Kaladin's relationship

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

-Julia

For your information, his name is Gaston. Also, you forgot Sataneas and the Voidmobile from Lightflame's 103% Accurate Predications for Stones Unhallowed Thread. And Cthulu, you forgot him too. You need to be more thorough next time.

[Aether he/him]

Hmm.  You should write that essay!  More ship manifestos are always fun, and this fandom is sadly lacking in them.  (I think there are only two extant at the moment, which is really a crying shame.)

 

...is it derailing the thread too far to ask how you'd address the age gap?  It is still related to Kaladin shipping, after all...

The age gap is rather easy: I do not think Jasnah would care at all, as long as Kaladin does not come across as immature or juvenile, which I think is unlikely.

 

I think Kaladin might have more of a problem with it, but the biggest obstacle is his lingering mistrust of Lighteyes. He has gotten better, but Jasnah is the pure incarnation of what a Lighteyed woman is supposed to be, and also more of a force of nature than any other of the characters in the series (up to this point). But that is one of the things I really like about the pairing. Both seem to have deep scars, and I think they would be very good for each other in terms of healing those. Even more so than Shallan, really, as Kaladin/Shallan currently seem to be somewhat poisonous to both of them.

EDIT:

However, Brandon knows we know he does the unexpected. Therefore, something slightly more expected is, paradoxically, more unexpected, and as such there are only two possible ships: Kaladin/Axies, and Kaladin/The Spanish Inquisition.

You had me snickering throughout most of that post, but I completely lost it at "Kaladin/The Spanish Inquisition". I lost it again when I remembered the actual Monty Python line.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Aether

[Shaggai]

For your information, his name is Gaston. Also, you forgot Sataneas and the Voidmobile from Lightflame's 103% Accurate Predications for Stones Unhallowed Thread. And Cthulu, you forgot him too. You need to be more thorough next time.

 

I'm going with Julia, because I like the name. Second, let me quote my post:

completely unexpected

Do Sataneas and the Voidmobile fit that? I think not.

As for the squid, I refuse to include that little idiot. It was only ever a priest, not a god. Yog-Sothoth and Nyarlathotep are gods, not that green cremling.

[Kogiopsis she/her]

The age gap is rather easy: I do not think Jasnah would care at all, as long as Kaladin does not come across as immature or juvenile, which I think is unlikely.

 

I think Kaladin might have more of a problem with it, but the biggest obstacle is his lingering mistrust of Lighteyes. He has gotten better, but Jasnah is the pure incarnation of what a Lighteyed woman is supposed to be, and also more of a force of nature than any other of the characters in the series (up to this point). But that is one of the things I really like about the pairing. Both seem to have deep scars, and I think they would be very good for each other in terms of healing those. Even more so than Shallan, really, as Kaladin/Shallan currently seem to be somewhat poisonous to both of them.

 

I'm not so sure about Jasnah's perspective there - recall the amount of effort Shallan had to put in to gain her consideration, let alone her respect.  I suppose it's less a matter of age and more a matter of intellectual standing, but Jasnah does seem to pick and choose the people she respects very carefully, and I doubt she'd be anything but put off by Kaladin's attitude ("I’m offensive and asinine on my own time too" is not the kind of thing likely to win her heart.)

[Aether he/him]

I'm not so sure about Jasnah's perspective there - recall the amount of effort Shallan had to put in to gain her consideration, let alone her respect.  I suppose it's less a matter of age and more a matter of intellectual standing, but Jasnah does seem to pick and choose the people she respects very carefully, and I doubt she'd be anything but put off by Kaladin's attitude ("I’m offensive and asinine on my own time too" is not the kind of thing likely to win her heart.)

You might have a point there, but you forget that Jasnah (when she eventually gets back to civilization) will be more or less forced into spending time with/looking into Kaladin. I agree that she might not have thought twice about him under other circumstances, but were talking about another Radiant, who's Captain of the Kholin's personal guards. Not to mention his peculiar background of being a surgeon-in-training and a slave with a shash brand. Even if she refuses to be guarded, she will most likely look into him to determine whether or not he is a threat to herself and her family. I am not claiming that they would fall head-over-heels in love, but that they would slowly gain mutual respect for one another and then start warming up to each other.

 

And while Kaladin has certainly been acerbic for most of WoR, it seems like he might finally have regained some of his good spirit. What he initially had (and hopefully is what he has gone back to now) is more of the same no-nonsense attitude that she herself has. Though admittedly, people with that same tendency tend to be rather unforgiving for it towards each other...

[Kogiopsis she/her]

You might have a point there, but you forget that Jasnah (when she eventually gets back to civilization) will be more or less forced into spending time with/looking into Kaladin. I agree that she might not have thought twice about him under other circumstances, but were talking about another Radiant, who's Captain of the Kholin's personal guards. Not to mention his peculiar background of being a surgeon-in-training and a slave with a shash brand. Even if she refuses to be guarded, she will most likely look into him to determine whether or not he is a threat to herself and her family. I am not claiming that they would fall head-over-heels in love, but that they would slowly gain mutual respect for one another and then start warming up to each other.

 

And while Kaladin has certainly been acerbic for most of WoR, it seems like he might finally have regained some of his good spirit. What he initially had (and hopefully is what he has gone back to now) is more of the same no-nonsense attitude that she herself has. Though admittedly, people with that same tendency tend to be rather unforgiving for it towards each other...

Spending time with - yes, to some extent; some of Jasnah's comments early in WoR suggest to me that she may see herself as one of the non-combat Radiants, whereas Kaladin is clearly combat-oriented, so while their paths will certainly cross I'm not sure they will actually interact significantly.  As far as investigating him, it's possible that given the press of their situation she won't have time to do so, or won't prioritize it given that he's already put his life on the line for her family a handful of times already and has at the very least Dalinar to vouch for him.  Jasnah has a great deal more scholarly work to do, and we've already seen that she's strained by the magnitude of the tasks ahead of her.  Whether or not Kaladin is a security risk will probably be low on her list of things to assess.  (Honestly, if she develops an investigative interest in Kaladin at all it's likely to be through Shallan, actually, especially since she may well arrive at Urithiru before he returns.)

 

As far as mutual respect goes - I'll agree on that, exogenous to all shipping considerations; I expect to see that between all of the new Radiants eventually, though possibly grudgingly.  (I personally hold to the idea that we'll see ideological conflict in battle strategy/tactics and prioritization between different Orders, especially conflict between Windrunners seeking protection of civilians and others advocating strategic sacrifice for longer-term gain.)

 

I'd also argue that the 'offensive and asinine' comment came prior to the beginning of Kal's downslide, so it is actually a reasonable representation of his attitude at 'baseline', so to speak, at least when interacting with lighteyes.  We only really see him being more cheerful and positive with Bridge Four or Syl - debatably with Shallan in the chasm scenes, but that's a bit of a stretch given it's a crisis situation.  He may not be at his lowest point by the end of the book, but I very much doubt he's lost that 'acerbic' quality entirely, or even mostly.

[Aleksiel]

Kal is lighteyes now, so he'll have to give lighteyes more credit. He already respects both Dalinar and Shallan, even likes Adolin and Renarin. Perhaps as a Kholin and a Radiant, Jasnah will gain some additional points in advance. He already thought good of her when Shallan told him how she reacted to Shallan stealing her fabrial, so he knows Jasnah isn't an example of what he hates in lighteyes.

 

There are many potential conflicts between Jasnah and Kaladin, which is what would make them such an interesting couple. There are also enough similarities to make them work. I don't see it as more unlikely than Kal/Shallan pairing. Jasnah will appreciate his clever tongue the same way she did with Shallan. He will find out that he and Shallan weren't the only people in the world who has suffered much, so he'll see the beauty in Jasnah as well. Remember that prior WoR Shallan and Kal seemed unlikely to get along and now she's the leading match for him. So, the same thing might happen between Jasnah and Kal.

 

It's more of a fan-shipping rather than theory shipping at this point, but it's not impossible.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Iarwainiel I she/her]

If there had been a poll choice for "No one," I would have selected that - I have a feeling that Kaladin will ultimately sacrifice himself for the cause and die a single man.

The fact that Kaladin killed Shallan's beloved brother Helaran seems unforgivable enough that a Shal/Kal pairing would be nigh impossible.

I'm hoping he and Shallan will be more truly brother-and-sister (and Brandon can surely pull it off way better than JK Rowling tried to do with Harry & Hermione). I think that kind of quasi-family relationship would be healthy for both of them, and it would add a diverse dynamic to all the relationships. During the chasm sequence, I kept thinking that it would be "of honor" for Kaladin to try to make up for the brother that he unknowingly stole from Shallan.

Also - Jasnah is about 35, which is a little old for Kaladin, while Lift at 13 is probably a tad too young, at least for how these books usually go

[maxal she/her]

If there had been a poll choice for "No one," I would have selected that - I have a feeling that Kaladin will ultimately sacrifice himself for the cause and die a single man.

The fact that Kaladin killed Shallan's beloved brother Helaran seems unforgivable enough that a Shal/Kal pairing would be nigh impossible.

I'm hoping he and Shallan will be more truly brother-and-sister (and Brandon can surely pull it off way better than JK Rowling tried to do with Harry & Hermione). I think that kind of quasi-family relationship would be healthy for both of them, and it would add a diverse dynamic to all the relationships. During the chasm sequence, I kept thinking that it would be "of honor" for Kaladin to try to make up for the brother that he unknowingly stole from Shallan.

Also - Jasnah is about 35, which is a little old for Kaladin, while Lift at 13 is probably a tad too young, at least for how these books usually go

 

For now I agree with the "No One" option as I do not think any current female character fit Kaladin.

 

The only thing Kal and Jasnah have in common is being smart and even that is not quite it. Jasnah is a scholar and a researcher whereas Kal is a warrior with a background in surgery that made him more learned than the average man. Kal would never be able to keep up with Jasnah long and boring theories on theology/history. He does not have that kind of smart. He has the kind of smart that tries to think, to analyses the problem and then find a solution, much like a surgeon. He is very pragmatist. He is not the type to go dig in old books forever in hopes of finding some glimmer of information nor he is the type to discover some long lost city. Also, as you said, Jasnah is about 15 years older than Kal and that pretty much kills it, that and being a very high ranked proper brighlady who is quite snotty. Really a bad match.

[Seloun]

 

The fact that Kaladin killed Shallan's beloved brother Helaran seems unforgivable enough that a Shal/Kal pairing would be nigh impossible.

I'm hoping he and Shallan will be more truly brother-and-sister (and Brandon can surely pull it off way better than JK Rowling tried to do with Harry & Hermione). I think that kind of quasi-family relationship would be healthy for both of them, and it would add a diverse dynamic to all the relationships. During the chasm sequence, I kept thinking that it would be "of honor" for Kaladin to try to make up for the brother that he unknowingly stole from Shallan.

 

The fact that Kaladin killed Helaran is unlikely to be an issue in of itself. When Shallan thinks about the situation believing Amaram was the killer, her reaction is surprisingly ambivalent:

 

 

Shallan felt an immediate anger at seeing her brother’s murderer here, but found that it had quieted somewhat. A smoldering loathing instead of an intense hatred. It had been a long time since she’d seen Helaran, now. And Balat had a point in that her older brother had abandoned them.

 

To try to kill this man, apparently— or so she’d been able to put together from what she’d read of Amaram and his Shardblade. Why had Helaran gone to kill this man? And could she really blame Amaram when, in truth, he’d probably just been defending himself?

 

She felt like she knew so little. Though Amaram was still a bastard, of course.

 

Yes, she's angry at her brother's killer, but she also immediately rationalizes reasons for why Helaran's death might be justified. It's pretty clear that Shallan feels somewhat abandoned by her brother, too. If Kaladin has an opportunity to explain the circumstances of Helaran's death, I just don't think it would be something she's hold against him.

 

What will probably be an issue however is that Shallan will likely learn about Kaladin's involvement in Helaran's death in a way that makes it looks like Kaladin was deliberately misleading her. Note that Shallan has multiple opportunities where she could have plausibly have found about Kaladin being Helaran's killer during WoR (arena, chasm, and Dalinar's trick on Amaram - in each case she is present or in the case of the last, literally riding by as it occurs). Now Kaladin is leaving Urithiru and likely out of communication (or of limited communication) for a while; this seems pretty clearly a set up to generate misunderstanding about the circumstances of Helaran's death. That Shallan will find out shortly after Kaladin leaves is practically a given - it's almost a miracle that she doesn't know about it already.

 

What all this setup indicates is that there are plans for some kind of deep relationship between Shallan and Kaladin (not necessarily romantic); this is because without that sort of relationship, this sort of drama doesn't have much of an impact. Look at Shallan's reaction to Amaram, who she has no particular feelings for one way or another outside of being presumed killer of Helaran - her anger towards him is almost rote, with the comment at the end ('Though Amaram was still a bastard, of course') almost sounds like a perfunctory punch clock reaction more than legitimate distress. It's a lot of work setting up this plot line to not have a much stronger pay off.

 

 

The only thing Kal and Jasnah have in common is being smart and even that is not quite it. Jasnah is a scholar and a researcher whereas Kal is a warrior with a background in surgery that made him more learned than the average man. Kal would never be able to keep up with Jasnah long and boring theories on theology/history. He does not have that kind of smart. He has the kind of smart that tries to think, to analyses the problem and then find a solution, much like a surgeon. He is very pragmatist. He is not the type to go dig in old books forever in hopes of finding some glimmer of information nor he is the type to discover some long lost city. Also, as you said, Jasnah is about 15 years older than Kal and that pretty much kills it, that and being a very high ranked proper brighlady who is quite snotty. Really a bad match.

 

I don't really agree with this assessment. While we don't really see Kaladin do much 'on screen' regarding abstract thinking, it's pretty clear that he's being set up to have such talents (e.g. Shallan's shilling about Kaladin immediately before and during the chasm scene). Kaladin certainly isn't currently as knowledgeable as Jasnah or even Shallan, but that's mostly due to the Vorin culture and his circumstances; note that Shallan had a similar problem in TWoK (at least by Jasnah's estimation) but ultimately temperament and passion carry the day.

 

It's also unclear that Jasnah is necessarily looking for someone who is a mirror of her. She has a great deal of respect for both Dalinar and (her view of) Taravangian, neither of whom are supposed to be scholars or thought to be particularly brilliant, because they are good people by her estimation. It's unlikely that Jasnah would have a negative view of Kaladin given that he's clearly intelligent and highly moral.

 

That said, I think Jasnah's relationship with Kaladin would be much like her relationship with Shallan - more of a mentor-pupil relationship than romantic. Many of the qualities that Jasnah appreciates in Shallan are possessed by Kaladin as well. It'd also be interesting (and likely rather useful for Kaladin) to see Jasnah discuss/mentor Kaladin about morality; given the nature of Kaladin's powers, he has a very practical reason to be concerned about morality and ethics.

[maxal she/her]

This has me thinking, do you think Kal is starting to be a bit too much? I mean, the guy is an unbeatable warrior, he saves the day not once, not twice, but five times. I mean taking down a CHASMFIELD all by himself without his surges? Even Dalinar wouldn't manage. He is an accomplished surgeon who despite his shorten training appears to be as good as the most experienced ones. He is smarter than all characters, some even place him at the Jasnah level who probably is one of the smartest person in Roshar.

 

His path to KR was the hardest, the most pain filled and the most tearful to read.

 

He is only 20 years old.

 

Fine, he also is moody, grumpy and distrustful, but still.....

 

OK, this is slightly out of subject, but this last post had me wondering. Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Kaladin and I cheered with him each time, but isn't the guy starting to be a bit too good in everything?

[aenfear he/him]

I thought his father had trained him for years, which is pretty much enough. He also didn't take down the chasmfiend alone, Shallan helped him.

[maxal she/her]

I thought his father had trained him for years, which is pretty much enough. He also didn't take down the chasmfiend alone, Shallan helped him.

 

Yes but still, he was 15 when he left. It is impossible for a 15 years old, trained solely by his father who is the surgeon of a small remote unimportant town, to be as pro efficient as masters who trained in the higher learning places and practiced for years.

 

Kal never finished his training and by far, but the way Sanderson is writing him, it feels like he already is a great surgeon.

[aenfear he/him]

Still, I don't remember when he started learning as a surgeon but there are at least 5 years. And after that he was in 2 wars where he could use all the thing he learned and master them better.

[Aleksiel]

Every child seems great to their parents. Kaladin likely continued his medical practice in Amaram's army. Doing bandages and knowing herbs isn't that unimaginable and special.  Of course he seems like a great surgeon to the rest of the Bridge Four, they have nobody to compare him to. Kaladin is very knowledgeable, he has good memory and analytic mind, but we haven't see him in much medical action. We don't really know if he could perform any complicated surgery. What we've seen him do (burning wounds to prevent infection, binding broken leg, etc) is to be expected of someone who had years of medical training regardless of their age.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Just popping back in quickly to drop a few comments:

For now I agree with the "No One" option as I do not think any current female character fit Kaladin.

 
(bold mine) I'll admit, I laughed. I agree, Maxal. And there's such an easy solution to that. But I won't drag you all through that again, hehe.

This has me thinking, do you think Kal is starting to be a bit too much? I mean, the guy is an unbeatable warrior, he saves the day not once, not twice, but five times. I mean taking down a CHASMFIELD all by himself without his surges? Even Dalinar wouldn't manage. He is an accomplished surgeon who despite his shorten training appears to be as good as the most experienced ones. He is smarter than all characters, some even place him at the Jasnah level who probably is one of the smartest person in Roshar.
 
His path to KR was the hardest, the most pain filled and the most tearful to read.
 
He is only 20 years old.
 
Fine, he also is moody, grumpy and distrustful, but still.....
 
OK, this is slightly out of subject, but this last post had me wondering. Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Kaladin and I cheered with him each time, but isn't the guy starting to be a bit too good in everything?

 
Whew, here I'll disagree, at least at the part of his path being the hardest to read. I'll say this: yes, Kaladin's had a hard life, but I've never had anything more difficult to read than Shallan's backstory. You can hear me on Splintercast, just moaning through every flashback chapter. "It's so well-written, but it's so difficult to push myself through." Like, I don't have an abusive family (my family is wonderful, and I'm blessed to call them mine) but I could hardly bear to read some of the awful things that Shallan has been through. 
 
As for Kaladin, I think his "moody and grumpy" part is where his character gets interesting. His canonical clinical depression and seasonal affective disorder make him a very rich and complex character in my opinion. I think it's something incredible that Brandon's doing here, even just aside from having a neuroatypical character. Because you're right, Kaladin is very skilled in many ways, yet those ways don't seem to make his life much easier.
 
In fact, during the early events of WoK, they almost seem to make things worse. Kaladin keeps talking about how he's the one who survives when everyone else doesn't. He recognizes his own skill as part of what's keeping him alive in these situations, but it feels worthless to him, because he isn't skilled enough to save those around him. It almost seems to him like a curse. If he were unskilled, he wouldn't blame himself, but because he knows that he's a good spearman and is good with medicine, it seems cruel that he still cannot succeed at the things which matter most to him.
 

There always seemed to be a reason Kaladin survived when those he’d tried to help died. Some men might have seen that as a blessing, but he saw it as an ironic kind of torment.

 

Kaladin lived when everyone else died. Was that the work of some spren from Damnation, toying with him like a windspren, but infinitely more nefarious? Letting him think that he might be able to do some good, then killing everyone he tried to help? There were supposed to be thousands of kinds of spren, many that people never saw or didn’t know about. Syl followed him. Could some kind of evil spren be doing the same?
 
A very disturbing thought.

 
Even after he accepts that he's probably not supernaturally cursed, he then realizes that it does come down to the fact that it is his skill alone, or lack thereof which has caused all of these "failures," and that with a little more effort perhaps, he could have saved them.
 

“That was amazing,” Kaladin said to Syl. “What I did with the arrows.”
 
“Still think you’re cursed?

“No. I know I’m not.” He looked up at the overcast sky. “But that means the failures were all just me. I let Tien die, I failed my spearmen, the slaves I tried to rescue, Tarah…” He hadn’t thought of her in some time. His failure with her had been different from the others, but a failure it was nonetheless. “If there’s no curse or bad luck, no god above being angry at me—I have to live with knowing that with a little more eff ort—a little more practice or skill—I could have saved them."
 
Syl frowned more deeply. “Kaladin, you need to get over this. Those things aren’t your fault.”
 
“That’s what my father always used to say.” He smiled faintly. “‘Overcome your guilt, Kaladin. Care, but not too much. Take responsibility, but don’t blame yourself.’ Protect, save, help—but know when to give up. They’re such precarious ledges to walk. How do I do it?”

I really think it's interesting that Kaladin's skills and talents, of which he does have so very many, are being used to cause him problems and are a source of character conflict for him. It's really a very clever thing to do and I absolutely applaud Brandon for it.

[Greywatch she/her]

Well, maxal, I can't say I agree that Jasnah is "quite snotty". She's to-the-point, even abrupt, but because she has a lot of demands on her time. When we see her point of view being challenged, she doesn't condescend to her verbal opponents, but treats them as an equal, even respectfully. When she disagrees with someone, she doesn't shut them down, but she engages with their perspective. I personally don't share Jasnah's perspective on a lot of things, but I never felt attacked or the slightest bit insulted by how she's written. I wouldn't call her snotty at all.

Now, I don't really ship Kaladin/Jasnah at all - I agree that the age gap is a little much. But I also think she would give Kaladin a baseline level of respect as an equal, seeing as they share a common cause and are in a similar position as new Radiants.

[Aleksiel]

I really think it's interesting that Kaladin's skills and talents, of which he does have so very many, are being used to cause him problems and are a source of character conflict for him. It's really a very clever thing to do and I absolutely applaud Brandon for it.

 

This kind of reminds me of Gandalf - he used his magic to save the fellowship once, then disappeared, creating a bigger problem for the group. Kaladin used his skills to save young boys and his brightlord, but that only created a bigger problem, because he got enslaved and so on.

 

It's an interesting comparison I haven't thought of. Until Kal's extraordinary skills were explained, he couldn't use them to solve a problem without creating a bigger one. Fits one of Brandon's magic laws.

[shawnhargreaves he/him]

As for Kaladin, I think his "moody and grumpy" part is where his character gets interesting. His canonical clinical depression and seasonal affective disorder make him a very rich and complex character in my opinion. I think it's something incredible that Brandon's doing here, even just aside from having a neuroatypical character.

 

Word!

 

I started writing a long reply here about how much I love the way Brandon is dealing with neuroatypical characters in this series, but realized it was off topic for this thread, plus I wish we would all talk more about this so I'm going to start a new thread instead.

[xianpoxi]

 

Also guys, please stop ignoring the possibility of bisexuality in characters. This isn't even because I think Brandon will or won't do something, but when you ignore that and just say "Kaladin isn't gay" you also are ignoring those of us who are neither straight or gay. 

 

Yep, I'm completely ignoring your sex life as it has nothing to do with me. I hope you will also completely ignore my sex life also as it has nothing to do with you.

 

Oh yeah, Kaladin isn't gay. It seems rather clear in the story that he's straight. 

 

Everyone can feel free to entertain the fantasies of whatever character relationships they want, but its seems rather inconsistent with the story and characters. When your break that continuity it hurts a story. You lose the willing suspension of disbelief from your audience.

[xianpoxi]

Shallan had instant chemistry with both Adolin and Kaladin. However, the shape of is was different both ways. The chemistry with Kaladin was more subtle. Both Kaladin and Shallan lost their usual control towards each other. Their is an underlying intimacy and familiarity between them that existed before they could really get to know each other at all.

 

The chemistry between Shallan and Adolin was more traditional. There was an instant outward attraction and all the butterflies of puppy love. It also seems to be growing in a healthy direction thru their dates. They are both enjoying each other's company and supporting and learning about one another. Adolin may need to step up a bit more in this regard though. He is mostly just being himself. His efforts to protect Shallan are natural and gallant, but misplaced in Shallan's case, through no fault of his own. He does appear to have the capacity to protect Shallan in exactly the way she needs however, the challenge will be him recognizing it.

 

 

Shallan has been the spiritual protector of her Father and Brother's for a large chunk of her life. Who will be her support in these things? Adolin has the strength to be that for her, but will he have the tact?

 

Also adjusting to the idea of Shallan being more powerful than he could be quite a challenge for him. He's starting to realize that, and he seems positive, but the practical implications could build up on him.

 

 

There is also a mutual respect and admiration between both Shallan and Adolin and Shallan and Kaladin. Although Kaladin only gains that respect for Shallan as He learns she really has faced down the Helplessness and despair which Kaladin is struggling with.

 

 

I don't think a romantic relationship between Shallan and Kaladin will cement unless Adolin dies. It could very well be that the relationship spoils, but I don't think it will. Adolin and Shallan both have a strong sense of duty if nothing else. they will keep to their bonds. I think Shallan will not hold Adolin's murder of Sadeus against him. Although I can't say the same of Adolin holding Shallan's killing of her parents against her. Matricide and Patricide are far scarier accusations in this society methinks. Shallan's past has some real challanges for Adolin.

 

 

If Adolin dies and a relationship pushes forward between Shallan and Kaladin, then it would seem parallel to the pattern of Navani and Dalinar. Also in the point that Dalinar's intensity frightened Navani as a younger woman similar to Kaladin's intensity intimidating Shallan.

 

 

I've toyed with the idea of romantic feelings between Kaladin and Jasnah, though Its HIGHLY unlikely imo. I think that moreso, I'm just excited to see how they act when they meet. They have such strong personalities and intensity that I expect them to clash in some way.

 

 

Similar to the frustration that instantly grew between Kaladin and Shallan. However Kaladin is not likely to get under Jasnah's skin so completely. It could just as likely be all cool on the outside with a mutual respect for one another.

 

 

Jasnah is also Alethkar's only feminist. She's either doesn't like men at all (and I wouldn't be surprised if she had a subtle romantic relationship with another woman.) OR she'll be completely swept off her feet when she finally meets the right one.

 

 

 

Laral was not in the list. She and Kaladin had romantic feelings as teenagers for each other. Their timing was mismatched and that ship has largely sailed w/ Laral probably being married off to Roshone (Poor girl!)(not to mention throwing Kaladin under the bus when spending time w/ Roshone's son).

 

However, Kaladin is now returning to Hearthstone in great glory! AS A LIGHTEYES! You can't say Laral won't be feeling some regret and hope for Kaladin when he arrives. Will the tragedy of her circumstances pluck at the protective behaviors in Kaladin? I don't think it will be the relationship for Kaladin, but it will be some drama.

 

 

 

What would also be interesting to see is how many other women will start to take more interest in Kaladin or if he will remain too far out of reach. Kaladin the Soldier wasn't around many women while fighting, or he was too focused on soldiering and protecting to even notice them. This pattern didn't change w/ Kaladin the Bridgeman slave, though Being a bridgeman and slave would have kept anyone away. Captain of the Guard would have made him MUCH more interesting, but come on its a war camp... There are light-eyed nobility who would only see the Darkeyes Captain as an Oddity and most darkeyes in the camps are solider families already. The Parshendi war has ended now. Even though there is likely much fighting to come, it doesn't have the same feeling as a war between nations and peoples. Its now an Apocalypse type war. I don't think the Alethi war codes will be maintained. IN the face of Apocolypse, people want their families. Poeple fight, but try to live life as much they can while they can.

There are also alot of widows from the warcamps now. Kaladin became lighteyes, so how many women will be interested in Kaladin now? I think at least some ambitious opportunists would. OR do his circumstances still make him too intimidating? the contrast of Lighteyes/darkeyes, Slave & Radiant? and his own sheer intensity and focus.

 

 

 

Finally the OTHER that I really wanted to mention is Syl. Yes, this seems unlikely to me the way Brandon has written it. BUT In one way the Spren share a VERY intimate relationship with their Radiants. On the other they seem so overlooked by them at times.

 

Kaladin often doesn't take Syl seriously. That may have changed greatly thru her "death" and restoration. The more the bond progresses the more human the spren become. She is his constant companion. How far will she change?

 

 

Someone else already mentioned how that could affect a relationship. What happens when your spouse has an invisible person with them all the time? intimately connected... (reminiscent of Ender and his wife in Children of the Mind)

 

Its likely that Spren will remain sufficiently alien from people that a romantic relationship would not develop. However, the potential exists methinks and it certainly has potential to affect a romantic relationship. I wouldn't be surprised if Kaladin never develops a Romance with the way this is going so far.

Edited May 6, 2014 by xianpoxi

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

You might want to break your thoughts into paragraphs in the future @Xianpoxi. That giant block of text is a bit intimidating.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Yeah, it was hard to read, But he did have a lot of good points. I believe it was I who mentioned the Sly Problem some time ago.

[Shaggai]

Yep, I'm completely ignoring your sex life as it has nothing to do with me. I hope you will also completely ignore my sex life also as it has nothing to do with you.

 

Oh yeah, Kaladin isn't gay. It seems rather clear in the story that he's straight. 

 

Everyone can feel free to entertain the fantasies of whatever character relationships they want, but its seems rather inconsistent with the story and characters. When your break that continuity it hurts a story. You lose the willing suspension of disbelief from your audience.

The point is that we don't know for sure that Kaladin isn't into men as well as women. We haven't seen him in romantic contexts very much, and we have absolutely no idea as to Vorin beliefs on homosexuality.

[Abalidoth]

Yep, I'm completely ignoring your sex life as it has nothing to do with me. I hope you will also completely ignore my sex life also as it has nothing to do with you.

 

There's a very big difference between respecting someone's privacy, and willfully refusing to empathize with them. You're falling to the latter, here.