Where is Honor?

[Scion of the Mists]

I've always imagined Splintering as breaking up the Investiture of a Shard into tiny pieces, i.e. Splinters.  We know that the Skaze/Seons are the result of Splintering, and Brandon has described Preservation's theft of a protion of Ruin's power creating the Pits of Hathsin as "kind of" like Splintering.  When Ambition was killed, waves of power were ripped off, which had a large effect on Threnody (per Khriss in Arcanum Unbounded).  

However, this begs the question - where are Honor's Splinters?  

Obviously, the Stormfather and other spren are Splinters (either Honor's alone or a mixture with Cultivation).  However, most spren predate Honor and Cultivation arriving on Roshar, and even the Radiant spren (which I don't think existed prior to H/C arrival) were created before Tanavast's death, so these can't be the Splinters that result from the Splintering.  What did Odium do with the remnants of Honor?  It doesn't seem like they're in the Physical or Cognitive Realm (people probably would have noticed a whole bunch of new spren popping into existence).  I guess that only leaves the Spiritual Realm, but that doesn't mesh with Odium pulling Dominion/Devotion's power into the Cognitive Realm (which he did specifically because he didn't want the power to be taken).  

[Quantus]

I think it comes to the qualitative differences in Seons vs Spren, and in Roshar vs Sel. Part of the Puzzle (Per This WOB) is that Spren are significantly more numerous than Seons, so they provide a "pressure release" for the Raw Power left on roshar that the Seons cannot.  That fits with This WOB that says seons are just a tiny piece of the power, like sparks or the dust that falls off when you break a stone. 

Also there is This one that implies that Honor saw his splintering coming and took conscious steps regarding how his Investiture fell out. 

 

Aslo

33 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Obviously, the Stormfather and other spren are Splinters (either Honor's alone or a mixture with Cultivation).  However, most spren predate Honor and Cultivation arriving on Roshar, and even the Radiant spren (which I don't think existed prior to H/C arrival) were created before Tanavast's death, so these can't be the Splinters that result from the Splintering.  What did Odium do with the remnants of Honor?  It doesn't seem like they're in the Physical or Cognitive Realm (people probably would have noticed a whole bunch of new spren popping into existence).  I guess that only leaves the Spiritual Realm, but that doesn't mesh with Odium pulling Dominion/Devotion's power into the Cognitive Realm (which he did specifically because he didn't want the power to be taken).  

This might be a misnomer, since even though there were Spren around all predate their Arrival, per wob ALL Investiture across the Cosmere was assigned to one of the 16 shards, so whatever spren were present would have theoretically either had their entire generation wiped out during the Shattering of Adonalsium to create the newer more specific breeds, or else they already had a strong philosophic connection to Oaths/Bonds/Honor and to Cultivation and simply maintained it; perhaps that is what attracted the attention of those two int eh first place

[Scion of the Mists]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Also there is This one that implies that Honor saw his splintering coming and took conscious steps regarding how his Investiture fell out. 

I think you linked the wrong WoB.  I would be very interested in the actual one - it seems like it may answer my question.  

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

This might be a misnomer, since even though there were Spren around all predate their Arrival, per wob ALL Investiture across the Cosmere was assigned to one of the 16 shards, so whatever spren were present would have theoretically either had their entire generation wiped out during the Shattering of Adonalsium to create the newer more specific breeds, or else they already had a strong philosophic connection to Oaths/Bonds/Honor and to Cultivation and simply maintained it; perhaps that is what attracted the attention of those two int eh first place

I doubt that there was a massive spren genocide committed by H/C when they arrived.  

However, my point regarding the spren is that they can't be the Splinters created when Odium Splintered Honor, because they were already in existence.  Contrast this with Sel, where the Seons/Skaze did not exist prior to the D/D Splintering.  So my question is, where are the Splinters of Honor created when Odium Splintered Honor?  

[Steel Inquisitive]

I believe the stormlight cycle plays a big part of this. Unless I'm mistaken stormlight is basically Honor's raw investiture. I think stormlight might have predated H&C arrival.... But even if it did it would keep Honor's power from building up too much pressure. The storms act like a vent, blasting extra investiture across the PR to keep it from getting to dangerous levels.

also there's a WoB about D&D splintering that says Odium was just figuring out how to kill people and that the whole Selish fiasco was a mistake. I'll try to find it....

Found it!

Quote

Argent [PENDING REVIEW]

I thought, like, at one of the signings you told me that when Odium was on Sel and Splintered the Shards there, the reason he did the Cognitive Realm hack was because he was not yet experienced in Splintering stuff.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Right. He did not want what happened to happen, but he didn't know that he didn't want what happened to happen.

Argent [PENDING REVIEW]

What I was getting at is, I could never find a recording of you saying "He was not experienced. He didn't want the power to be taken by anyone, and that's the only solution he could figure out." Does that sound like something you would say?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

That is something I would say, yes. There are better ways to do what he wanted to do, which he later did a better job with. But there's not a lot of experimenting he could do.

Argent [PENDING REVIEW]

Limited number of subjects, right?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Mmhmm.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Steel Inqusitive

[Quantus]

2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I think you linked the wrong WoB.  I would be very interested in the actual one - it seems like it may answer my question.  

No, sorry for any false hope, that one was the best one I had. 

 

It says he was making a lot of Intentional Splinters (Spren large and small, Honorblades, etc), and if you combine that with how according to the text (unless Im misremembering) it was stated that Tanavast-Honor prepared the Stormfather to be his heir/Cognitive Shadow in preparation of his death at the hands of odium, specifically and as a post-desolation development, I took it to be a solid indication.  But it doesnt outright state it that way in the WOB. 

[luluzulu]

Honor's power seems to still be accessible - Dalinar takes at least a portion of it at the end of Oathbringer, when he creates the perpendicularity. Maybe it's something to do with his bond to the Stormfather, Honor's Cognitive Shadow. Maybe Stormfather holds much (if not all) of Honor's Investiture, but can't access it for some reason? Maybe because, as a spren, he's mostly in the Cognitive Realm, whereas a shard would be in the Spiritual Realm? Interesting to think about but no clue if any of it is true lol I just like rambling

[Embrisk]

Here are an idea. Those splinters were picked up by spren, which is maybe why they can turn into shardblades/plates.

It is also why surgebinding is granted to those who bond with spren.

Maybe it is also why Roshar used to have more wood. The highstorm wasn't as powerful before Honour died.

Splintering Honour gave more power to humans, because spren are the link between Honour and humans.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Servillius

[luluzulu]

45 minutes ago, Ookla the Servillius said:

Here are an idea. Those splinters were picked up by spren, which is maybe why they can turn into shardblades/plates.

It is also why surgebinding is granted to those who bond with spren.

Both these things happened before Honor was splintered

[+Invocation]

50 minutes ago, Ookla the Servillius said:

Maybe it is also why Roshar used to have more wood. The highstorm wasn't as powerful before Honour died.

I think the highstorm has always been as powerful as it currently is, though not exactly the same, considering Adonalsium made everything in that system (including the main continent) a very specific way. Plus it's like...all rock. Did they ever have more wood? Trees as we know it wouldn't be able to grow between the winds, debris, and lack of soil everywhere except Shinovar. 

[Embrisk]

Ok, I don't know, then.

I thought in dalinars visions of the past he saw more wood. That was just my (incorrect) theory.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Ookla the Servillius

[+Invocation]

21 minutes ago, Ookla the Servillius said:

Ok, I don't know, then.

I thought in dalinars visions of the past he saw more wood. That was just my (incorrect) theory.

That might have just been that one portion, I don't remember.

[Wandering Investor]

5 hours ago, Ookla the Servillius said:

I thought in dalinars visions of the past he saw more wood.

I think in one of the vision's he noted they used wood as their primary building material. But keep in mind that Alethkar receives the Highstorm at its most potent, so they are less inclined to use wood as a building material. The people in the vision may have had access to more wood, or they just lived farther west and didn't need stone buildings.

 

As for where the shards of Honor are, I have a few ideas. The first is that large portions of the power were assigned task, and continue to do those task regardless of whether Honor is still around. Portions of Honor are invested in the Highstorm, parts are scattered through the various spren, and Odium is still bound by the powers of Cultivation and Honor, so I would imagine large parts of Honor are still chained to Odium.
Mistborn Secret History Spoiler:

Spoiler

Think of Preservation's mist. Kelsier compares them to soldiers scattered throughout the land instead of massed as an army. The downside is that Preservation/Kelsier can't control immediately without reclaiming them. The upside is that they'll keep doing what they're doing regardless of Preservation's death.

Another idea is that the pieces are just lying around in the spiritual realm. Unlike on Sel or wherever Ambition died, there is still a living shard opposed to Odium hanging around, aka Cultivation. So after killing Honor, Odium might not have had a chance to do anything with the pieces.

[Embrisk]

Makes sense. So He basically assigns his investiture to keep doing what it was doing when he was alive.