium? Another force or Shard?) does 'take control' of them is that no one will hunt the Chasmfiends - so they bring in the competitive and fairly avaricious Alethi to make sure someone is killing the pupating Chasmfiends?

Hi all, I've been lurking around the site for a long time and thought I'd finally weigh in on this discussion. I think this effectively ties in with the giant water-based Spren that Axies views in his interlude chapter. I think it's basically the Spren of the ocean - which, as might be noticed, is a large, undivided entity. As for it's particular behaviour, I don't know if this theory helps - but it might help to explain the size (though the idea of it being large because people previously measured it to be large is a persuasive one as well), and definitely helps to explain the apparent uniqueness of this particular Spren - it simply has yet to be divided up in a noticeable way. Does anyone remember any particular reference to a Water Spren, other than the Rain Spren (which are obviously tied to Rain, not Water precisely)? I don't recall seeing them - and given the prevalence of water on Roshar (both in the ocean surrounding the continent, the scenes with Shallan aboard the ship at the start, and any number of flood references) I think the absence of 'water' Spren is rather surprising. I could be wrong - I'm certainly no expert on these things - but the idea came to mind as I was reading this thread and I decided to share - at least this way it can be shot down more effectively